The Draft Network - Josh Allen's Struggles Go Beyond Lackluster Supporting Cast

[Trogdor]

On 10/9/2018 at 11:34 AM, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

I tend to disagree with most fans not for just the sake of argument but I think Josh is progressing nicely, beating a stout Minnesota defense and another top notch defense in the Titans, he also was behind towards the end and hit on a few plays to get them into FG range. Signs are all pointing in the right direction that we found our QB of the present and future and I'm not really sure why others are doubting, just my opinions though.

Minnesota was stout last year, now they're porous. Shady and Ivory are the only reason that last drive worked. He had Tyrod numbers and that's not a good sign.

13 hours ago, peterpan said:

Trade.mccoy for foles and hope foles can start for 2-4 years.  Allen needs the Rodgers treatment bad. 

To be ignored by the starter? Maybe not the best example if you mean mentoring. He needs a full time QB coach to work on his footwork.

[Trogdor]

On 10/9/2018 at 5:14 PM, GoBills808 said:

Did you watch that game, though? 75 of those yards + the TD came from one broken coverage. 

Rosen's ball placement is second to none in that class. This allows for YAC and you can see it on almost every pass he makes. Allen is basically places the ball the same as Tyrod. 

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

Rosen's ball placement is second to none in that class. This allows for YAC and you can see it on almost every pass he makes. Allen is basically places the ball the same as Tyrod. 

Rosen is completing 49% of his passes.

[PlayoffsPlease]

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Rosen is completing 49% of his passes.

But with brilliant ball placement.  

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Rosen is completing 49% of his passes.

 

He failed to mention that Rosen places the ball perfectly away from his receivers half the time.

 

And holy crap, you're right!

[stinky finger]

On 10/9/2018 at 10:26 AM, PeterDude said:

 

Going to have to get used watching that + Mahomes highlights.  Makes it even more brutal...

 

Gonna be ok there, tiger? 

[Trogdor]

6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Rosen is completing 49% of his passes.

Now your a stats guy? Have you watched the games? 

[stinky finger]

On 10/9/2018 at 10:43 AM, No Place To Hyde said:

Ok, and we knew he would take time to learn back BEFORE he was drafted. Why do the expectations change? Right now he is as advertised. Since we drafted him we have:

 

Given him 3rd and 2nd team reps mostly in TC and preseason

 

Not upgraded anything on offense to support a very inexperienced rookie

 

Given him a QB coach in Culley that before last year hadn't coached QBs since the 80s.

 

Have him play behind a Castillo led oline.

 

Had we moved up for Darnold or taken Rosen instead I truly believe neither one would look any better in this offense. We Will have a much better feel for what we have in Allen about 8 games into next season. 

 

Let the kid get all the 1st team reps in the off season. Let him hold some private workouts with newly signed receivers and get timing and trust down. He may sink or he may swim, but calling him a failure this soon after knowing he would take time is just idiotic.

 

Yep. Nailed it.

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

Now your a stats guy? Have you watched the games? 

???OK Mr. Ball Placement.

[Trogdor]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

???OK Mr. Ball Placement.

His first game was 56%, and his college tape shows the same delivery. You should probably step away from WGR and actually watch other games. 

[stinky finger]

On 10/9/2018 at 12:10 PM, Logic said:

Jesus Christ.

 

Present!

[26CornerBlitz]

 

 

[stinky finger]

On 10/9/2018 at 5:06 PM, ScottLaw said:

He shouldn't be playing. But they don't have a choice.

 

When should he play?

 

They do have another choice.

[BB@Shooter]

On 10/9/2018 at 8:55 AM, BillsFan17 said:

I truly enjoy the hyperbole that other QBs would look the same if not worse in our offense.

 

1) Baker Mayfield is playing on arguably the worst team in NFL history who have Landry and a bunch of young unproven talent.

 

2) Sam Darnold was traded up for, but the Jets still finished with the sixth overall pick. They are not a quality team and Sam is playing extremely well for them.

 

3) Josh Rosen is on a team many have felt were worse than the Bills, and yet is playing very good ball.

Great research. Nice agenda. You hide it well.  NOT!

On 10/9/2018 at 9:14 AM, DCOrange said:

 

I think it's pretty much a certainty that Lamar is taking passing reps in practice. He hasn't had an opportunity to show it in live games yet, but in terms of footwork, I think Allen presently has more issues than Lamar does (Lamar has his own as well to be sure though).

You are guessing about Lamar and you know it. Maybe try and get your media credentials.  Lol.

[BB@Shooter]

10 hours ago, Mat68 said:

In an Offensive league if Allen doesn't show progress and Buffalo flounders down the stretch it would be a possibility.  Likely?  Probably not but who saw John Fox, Lovie Smith, or Jeff Fisher being blown out for similar performances and outcomes?

They all coached for more than 2 years. Buffalo fans can be some big time alarmists. You would think we were supposed to be in the Super Bowl this year. We are 1 game out of first place.  Crying wolf

7 hours ago, Trogdor said:

Minnesota was stout last year, now they're porous. Shady and Ivory are the only reason that last drive worked. He had Tyrod numbers and that's not a good sign.

To be ignored by the starter? Maybe not the best example if you mean mentoring. He needs a full time QB coach to work on his footwork.

At this point if you traded Allen, you would be doing him a big favor. Foles isn't winning with a team like Philly. How would he win with this crap offense? Get a clue please.

[BillsFan1988]

On 10/9/2018 at 6:13 PM, BigBuff423 said:

To me what's interesting is that few on this board are fairly and objectively critiquing the other 1st Round QBs, two of which were NOT available to the Bills. On the season, Allen is second behind Mayfield in completion % and has gone 2-2 in his first four starts against: Chargers, Vikes, Green Bay and Titans. Yes, the Bills NEEDED a good Defense and this last week they needed a decent / good running game and got it, but we knew that didn't we? Everyone was shouting to start Allen while understanding this team would rely on good to great Defense and a decent to good running game. They do, and now the sky is falling...?? Man, sometimes the Bills fans are the best and sometimes they are the worst.

 

Allen possessed all the prototypical traits a franchise QB has in the physical department and had the intangibles to lead a team, but needed starts and coaching to get him into the NFL QB realm. He's getting that....and the Bills are still winning despite that fact. They lost miserably at Baltimore and the game was essentially over when he came into play in the 2nd half and he was bad, but now we're seeing how good Baltimore is and it was his first live action EVER! Then, in his first start he looked every bit the Rookie QB, but the Defense was terrible and in the second half everything started to come together Defensively for the Bills and he made some minor improvements. Then the Vikings game the D continued their dominance and he orchestrated short drives to capitalize on the opportunity through his athleticism and an open pass to Croom. Green Bay on the road and he had a rookie game...no excuses other than his options for passing were limited and for whatever reason, Shady wasn't used and Ivory was non-existent in the game plan. Then Titans come to town. Defense gets a turnover and Allen uses his athleticism again to score the game's only TD. We also forget that the Offense was moving the ball and gaining yards, but a botched field goal by another Rookie cost a probable 3 points, and then Allen creates the drive to win the game on a last second field goal in just his 4th start. And he made some crucial passes on that final drive, don't get it twisted. 

 

Is he ready to be the reining King of Buffalo? Well DUH, of course not. But, we've gotten exactly what many fans wanted, won two tough games against good opponents and Allen continues to develop. If you take Traspasso's evaluation, Allen had the best game of his short NFL stint from a pocket presence and awareness standpoint. Folks, change occurs incrementally, not all in one week. Mahomes is awesome, but Reid sat him behind Alex Smith, a former #1 overall pick and good QB, to learn for a year. Let's give Allen the year and see how he transitions into next year, all the while game-planning accordingly and building on what is becoming a very good Defense. 

Please stop the Mahomes Sat for a yr comparisons.  Allen could never hold Mahomes jock . These guys are not comparable on any level other then physically . Mahomes was 100 times better then Allen in college and 200 times better then him in the pros. Mahomes is a Gunslingers Gunslinger he has the it factor he has natural timing and accuracy.  Allen can sit behind Brady or have Peyton Manning attached to his hip and he'll still never be good.  Allen is trash let's face it. McBeane is trash let's face it.  I hate these guys I can't wait till the process kicks them out the door they ruined this team.  

[GunnerBill]

We are not developing him hiding him in the way we did last Sunday. Sure lean on the run, but we hardly executed much passing off the back of it - in play action or anything else. 

 

To me at the moment Josh is what I expected him to be. He hasn't kicked on yet from the performance in MIN. I just hope they are focussed on developing him and not Jauroning their way to 7-9. 

 

 

8 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Rosen is completing 49% of his passes.

 

I believe Josh Rosen will be the best Quarterback from this class. That said, his 2nd half performance last week was atrocious.

 

He is getting far less help than people here like to pretend - Fitz has been dropping balls, the oline has been worse than ours and they can't get Johnson going at all. His best playmaker is the rookie Kirk. But he was really bad the 2nd half against San Fran and the more frustrated he got the worse he played. His first game and a half were pretty good though. 

 

Personally I have Allen 4th of 4 through this point of the season. That doesn't mean I am decalring him a bust or giving up on him or anything of that nature.

[BigBuff423]

1 hour ago, BillsFan1988 said:

Please stop the Mahomes Sat for a yr comparisons.  Allen could never hold Mahomes jock . These guys are not comparable on any level other then physically . Mahomes was 100 times better then Allen in college and 200 times better then him in the pros. Mahomes is a Gunslingers Gunslinger he has the it factor he has natural timing and accuracy.  Allen can sit behind Brady or have Peyton Manning attached to his hip and he'll still never be good.  Allen is trash let's face it. McBeane is trash let's face it.  I hate these guys I can't wait till the process kicks them out the door they ruined this team.  

 

Considering you have 5 total posts, let me welcome you to the board. As for your dumping all over Allen, McD and Beane, there's an exit door, you should use it.

 

In the meantime, Buffalo fans have often been impatient since the drought started (maybe always, I can't remember that far back), but your take is on a whole-nother level....I won't do it for you, but please take some time to enlighten yourself on additional information and comparisons before you presume Allen is so terrible. Additionally, while Allen remains an unknown commodity and for all the criticism the FO has received for believing him since Draft Day, there needs to be a look at the rest of the Drafted talent which thus far has proven to be quite good. I'm not going too hard on their Pro Personnel except for Star since that was the only "real" contract they handed out. The rest have been guys to come in and fill a void over the short term. Look at their contracts, most are for a year or two....they didn't commit to anyone other than Star and Trent and while Trent took some games to get healthy, he's started doing what they're paying him to do and Star has been unheralded because they've asked him to be the guy who takes on two linemen to free up the LBers and DEs, and he's done that pretty well also. 

 

I have no idea if Allen will be good or not, but I DO know in context of the other 4 starting Rookies, he's right in the middle with them and that's with much less talent at WR / TE than the other QBs have a worse Offensive line than Browns and Jets. All things considered, while he still has a long way to go (here's a little secret, they all do), early signs point to real growth over the last month and that he's continuing to develop. Keep in mind as well, thus far, he's faced a much tougher test than any of the other QBs in terms of Defenses faced and while the Bills have played 3 of their first 5 games on the road. 

[dubs]

2 hours ago, BillsFan1988 said:

Please stop the Mahomes Sat for a yr comparisons.  Allen could never hold Mahomes jock . These guys are not comparable on any level other then physically . Mahomes was 100 times better then Allen in college and 200 times better then him in the pros. Mahomes is a Gunslingers Gunslinger he has the it factor he has natural timing and accuracy.  Allen can sit behind Brady or have Peyton Manning attached to his hip and he'll still never be good.  Allen is trash let's face it. McBeane is trash let's face it.  I hate these guys I can't wait till the process kicks them out the door they ruined this team.  

 

We’ve  found Jeffismagic!

 

 

 

[DCOrange]

4 hours ago, BB@Shooter said:

 

You are guessing about Lamar and you know it. Maybe try and get your media credentials.  Lol.

 

I mean he's the #2 QB on the team. The likelihood that he isn't getting any passing reps is pretty slim. I don't think that's a guess at all.

 

As for the footwork, you could see it in their respective college tape and you can see it in Allen's NFL tape; no guesswork needed.