Is Allen's Ceiling Cam Newton Lite?

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Beane was also asked in that interview about not selecting a WR in the Draft until the 6th Round and he said the Bills stuck true to their board and it kept falling on defense. 

 

Asked about Dez Bryant, said they'll talk about it. 

 

In terms of Free Agent WRs: You'll see some guys coming out in the Free Agent waters, Maclin, Decker came out last year. 

 

9 picks in 2019, cap should be better in 2019, knows they have a ways to go. 

 

No focus on Benjamin extension. 

[Kirby Jackson]

Allen’s ceiling is league MVP and his floor is where he is now. 

Edited October 8, 2018 by Kirby Jackson

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 hours ago, kota said:

please make it stop....

 

...why?...isn't it a valid comparison?...Cam enters year 8 with 113 starts.......Josh is in year 1 with 5 starts....seems pretty fair to me.......based on TBD standards of analysis...

[quinnearlysghost88]

2 hours ago, Rebel101 said:

Big Ben isn’t as athletic and has way better pocket awareness and movement 

Agreed. Has anyone talked about the fact that we have won when keeping Josh's PAs under 25? 22 for both Ws. Look at Big Ben's rookie year when he went 13-0. PA per game were 22. 

[The Frankish Reich]

This should be a poll. I'm too lazy to set it up.

 

QUESTION: After 4 years in the league, the "finished product" Josh Allen as he enters free agency (or his option year) will most resemble which of the following at the same point?

 

A. Ben Roethlisberger

B. Cam Newton

C. Blake Bortles

D. Brandon Weeden

E. Jake Locker

F. Blaine Gabbert

 

[Yes, all deliberately chosen to reflect similar attributes to Allen ... Big/Mobile/Athletic/Big Arm, thought in some respect to be raw or "project" draft choices. And yes, this is kind of a descending scale from future HOFer all the way down to total bust.]

EDIT: I added Brandon Weeden. We forget about him. Obviously he was older than Allen when he entered the league, but there are some similarities ...

 

Edited October 8, 2018 by The Frankish Reich

[uticaclub]

1 minute ago, The Frankish Reich said:

This should be a poll. I'm too lazy to set it up.

 

QUESTION: After 4 years in the league, the "finished product" Josh Allen as he enters free agency (or his option year) will most resemble which of the following at the same point?

 

A. Ben Roethlisberger

B. Cam Newton

C. Blake Bortles

D. Jake Locker

E. Blaine Gabbert

 

[Yes, all deliberately chosen to reflect similar attributes to Allen ... Big/Mobile/Athletic/Big Arm, thought in some respect to be raw or "project" draft choices. And yes, this is kind of a descending scale from future HOFer all the way down to total bust.]

 

Hoping A or B, but probably C or E

Edited October 8, 2018 by uticaclub

[The Frankish Reich]

2 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

Hoping A or B, but probably C or E

Right now, my realistic hope is C (Blake Bortles). But Brandon Weeden (my late entry) and Jake Locker also seem like reasonable options. Sure, Ben and Cam are possibilities, but they were the same possibilities out there for guys like Bortles. When you draft one of these guys (huge talent/very raw) you have to realize that only a tiny minority make it to the elite level.

[US Egg]

"Is Allen's Ceiling Cam Newton Lite" ?....

 

.....the Bills brass (and fans) would take that ASAP.

[st pete gogolak]

I'm not trying to define the kid's career after 4 games.  Really, really not.  The point of the thread was to speculate as to his ceiling.  Key word there is speculate.  Cam Newton has had two years with a completion percentage above 60% (actually one of the two years was 60% so he's had a grand total of one year above 60%).  Newton's kind of a unicorn in that respect.  An extremely successful NFL QB who is not terribly accurate.  The point however is that if we drafted unicorn 2.0 we still can have a franchise quarterback who's completion percentage hovers around 60%.  And it isn't fair to even compare rookie Cam to rookie Josh.  Cam won the Heisman and played in the SEC.  I am firmly in the camp that Allen would have been better off sitting this year but it is what it is. 

[NoSaint]

2 hours ago, st pete gogolak said:

I was among the crowd unhappy with the Allen selection.  As Vince Lombardi is often misquoted "accuracy isn't everything, it's the only thing".  But after watching some of his college tape and especially the pre-season games, I came around. 

 

Based on the first five games of the season, it's WAY too early to make any generalizations as to where this ends up.  But. . . you've got a kid with linebacker size, really strong arm, very good runner and serious accuracy issues.  Remind you of anyone?  Cam Newton, perhaps?  If Allen's ceiling is in the Cam Newton zip code, is that a bad thing?  After all, Newton's got an MVP trophy and has taken a team to the Super Bowl.  Are the similarities to Cam what attracted McBeane to Allen?  Better line, much better receivers, a year to learn how to diagnose defenses and make quicker decisions and, most important, just like in Carolina, an offensive scheme designed to take advantage of his strengths and I think we will be ok. 

 

Cam can be very accurate. Cam gets lazy and often tries to get away with things because he has the rocket arm. He loves those deep balls across the field off his back foot for instance. 

 

While they have some commonality- I don’t think it’s apples to apples in the cause of the accuracy inconsistencies 

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, st pete gogolak said:

I was among the crowd unhappy with the Allen selection.  As Vince Lombardi is often misquoted "accuracy isn't everything, it's the only thing".  But after watching some of his college tape and especially the pre-season games, I came around. 

 

Based on the first five games of the season, it's WAY too early to make any generalizations as to where this ends up.  But. . . you've got a kid with linebacker size, really strong arm, very good runner and serious accuracy issues.  Remind you of anyone?  Cam Newton, perhaps?  If Allen's ceiling is in the Cam Newton zip code, is that a bad thing?  After all, Newton's got an MVP trophy and has taken a team to the Super Bowl.  Are the similarities to Cam what attracted McBeane to Allen?  Better line, much better receivers, a year to learn how to diagnose defenses and make quicker decisions and, most important, just like in Carolina, an offensive scheme designed to take advantage of his strengths and I think we will be ok. 

 

Steve Young.  This is who I see his arc looking like.  And like Allen, Steve Young looked bad and struggled early on a terrible expansion franchise.  As soon as he got to the 49ers and got real talent around him, he literally unseated the GOAT Joe Montana who they traded before he was done to be able to play Steve Young who would go on to deliver a SB trophy shortly after and go down as an all time great QB.

 

The comparison has nothing to do with skin color either as someone said in another thread one time.  I think they are similar players who faced similar challenges in their early careers.  But, like Young, Allen has an immense ceiling, big arm, and can make you pay with his legs when he has too.  Also like Young, the kid has a heart of steal (not something I think many will say about Cam) and inspire the players around him (also not something many say about Cam).  He is built more like Cam in terms of his size, but I think when Allen finds his groove and some talent comes around, he is going to resemble Young more as a QB than Cam.  

 

This is all opinion obviously because NONE of us know what he WILL or WONT be.  But I think the kid has a bright future and I see a Steve Young type style to him really start coming into form once the kid gets a better team around him that he can trust.  

 

Honestly for me, I think his #1 biggest issue is that he does not trust the guys around him right now and is trying to do too much himself.  McD said it best, he HAS TO take what the D gives him.  His lack of trust in the OL is giving him happy feet and sloppy mechanics, and I think he is always looking to try and get the big play too much to rally the team.  Too often there are easy check downs he doesnt even look at because he is trying to get the ball down field and with his arm to carry the team.  He just isnt ready for that yet and he also doesnt have personnel around him to help him out.  He has to start making decisions based on whats there and not keep trying to find something bigger cuz the WRs just dont consistently get enough separation.  And that time he's looking for it causes the OL to not hold up too, and again, happy feet come into play.  

 

I am all in on Josh, and I feel strongly about his future.  And I was a doubter in the offseason until the kid won me over before the draft and has only strengthened my confidence in him so far.  I can live with mistakes, the offense is terrible around him and he has no help.  

 

28 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

This should be a poll. I'm too lazy to set it up.

 

QUESTION: After 4 years in the league, the "finished product" Josh Allen as he enters free agency (or his option year) will most resemble which of the following at the same point?

 

A. Ben Roethlisberger

B. Cam Newton

C. Blake Bortles

D. Brandon Weeden

E. Jake Locker

F. Blaine Gabbert

 

[Yes, all deliberately chosen to reflect similar attributes to Allen ... Big/Mobile/Athletic/Big Arm, thought in some respect to be raw or "project" draft choices. And yes, this is kind of a descending scale from future HOFer all the way down to total bust.]

EDIT: I added Brandon Weeden. We forget about him. Obviously he was older than Allen when he entered the league, but there are some similarities ...

 

 

G.  Steve Young.  My answer.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[Dablitzkrieg]

The ceiling is the roof

[Augie]

 More concerned about what his floor is, but I’m the nervous type. 

 

 

But OPTIMISTIC still! 

[Troll Toll]

Ceiling is probably closer to either Young or Favre. Floor is what he is right now. One good thing is he should be facing a tough defense in practice.

[US Egg]

9 minutes ago, Troll Toll said:

Ceiling is probably closer to either Young or Favre.

 

Yeah, a person can dream....enjoy the song/video and see if you can find all the big name music stars who were in this video.  

 

There's a few, but you likely need to be at least 50 to recognize them.

 

 

Edited October 8, 2018 by I am the egg man

[thurst44]

21 minutes ago, I am the egg man said:

 

Yeah, a person can dream....enjoy the song/video and see if you can find all the big name music stars who were in this video.  

 

There's a few, but you likely need to be at least 50 to recognize them.

 

 

The ceiling is the dream. Also, great song, great video.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Well Cam was the 1st person I thought of watching college tape. Cam is more naturally a playmaker though. He has a better feel for the game speed. If Allen can speed up his processing he has a chance to be similar to Cam Newton. 

[John from Riverside]

What if he brings attributes of both Cam AND Big Ben

 

Just be the best Josh Allen you can be sir

[gobills1212]

Jeepers... 

What id honestly like to know is do these posters actually think their thoughts are original, and or unique and thats why a new post is warranted? 

Edited October 8, 2018 by gobills1212

[The Frankish Reich]

57 minutes ago, Troll Toll said:

Ceiling is probably closer to either Young or Favre. Floor is what he is right now. One good thing is he should be facing a tough defense in practice.

Favre is actually a really good comp for his ceiling. Chances he hit Favre level? Well, we can argue, but I assume everyone will admit that it's low. I'm not really seeing Steve Young; maybe it's because of the lefty thing causing a mental block, but they don't seem like the same type of QB. Even in his difficult early years you could see the uncanny ability to throw on the run, and you could also see that he never had the cannon arm that Allen has. Just kind of a different QB profile.