Democratic 2020 Presidential Primary Thread

[snafu]

22 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Absolutely.

 

Once again, I will vote for ANY of these candidates over Trump.

 

He's just awful.

 

Two things (I didn't want to quote you twice but I'm responding to two things you said).

 

(1) I don't think the Democratic party wants Bernie or Beto or Biden to ultimately prevail. Their success cuts against the identity politics that the left thinks is successful for them. 

 

(2) Regarding the above quoted post, would you honestly say that about any other incumbent Republican President against any of the Democratic candidates you've spoken about?

 

 

[transplantbillsfan]

13 minutes ago, keepthefaith said:

 

Real world math is that the U.S. is the nation that has most reduced carbon emissions over the past 10 years.  Real world math is that if we do nothing other than let current on the books regulations continue, the U.S. will continue to reduce those emissions.  Real world math is that if there is a concern over carbon emissions, the nations that are not reducing emissions should be more pressured to do so. 

 

Real world math is that we're also the 2nd highest producer of carbon emissions in the world.  We've reduced the most largely because of how much we need to reduce.  You don't say that a 500 pound person who loses 100 pounds is all good just because he lost 100 pounds... he's still 400 lbs!!!

 

Those environmental regulations you refer to are widely the same ones the Trump administration is trying to scrap or tweak so there can be easy loopholes, anyway.

 

"They're not being good, so why should I be good?"

 

Wonderful logic

 

13 minutes ago, keepthefaith said:

 

I've yet to hear a Dem in this political cycle refer to the facts and actual numbers on this topic.  Instead they would have us believe (along with their media partners) that the U.S. is a highly irresponsible polluter with upward spiraling emissions and that we must act on our own in dire fashion to avoid catastrophic damage to the entire planet and all of mankind.

 

There honestly should be absolutely no reason for any Democrat (or Republican, for that matter) to bring in ANY facts or actual numbers regarding global warming.  There is scientific consensus that Global Warming is real and that mankind is largely the cause of it.  The fact that you actually believe that a political candidate needs to convince the general public that the US and mankind as a whole is negatively impacting our environment is one of the greatest (and most diabolical) political magic tricks the Republican party has pulled out of its hat over the last few decades.

 

[transplantbillsfan]

4 minutes ago, snafu said:

 

Two things (I didn't want to quote you twice but I'm responding to two things you said).

 

(1) I don't think the Democratic party wants Bernie or Beto or Biden to ultimately prevail. Their success cuts against the identity politics that the left thinks is successful for them. 

 

I don't really know about this.  I think you're mixing the Democratic party and liberal media together.  We'll see, but I think Biden would pretty much be the serious frontrunner already if not for his extreme hesitance to get in the race, which I don't like and I think has hurt him as a candidate more than this stupid "me-too" spillover that's come out in the last couple weeks.

 

4 minutes ago, snafu said:

 

(2) Regarding the above quoted post, would you honestly say that about any other incumbent Republican President against any of the Democratic candidates you've spoken about?

 

Not necessarily, though I'd need kind of a case by case basis.

[Teddy KGB]

Oh boy.     We got a climate guy ???

[transplantbillsfan]

5 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

Oh boy.     We got a climate guy ???

 

Yes, you do.

 

As one who plans to spend much of my free time doing ocean activities for the rest of his life, I indeed am a "climate guy..." especially with some of what I get to see in changes to the ocean and her reefs first-hand.

Edited April 11, 2019 by transplantbillsfan

[Teddy KGB]

Just now, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Yes, you do.

 

As one who plans to spend much of my free time doing ocean activities for the rest of his life, I indeed am a "climate guy..." especially with some of what I get to see in changes first-hand.

 

The sea anemones that speak French now kinda trip me out too brah.  

[RochesterRob]

2 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

What is the extreme suffering you think will occur and is it worse than the consequences of what's happening now with a bunch of Climate Deniers in the White House?

  People paying the taxes to pay for these environmental initiatives leaving them less money for their own expenses.  Trying to live on the amount of calories needed to sustain a sparrow.  Running the thermostat at 45 degrees F during the winter or 87 degrees during the summer because you can't afford to pay enough to live comfortably.  

  The other possibility is the government runs the printing presses to pay for the environmental initiatives bringing on crippling inflation to consumers.

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, RochesterRob said:

  People paying the taxes to pay for these environmental initiatives leaving them less money for their own expenses.  Trying to live on the amount of calories needed to sustain a sparrow.  Running the thermostat at 45 degrees F during the winter or 87 degrees during the summer because you can't afford to pay enough to live comfortably.  

  The other possibility is the government runs the printing presses to pay for the environmental initiatives bringing on crippling inflation to consumers.

 

Ridiculous hyperbole 

 

(other than living in 87 degrees during the Summer. I live in that without AC a huge chunk of the year living in the tropics.)

 

And I thought you guys were all about serious and thoughtful discussion over here in PPP.

[DC Tom]

2 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

I don't really know about this.  I think you're mixing the Democratic party and liberal media together.  We'll see, but I think Biden would pretty much be the serious frontrunner already if not for his extreme hesitance to get in the race, which I don't like and I think has hurt him as a candidate more than this stupid "me-too" spillover that's come out in the last couple weeks.

 

 

Not necessarily, though I'd need kind of a case by case basis.

 

Very articulate and well-spoken.

[BeginnersMind]

3 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

And I thought you guys were all about serious and thoughtful discussion over here in PPP.

 

Source?

[DC Tom]

Just now, BeginnersMind said:

 

Source?

 

I'm guessing not your ***** poetry slams.

[4merper4mer]

2 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Yes, you do.

 

As one who plans to spend much of my free time doing ocean activities for the rest of his life, I indeed am a "climate guy..." especially with some of what I get to see in changes to the ocean and her reefs first-hand.

The ocean is a broad?

[BeginnersMind]

4 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

I'm guessing not your ***** poetry slams.

 

Your one word insults no doubt lead him to the conclusion...

 

O Captain! My Captain!

our fearful trip is done,
The ship has weather’d every rack, the prize we sought is won,
The port is near, the bells I hear, the people all exulting,
While follow eyes the steady keel, the vessel grim and daring;
                         But O heart! heart! heart!
                            O the bleeding drops of red,
                               Where on the deck my Captain lies,
                                  Fallen cold and dead.

O Captain! my Captain! rise up and hear the bells;
Rise up—for you the flag is flung—for you the bugle trills,
For you bouquets and ribbon’d wreaths—for you the shores a-crowding,
For you they call, the swaying mass, their eager faces turning;
                         Here Captain! dear father!
                            This arm beneath your head!
                               It is some dream that on the deck,
                                 You’ve fallen cold and dead.

My Captain does not answer, his lips are pale and still,
My father does not feel my arm, he has no pulse nor will,
The ship is anchor’d safe and sound, its voyage closed and done,
From fearful trip the victor ship comes in with object won;
                         Exult O shores, and ring O bells!
                            But I with mournful tread,
                               Walk the deck my Captain lies,
                                  Fallen cold and dead.
-WW

 

 

Edited April 11, 2019 by BeginnersMind

[DC Tom]

11 minutes ago, BeginnersMind said:

 

Your one word insults no doubt lead him to the conclusion...

 

O Captain! My Captain!

our fearful trip is done,
The ship has weather’d every rack, the prize we sought is won,
The port is near, the bells I hear, the people all exulting,
While follow eyes the steady keel, the vessel grim and daring;
                         But O heart! heart! heart!
                            O the bleeding drops of red,
                               Where on the deck my Captain lies,
                                  Fallen cold and dead.

O Captain! my Captain! rise up and hear the bells;
Rise up—for you the flag is flung—for you the bugle trills,
For you bouquets and ribbon’d wreaths—for you the shores a-crowding,
For you they call, the swaying mass, their eager faces turning;
                         Here Captain! dear father!
                            This arm beneath your head!
                               It is some dream that on the deck,
                                 You’ve fallen cold and dead.

My Captain does not answer, his lips are pale and still,
My father does not feel my arm, he has no pulse nor will,
The ship is anchor’d safe and sound, its voyage closed and done,
From fearful trip the victor ship comes in with object won;
                         Exult O shores, and ring O bells!
                            But I with mournful tread,
                               Walk the deck my Captain lies,
                                  Fallen cold and dead.
-WW

 

 

 

I am the one who knocks.

 

- the better WW.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

2 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Yes, you do.

 

As one who plans to spend much of my free time doing ocean activities for the rest of his life, I indeed am a "climate guy..." especially with some of what I get to see in changes to the ocean and her reefs first-hand.

What constitutes 'ocean activity', and if I understand you correctly you live in the tropics and only use AC when absolutely necessary?  

[keepthefaith]

3 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

 

 

 

There honestly should be absolutely no reason for any Democrat (or Republican, for that matter) to bring in ANY facts or actual numbers regarding global warming.  There is scientific consensus that Global Warming is real and that mankind is largely the cause of it.  The fact that you actually believe that a political candidate needs to convince the general public that the US and mankind as a whole is negatively impacting our environment is one of the greatest (and most diabolical) political magic tricks the Republican party has pulled out of its hat over the last few decades.

 

 

That climate change is largely caused by man's activities and that a change in man's activities can stop or reverse it is far from settled science but for the sake of discussion, let's agree that man needs to clean up his/her/their act.  You don't think lawmakers who want to change laws and who disagree on how to change the laws should make a factual case to support their proposed changes?  We as a voting public should simply vote for them based on positions supported merely by soundbites and accept whatever changes they enact?  We shouldn't expect or require better information? 

 

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

What constitutes 'ocean activity', and if I understand you correctly you live in the tropics and only use AC when absolutely necessary?  

 

Surfing primarily with occasional swimming and diving.

 

And I don't have AC at home. My wife and I have never had AC here in all the time we've been together. Life is better in boardshorts, anyway. 2 years ago I got AC installed in my classroom after our school got solar panels installed on the roof, but before that no AC in my classroom, either. And there are still a number of schools here still without it.

[transplantbillsfan]

23 minutes ago, keepthefaith said:

 

That climate change is largely caused by man's activities and that a change in man's activities can stop or reverse it is far from settled science but for the sake of discussion, let's agree that man needs to clean up his/her/their act.  You don't think lawmakers who want to change laws and who disagree on how to change the laws should make a factual case to support their proposed changes?  We as a voting public should simply vote for them based on positions supported merely by soundbites and accept whatever changes they enact?  We shouldn't expect or require better information? 

 

 

Lawmakers can make their cases, but the scientific evidence of Global Warming is overwhelming. It shouldn't even be something politicians need to bicker over in terms of whether it's happening or not because it simply is and there's scientific consensus that man is one of if not the primary catalyst.

 

One can argue over degrees and what should be done... I get that.

 

But the fact that a huge chunk of the Republican party has fought tooth and nail to deny it for decades is just sad.

 

These are the people who care so much about wealth and how much they can pass onto their kids and grandkids but don't give a crap about the state of the environment they're passing down, and it's just one of the pieces of hypocrisy that sickens me about the Republican party. Another, of course, is the old adage that Republicans want to keep the Government out of our lives, except for when it comes to the bedroom.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Go ahead, list the inevitable hypocrisy you're gearing up to list about Democrats now.

 

[Doc Brown]

 

[BeginnersMind]

4 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Lawmakers can make their cases, but the scientific evidence of Global Warming is overwhelming. It shouldn't even be something politicians need to bicker over in terms of whether it's happening or not because it simply is and there's scientific consensus that man is one of if not the primary catalyst.

 

One can argue over degrees and what should be done... I get that.

 

But the fact that a huge chunk of the Republican party has fought tooth and nail to deny it for decades is just sad.

 

These are the people who care so much about wealth and how much they can pass onto their kids and grandkids but don't give a crap about the state of the environment they're passing down, and it's just one of the pieces of hypocrisy that sickens me about the Republican party. Another, of course, is the old adage that Republicans want to keep the Government out of our lives, except for when it comes to the bedroom.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Go ahead, list the inevitable hypocrisy you're gearing up to list about Democrats now.

 

 

There’s a million page thread here mocking climate change science. This board has it all figured out already.