The Draft Network - Josh Allen's Struggles Go Beyond Lackluster Supporting Cast

[DCOrange]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I believe Josh Rosen will be the best Quarterback from this class. That said, his 2nd half performance last week was atrocious.

 

He is getting far less help than people here like to pretend - Fitz has been dropping balls, the oline has been worse than ours and they can't get Johnson going at all. His best playmaker is the rookie Kirk. But he was really bad the 2nd half against San Fran and the more frustrated he got the worse he played. His first game and a half were pretty good though. 

 

Personally I have Allen 4th of 4 through this point of the season. That doesn't mean I am decalring him a bust or giving up on him or anything of that nature.

 

I'm not going to try to paint the Cardinals as a strong supporting cast by any means. The O-Line alone is enough to really hamper any chance that Rosen has, especially given his relatively lackluster mobility.

 

Regarding the pass catchers, looking at the numbers for each team's top 3 reception leaders from PlayerProfiler.com:

 

Larry Fitz: 85% True Catch Rate (receptions/catchable pass attempts)

Christian Kirk: 90.5%

Ricky Seals-Jones: 66.7%

They don't display David Johnson's since he's a RB unfortunately.

Total: 82.1%

 

Zay Jones: 81.2% (for the record, this is a gigantic improvement from last year, when he was roughly the worst in the NFL)

Charles Clay: 81.8%

Kelvin Benjamin: 53.3%

Total: 71.4%

 

Obviously this is still very early in the year, but for what it's worth, based on all of the receivers that I tracked last year, a true catch rate of 82.1% would be considered elite while 71.4% would be below-average.

Edited October 11, 2018 by DCOrange

[BillsFan1988]

1 hour ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

Considering you have 5 total posts, let me welcome you to the board. As for your dumping all over Allen, McD and Beane, there's an exit door, you should use it.

 

In the meantime, Buffalo fans have often been impatient since the drought started (maybe always, I can't remember that far back), but your take is on a whole-nother level....I won't do it for you, but please take some time to enlighten yourself on additional information and comparisons before you presume Allen is so terrible. Additionally, while Allen remains an unknown commodity and for all the criticism the FO has received for believing him since Draft Day, there needs to be a look at the rest of the Drafted talent which thus far has proven to be quite good. I'm not going too hard on their Pro Personnel except for Star since that was the only "real" contract they handed out. The rest have been guys to come in and fill a void over the short term. Look at their contracts, most are for a year or two....they didn't commit to anyone other than Star and Trent and while Trent took some games to get healthy, he's started doing what they're paying him to do and Star has been unheralded because they've asked him to be the guy who takes on two linemen to free up the LBers and DEs, and he's done that pretty well also. 

 

I have no idea if Allen will be good or not, but I DO know in context of the other 4 starting Rookies, he's right in the middle with them and that's with much less talent at WR / TE than the other QBs have a worse Offensive line than Browns and Jets. All things considered, while he still has a long way to go (here's a little secret, they all do), early signs point to real growth over the last month and that he's continuing to develop. Keep in mind as well, thus far, he's faced a much tougher test than any of the other QBs in terms of Defenses faced and while the Bills have played 3 of their first 5 games on the road. 

Offensively what has this regime done.  Mcd has proven that he's a DC and has no clue how to build a modern day NFL offense.  This WR core is his this Oline is his guys his offensive stuff is horrible he brought these guys here.  Mcd hasn't proven anything but utter incompetence on the offensive side of the ball. This is the reason he will get the can after next season.  When we struggle even with the additions he will make on this offense. This front office and coaching staff will set this team bk a decade. Keep buying this process there feeding u. When the process has been nothing but incompetence since the first day.

[mannc]

1 hour ago, dubs said:

 

We’ve  found Jeffismagic!

 

 

 

No, Jeffismagic knew the difference between “then” and “than”.  He also used punctuation.

[BigBuff423]

16 minutes ago, BillsFan1988 said:

Offensively what has this regime done.  Mcd has proven that he's a DC and has no clue how to build a modern day NFL offense.  This WR core is his this Oline is his guys his offensive stuff is horrible he brought these guys here.  Mcd hasn't proven anything but utter incompetence on the offensive side of the ball. This is the reason he will get the can after next season.  When we struggle even with the additions he will make on this offense. This front office and coaching staff will set this team bk a decade. Keep buying this process there feeding u. When the process has been nothing but incompetence since the first day.

 

What....are you talking about? McD and Beane Drafted Dawkins....Miller was here, Mills was here, Groy was here....Ducasse was brought in and Bodine was brought in. Keep in mind, with Groy at C in the first two games, it was abysmal. Bodine started for the Vikings game and instantly the Offensive line showed real improvement. McD and Beane were committed to cutting Cap money and letting dead cap drift off through the first two years, you can't do that and spend a bunch of money. Additionally, fans dump all over Ducasse - and I was one of them last year - until I started reading more about how he excelled in the second half of the year, when Dennison heard footsteps changed his Offense. He's been decent this year too. Actually, as Offensive lines grade out, they haven't been as bad as fans think - the first two games were horrible, since then they've been much better. Bodine calling protections helps, but also getting Daboll's Offense down and building chemistry helps. Now, that said, I hope they are able to get a Center and RT next year in FA and maybe a RG  in the Draft since Teller showed promise and I'd like him to get this year to learn and next year to start. 

 

Beane traded for KB, fair enough - but his lack of interest is his own doing and I don't know if there was any way to foresee that. Zay they Drafted, but again fans want stats. You have to look at everything. Last year he had a torn labrum, then when he started to turn a corner he was tripped and injured in the Jets game and never came back to full health. Then, the Offense as a whole has struggled but he's getting separation and doing some good blocking over the last couple weeks. Again, familiarity with Allen since Josh only got a brief stint as a starter in the Pre-Season and then thrown into the mix half way through Baltimore as well as learning the Offense well enough to not have to think every step through helps. Clay was Whaley, Holmes was Whaley. The best TE thus far, IMHO? Croom. 

 

You just need to take the hate off your lens and realize this was always going to be a two to three year rebuild and accept it. So many have said it before, but this team hasn't been taken down to the studs in over 20 years...it hurts. But we've seen mediocrity ever since then. If we reverse the years, last year was like this year and this year was like last and we made the playoffs, no one would be saying diddly squat....the fact that the Bills beat Vikings and Titans thus far with all things considered, I'd say that is quite a feat. Just, be patient. This is the first time in forever the team has a real strategic plan, has executed even at the cost of real pain the plan, and has made the hard decisions to look a year ahead. 

[PearlHowardman]

Buffalo Bills QB Josh Allen = 8-8 forever!

 

 

 

[dickleyjones]

it's a good thing we have all of these people from the future to tell us what will happen. Now we can watch Allen definitely fail stress free. yay!

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, BillsFan1988 said:

Offensively what has this regime done.  Mcd has proven that he's a DC and has no clue how to build a modern day NFL offense.  This WR core is his this Oline is his guys his offensive stuff is horrible he brought these guys here.  Mcd hasn't proven anything but utter incompetence on the offensive side of the ball. This is the reason he will get the can after next season.  When we struggle even with the additions he will make on this offense. This front office and coaching staff will set this team bk a decade. Keep buying this process there feeding u. When the process has been nothing but incompetence since the first day.

Check the playoff teams from last year 

[26CornerBlitz]

It pays to read rather than react.

 

Nothing mentioned in this analysis has a thing to do with Allen’s supporting cast — rather, much of it shows how the supporting cast is limited by Allen. Allen is the worst thing about Buffalo’s offense right now, and he has to get better. That said, he deserves time to develop — both things are true.

 

The highs and lows of Josh Allen won’t just be game to game; they’ll be snap to snap. He has a long way to go, but this is the guy McDermott and GM Brandon Beane believed in to fill Buffalo’s long-standing hole at quarterback. Now it’s up to McDermott and his staff to develop him.

[Roundybout]

5 hours ago, BillsFan1988 said:

Please stop the Mahomes Sat for a yr comparisons.  Allen could never hold Mahomes jock . These guys are not comparable on any level other then physically . Mahomes was 100 times better then Allen in college and 200 times better then him in the pros. Mahomes is a Gunslingers Gunslinger he has the it factor he has natural timing and accuracy.  Allen can sit behind Brady or have Peyton Manning attached to his hip and he'll still never be good.  Allen is trash let's face it. McBeane is trash let's face it.  I hate these guys I can't wait till the process kicks them out the door they ruined this team.  

 

Well, you're not JeffisMagic, because his grammar was far far better. Is this SaviorPeterman again?

[PearlHowardman]

Buffalo Bills QB Josh Allen = 9-7 once maybe twice!

 

 

 

[GoBills808]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I believe Josh Rosen will be the best Quarterback from this class. That said, his 2nd half performance last week was atrocious.

 

He is getting far less help than people here like to pretend - Fitz has been dropping balls, the oline has been worse than ours and they can't get Johnson going at all. His best playmaker is the rookie Kirk. But he was really bad the 2nd half against San Fran and the more frustrated he got the worse he played. His first game and a half were pretty good though. 

 

Personally I have Allen 4th of 4 through this point of the season. That doesn't mean I am decalring him a bust or giving up on him or anything of that nature.

I think Rosen has been ok personally, I agree the completion% doesn't really tell the whole story. He's made some nice throws that show why he was drafted imo, he's got a good understanding of routes and defensive looks already which shouldn't be a surprise given his particular skillset. He was drafted to be able to get in there early and run an NFL offense competently. I was responding to someone who was on Allen for his ball placement and using Rosen as the comparison..he hasn't been flawless in that regard at all. 

 

For me Rosen is doing less with more when compared with Allen. They're far apart in their understanding of the game at the NFL level but I expected that, Rosen was always the more polished prospect. Both have a long way to go to justify their draft position, but when compared against each other I don't think either is setting themselves apart. Outside Mayfield the other rookie QBs have been a wash as far as I'm concerned. 

[TwistofFate]

On 10/10/2018 at 2:06 PM, John from Riverside said:

This regime is 2 fricken years in

Jesus where do you ppl come from

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

And inside of two years they benched Taylor for a rookie with whom they thought was better, only for it to be a disaster and switch back after halftime. 

 

Then they cut Taylor, carry the rookie into the second season, draft another rookie, and sign McCarron.  

 

Before the start of the season they trade away the only veteran Qb presence we have, and carry a second year Qb and a rookie into the regular season with no form of leadership at the position in sight. 

 

They name the second year Qb the starter, and bench him after 1 week into the season, for the rookie they just drafted.  The rookie has looked equally as disappointing as the second year guy they benched for him. (sad because Allen is supposedly the future) 

 

Fast forward weeks and all of a sudden we sign another Qb because the brass believe we need a veteran presence to help two young players.   

 

That is called a debacle.   And it's been a debacle from the moment these people took over. 

 

Nothing pertaining to this position has been handled correctly, including moving up in the draft and trading valuable picks for a Qb that needed more work and was a bigger project than any other first rounder. 

 

I'm really not sure where people like you come from.

Edited October 11, 2018 by TwistofFate

[TwistofFate]

On 10/10/2018 at 2:23 PM, John from Riverside said:

So one season one with a qb that is 5 games in

 

this is a joke right?

We're you saying this for Nate Peterman? 

[BuffaloHokie13]

37 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

 

And inside of two years they benched Taylor for a rookie with whom they thought was better, only for it to be a disaster and switch back after halftime. 

 

Then they cut Taylor, carry the rookie into the second season, draft another rookie, and sign McCarron.  

 

Before the start of the season they trade away the only veteran Qb presence we have, and carry a second year Qb and a rookie into the regular season with no form of leadership at the position in sight. 

 

They name the second year Qb the starter, and bench him after 1 week into the season, for the rookie they just drafted.  The rookie has looked equally as disappointing as the second year guy they benched for him. (sad because Allen is supposedly the future) 

 

Fast forward weeks and all of a sudden we sign another Qb because the brass believe we need a veteran presence to help two young players.   

 

That is called a debacle.   And it's been a debacle from the moment these people took over. 

 

Nothing pertaining to this position has been handled correctly, including moving up in the draft and trading valuable picks for a Qb that needed more work and was a bigger project than any other first rounder. 

 

I'm really not sure where people like you come from.

No. Nobody aside from maybe Deshone Kizer has looked as bad as Peterman did this year. Peterman is measurably the worst QB to get this many chances this millennium.

[Success]

There is so much revisionist history about Mahomes now.  I can’t even remember one poster wanting him in that draft.  It was consensus that we fleeced KC, and most were ridiculing Reid for trading up to get a guy that was a 2nd rounder at best.  The board would have gone nuts if we took him in the first, and not in a good way.

 

Now, every other poster is all “I was saying we should have taken him - top player on my board.”  It’s like everyone from the ‘60’s saying they were at Woodstock.

[BuffaloHokie13]

2 minutes ago, Success said:

There is so much revisionist history about Mahomes now.  I can’t even remember one poster wanting him in that draft.  It was consensus that we fleeced KC, and most were ridiculing Reid for trading up to get a guy that was a 2nd rounder at best.  The board would have gone nuts if we took him in the first, and not in a good way.

 

Now, every other poster is all “I was saying we should have taken him - top player on my board.”  It’s like everyone from the ‘60’s saying they were at Woodstock.

I'm sure there were more, but @thebandit27 & @Turbosrrgood both really liked Mahomes pre-draft. Jeffismagic left the board because we didn't draft him, among other things. I wasn't very high on any of the QBs that year, but favored Watson over the rest. Footwork was my major concern with Mahomes.

[TwistofFate]

7 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

No. Nobody aside from maybe Deshone Kizer has looked as bad as Peterman did this year. Peterman is measurably the worst QB to get this many chances this millennium.

And he was thrown to the wolves on the road against the best pass rush in the NFL in his first start. 

 

He played through a BLIZZARD in his second start. 

 

His 3rd start was this season, and he is afforded none of the same excuses Allen is.   It doesn't matter the line was worse in week one. It doesn't matter we were playing a top pass defense in the NFL on the road.   It doesn't matter it's his third start, etc. 

 

Just funny how 3 games in and he's written off and Allen has looked like absolute trash, was drafted 1st round, was marketed as the future, but needs more time to prove it because off supporting cast.   LMAO. 

 

 

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

 

And inside of two years they benched Taylor for a rookie with whom they thought was better, only for it to be a disaster and switch back after halftime. 

For a game.....oh by the way that team still made the playoffs lol

2 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

 

Then they cut Taylor, carry the rookie into the second season, draft another rookie, and sign McCarron.  

They didnt cut TT....they TRADED him (get your facts straight)....and yes....they addressed the QB position in a big way by making drafting a QB high that had consideration for the number one overall pick......but I have this sneaking suspiciion that had they KEPT Tyrod you would be bitching about that....you know cuz troll posts.

2 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

 

Before the start of the season they trade away the only veteran Qb presence we have, and carry a second year Qb and a rookie into the regular season with no form of leadership at the position in sight. 

Because they are rebiulding....do you understand

2 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

 

They name the second year Qb the starter,

 

Because they are rebiulding

and bench him after 1 week into the season, for the rookie they just drafted.

 

Because they are rebiulding

 

The rookie has looked equally as disappointing as the second year guy they benched for him. (sad because Allen is supposedly the future) 

Because he is a rookie, raw, and they are rebiulding

2 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

 

Fast forward weeks and all of a sudden we sign another Qb because the brass believe we need a veteran presence to help two young players.   

You have absolutely no idea how the transactions take place....the player actually wants to come here...this isnt Madden you know?

2 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

 

That is called a debacle.   And it's been a debacle from the moment these people took over. 

No its actually what you punch bowl pissers like to call a debacle.....for all we know this was part of the plan.....they are REBIULDING.   yet despite all this we are 2-3

2 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

 

Nothing pertaining to this position has been handled correctly, including moving up in the draft and trading valuable picks for a Qb that needed more work and was a bigger project than any other first rounder. 

How in the $*$& would you know what "handled correctly" even means armchair GM?   I am quite sure your resume would be taken into consideration if you submitted it they are always looking for people to clean the urinals?

2 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

 

I'm really not sure where people like you come from.

We are here every day Mr. under 50 posts......supporting the team.   Your evaluation means less then spit

15 minutes ago, Success said:

There is so much revisionist history about Mahomes now.  I can’t even remember one poster wanting him in that draft.  It was consensus that we fleeced KC, and most were ridiculing Reid for trading up to get a guy that was a 2nd rounder at best.  The board would have gone nuts if we took him in the first, and not in a good way.

 

Now, every other poster is all “I was saying we should have taken him - top player on my board.”  It’s like everyone from the ‘60’s saying they were at Woodstock.

Intead of fleacing I am thinking it ended up being a fair trade.....we didnt JUST get the 1st round pick out of the deal.

[LSHMEAB]

18 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

No. Nobody aside from maybe Deshone Kizer has looked as bad as Peterman did this year. Peterman is measurably the worst QB to get this many chances this millennium.

Kizer threw for 2800 yards and added 400 yards rushing as a rookie. He was rightfully dismissed.

 

Do you see Allen approaching those numbers?

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, LSHMEAB said:

Kizer threw for 2800 yards and added 400 yards rushing as a rookie. He was rightfully dismissed.

 

Do you see Allen approaching those numbers?

Talk to me at the end of the season.....and yes....Allen could actually bust out as the season progresses.