The Draft Network - Josh Allen's Struggles Go Beyond Lackluster Supporting Cast

[The Frankish Reich]

6 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Josh Allen was drafted as a 29-year old who started 2 full years at Oklahoma State? News to me.

Both guys who got kind of a late start, Allen because he was overlooked by scouts, Weeden because he was a baseball player, so both were considered very raw at the time they were drafted. Both have cannon arms. Bot are big and exceptional athletes - Allen is certainly faster, but Weeden was no slouch in terms of athleticism. Look, I don't want Allen to have Brandon Weeden's career, but there is a reasonable likelihood that that will happen. 

 

EDIT: I can't believe how selective memories can be, or maybe how much in denial certain people are.

Brandon Weeden's first start was awful. His second start? 26 for 37, 2 TD, 0 INT, 114.9 QB rating in a shootout with the Bengals. In a couple other threads I've reminded people that EJ Manuel had his moments (and true believers too) in his first year. The fact is that most 1st round QB picks don't become future HOFers or even future franchise QBs. I'm fine with what I see from Allen so far - he's exactly what we expected. You see the talent, the energy, and ... the inability to read defenses and the inaccuracy in some of his throws. But chances are he won't be the next Rodgers or Wentz. Chances are he'll be somewhere between the Weeden and Bortles fat part of the bell curve. That's just reality.

Edited October 12, 2018 by The Frankish Reich

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

20 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

We're you saying this for Nate Peterman? 

We are you saying?  

 

If your going to troll at least spell "Were" correctly 

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, TwistofFate said:

Was Tyrod going to be cut before his bonus if Buffalo hadn't found a trade partner? 

We actually do not know that.....and at the end of the day it may have been better if they didnt so that Josh Allen could get the red shirt year he needed....but hey....for those of you with crystal balls

1 hour ago, TwistofFate said:

 

Yes

 

They simply found someone to give them a return where they otherwise would have gotten nothing. 

Reports are there was at least one other offer out there for Tyrod Taylor.....so this is probably not true....but hey.....par for the course for you

1 hour ago, TwistofFate said:

 

Tyrod was good as gone this year. End of story. 

You absolutely do not know that.....

[CountDorkula]

10 hours ago, Mountain Man said:

Shock horror : The draft network don't like Allen. You mean the guys who were trashing Josh Allen more than anyone else before the draft, don't like him after. Wow.

To be fair, he has done very little to change anyone's mind.

[26CornerBlitz]

Marino is on WGR now discussing Allen and the article he wrote that's linked in the OP.

 

 

[Doc]

20 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

good analysis of this play (and Allen’s struggle reading a defense) by Erik Turner (Cover 1). 

 

LOL!  What does the analyst consider a "manageable" 3rd down?  Allen was looking to get more than just 5 yards by hitting Clay on that 2nd and 23 play.  Hitting him means 3rd and 18 which is far from manageable. 

Edited October 12, 2018 by Doc

[26CornerBlitz]

Taking an in-depth look at Josh Allen's rookie season thus far with @TheJoeMarino who joins Schopp & the Bulldog right now on the AT&T Hotline!

 

Marino - Just seems like his draft stock ascended, but we didn't see the ascension on the field. Experts just couldn't shake the game tape. All along we've been trying to tell people, this is a great physical talent at QB that needs a ton of work.

 

Marino - What kinda sucks for Josh Allen is his supporting cast is very underwhelming. The receiving core is a receiving core that no other team in the NFL would trade for.

 

Marino - You can't go back to Peterman. The best thing for Allen is to play and get those reps. Be exposed to so many different things.

 

Marino - Josh Allen deserves the opportunity to grow and develop, but he is behind the other rookies. Not worried about his mental toughness through that. He's ignored a lot of criticism in the last year.

 

Marino on Allen - I've focused in on him all year. This is bigger than just not having great players around him. There were reads that were simple and easy, and Josh wouldn't pull the trigger. You would expect an NFL QB to execute those.

 

Marino - Allen is limited by his supporting cast, but he is limiting them in turn.

 

Marino - Sean McDermott is the right coach for this team in this scenario. The enviroment & culture is really good. His buzz words & phrases really matter in building a football team.

 

Marino - His body language is really good. You can tell when he takes off with the football he's ready to compete. Not worried about that part of Allen.

 

Marino - Once you put the top rookie in, they're in. Once Kyle Orton came in, that was the end of EJ Manuel... This isn't a situation where the Bills should try to find a different plan at QB on the short term.

 

Marino on Allen's mechanics - A lot of over-striding with his feet. That's been a problem for his entire career. It really messes up his driving off his back foot and being consistent with his release point.

 

Marino - Baker Mayfield has been the cream of the crop. He's got that it factor on 3rd downs when he's under pressure. He's exactly what most thought he'd be based on his Oklahoma tape.

 

Marino - Thought Josh Rosen's debut was special. Hitting tight window throws with confidence.

 

Marino - Allen has helped find a way to win two football games. Especially taking off and running, but he'll have to start making big plays with his arm for that impact to be consistent.

 

Marino on Allen - He's never been a great thrower on the run. You'd think it could be a strength of his game, but he still needs to prove that.

 

Marino on the 2019 QB class - Really like Justin Herbert from Oregon. A lot of buzz though that he won't come out. Heard he's really committed to Oregon. He'd be the top QB.

 

Marino on Tyree Jackson - Don't want to bring Josh Allen into this again, but you see that. Freak athletic abilities, but you want to see more on the tape.

[Kemp]

When we have the 45th best quarterback in the NFL, why complain?

[26CornerBlitz]

3 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Taking an in-depth look at Josh Allen's rookie season thus far with @TheJoeMarino who joins Schopp & the Bulldog right now on the AT&T Hotline!

 

Marino - Just seems like his draft stock ascended, but we didn't see the ascension on the field. Experts just couldn't shake the game tape. All along we've been trying to tell people, this is a great physical talent at QB that needs a ton of work.

 

Marino - What kinda sucks for Josh Allen is his supporting cast is very underwhelming. The receiving core is a receiving core that no other team in the NFL would trade for. (core? corps or more accurately described as corpse)

 

Marino - You can't go back to Peterman. The best thing for Allen is to play and get those reps. Be exposed to so many different things.

 

Marino - Josh Allen deserves the opportunity to grow and develop, but he is behind the other rookies. Not worried about his mental toughness through that. He's ignored a lot of criticism in the last year.

 

Marino on Allen - I've focused in on him all year. This is bigger than just not having great players around him. There were reads that were simple and easy, and Josh wouldn't pull the trigger. You would expect an NFL QB to execute those.

 

Marino - Allen is limited by his supporting cast, but he is limiting them in turn.

 

Marino - Sean McDermott is the right coach for this team in this scenario. The enviroment & culture is really good. His buzz words & phrases really matter in building a football team.

 

Marino - His body language is really good. You can tell when he takes off with the football he's ready to compete. Not worried about that part of Allen.

 

Marino - Once you put the top rookie in, they're in. Once Kyle Orton came in, that was the end of EJ Manuel... This isn't a situation where the Bills should try to find a different plan at QB on the short term.

 

Marino on Allen's mechanics - A lot of over-striding with his feet. That's been a problem for his entire career. It really messes up his driving off his back foot and being consistent with his release point.

 

Marino - Baker Mayfield has been the cream of the crop. He's got that it factor on 3rd downs when he's under pressure. He's exactly what most thought he'd be based on his Oklahoma tape.

 

Marino - Thought Josh Rosen's debut was special. Hitting tight window throws with confidence.

 

Marino - Allen has helped find a way to win two football games. Especially taking off and running, but he'll have to start making big plays with his arm for that impact to be consistent.

 

Marino on Allen - He's never been a great thrower on the run. You'd think it could be a strength of his game, but he still needs to prove that.

 

Marino on the 2019 QB class - Really like Justin Herbert from Oregon. A lot of buzz though that he won't come out. Heard he's really committed to Oregon. He'd be the top QB.

 

Marino on Tyree Jackson - Don't want to bring Josh Allen into this again, but you see that. Freak athletic abilities, but you want to see more on the tape.

 

10-12: The Draft Network's Joe Marino Talks Josh Allen and More on WGR (20:57)

Edited October 13, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[John from Riverside]

4 hours ago, CountDorkula said:

To be fair, he has done very little to change anyone's mind.

Had a pretty good game against the Vikings

 

And still pretty early

3 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

10-12: The Draft Network's Joe Marino Talks Josh Allen and More on WGR (20:57)

So.....a raw qb is raw.....and getting no help from his team.

 

Is this the short version?

[26CornerBlitz]

6 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Had a pretty good game against the Vikings

 

And still pretty early

So.....a raw qb is raw.....and getting no help from his team.

 

Is this the short version?

 

There are quotes I included in his very fair albeit early snapshot assessment. 

[John from Riverside]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

There are quotes I included in his very fair albeit early snapshot assessment. 

I saw them

 

Yes they are fair

[zow2]

Hey, Allen did have that beauty of a sideline pass to Robert Foster which went right through Fosters arms!  Argh!  That was gonna be his highlight completion up to this point. His other deep throws have shown zero touch or accuracy.

[John from Riverside]

10 minutes ago, zow2 said:

Hey, Allen did have that beauty of a sideline pass to Robert Foster which went right through Fosters arms!  Argh!  That was gonna be his highlight completion up to this point. His other deep throws have shown zero touch or accuracy.

There are literally 2 other TD passes (both to KB) which should have been touchdowns that KB botched

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

I would give him 1 more half (against Houston) to show he can throw 2 or 3 passes in a row near a WR and if he can’t, I’m sitting him down. Allen is not ready. I like him, he’s exciting, he’s a guy I’m rooting for....He’s been terrible. No two ways about it. If Allen doesn’t make better throws in the first half against Houston I would play Anderson for the rest of the year. I never really wanted Allen to play this year, I think he needs time ...Play better or sit. I don’t subscribe to the not being able to pull him now. There are no rules. If he can’t handle it, you sit him. It’s really that simple. He has plenty of time to get it right.

[John from Riverside]

29 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I would give him 1 more half (against Houston) to show he can throw 2 or 3 passes in a row near a WR and if he can’t, I’m sitting him down. Allen is not ready. I like him, he’s exciting, he’s a guy I’m rooting for....He’s been terrible. No two ways about it. If Allen doesn’t make better throws in the first half against Houston I would play Anderson for the rest of the year. I never really wanted Allen to play this year, I think he needs time ...Play better or sit. I don’t subscribe to the not being able to pull him now. There are no rules. If he can’t handle it, you sit him. It’s really that simple. He has plenty of time to get it right.

LOL....just LOL

[Hapless Bills Fan]

54 minutes ago, zow2 said:

Hey, Allen did have that beauty of a sideline pass to Robert Foster which went right through Fosters arms!  Argh!  That was gonna be his highlight completion up to this point. His other deep throws have shown zero touch or accuracy.

 

A couple of his deep throws have been throw-aways IMO.  There was a deep pass to the corner of the endzone on a flea-flicker where Benjamin was double covered and Zay pretty tight.  I'm not sure if it was supposed to be a deep corner to Benj but silly if so - he can't run that far, that fast.  In any event, he wasn't exactly lighting his afterburners streaking down the field.

 

33 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I would give him 1 more half (against Houston) to show he can throw 2 or 3 passes in a row near a WR and if he can’t, I’m sitting him down. Allen is not ready. I like him, he’s exciting, he’s a guy I’m rooting for....He’s been terrible. No two ways about it. If Allen doesn’t make better throws in the first half against Houston I would play Anderson for the rest of the year. I never really wanted Allen to play this year, I think he needs time ...Play better or sit. I don’t subscribe to the not being able to pull him now. There are no rules. If he can’t handle it, you sit him. It’s really that simple. He has plenty of time to get it right.

 

Please don't sit by the phone waiting for Beane and Kim Pegula calling you to offer the HC gig

[zow2]

1 hour ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I would give him 1 more half (against Houston) to show he can throw 2 or 3 passes in a row near a WR and if he can’t, I’m sitting him down. Allen is not ready. I like him, he’s exciting, he’s a guy I’m rooting for....He’s been terrible. No two ways about it. If Allen doesn’t make better throws in the first half against Houston I would play Anderson for the rest of the year. I never really wanted Allen to play this year, I think he needs time ...Play better or sit. I don’t subscribe to the not being able to pull him now. There are no rules. If he can’t handle it, you sit him. It’s really that simple. He has plenty of time to get it right.

 

Nah. He’s either got to learn to swim now, or drown.  I can’t think of one recent example of a top 10. QB pick, that once starting was then benched...only then to come back and have a great career.  Once they start, ya gotta give them a couple seasons before pulling the plug.  Somehow this QB has led the team to two wins. Not sure how but it can’t be overlooked 

[BuffaloHokie13]

On 10/12/2018 at 12:29 AM, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Nah. Pretty much nothing about this is measureable. You can come up with one number but there are hundreds that factor in. It's all opinion. Educated opinion but opinion.

 

Peterman might still be very successful. The odds dipped after that recent game but it's not like Allen passed significantly better than Peterman did under the same circumstances. What Allen did in that game was run better.

In light of yesterday's developments,

MEASURABLE