Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 9, 2018 Posted October 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, Trogdor said: You're also leaving out the total shift in the NFL since then. It was still a running league, but now with the new rules it's a bad game under 200yds throwing. We can't compare two eras of football, even if it seems like it wasn't that long ago. The shift isn't as clear cut as folks think. Every year there are 2-4 playoff teams that are in the bottom half of the league for passing yards. This past year it was Jags, Titans, Panthers and oh yeah, Bills. Wasn't that long ago that you could expect to see two run-heavy teams deep in the playoffs every year (Seasnakes and 49ers, plus the perennially shallow Chiefs) 3 minutes ago, Trogdor said: Speaking of, who thought our cannon armed QB would be so terrible at long throws? He isn't even close on the majority of them. Hard to tell. He's had a couple dimes that were dropped *cough* Foster *cough*. He's also had a couple where the WR was visibly loafing (*cough* KB *cough*) or potentially ran the wrong route or the right route wrong. We'll see, but deep throws are low-percentage for the best of QB
ROCBillsBeliever Posted October 9, 2018 Posted October 9, 2018 1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said: And so instead we got Peterman? Sheeesh, McCarron must have been an axe murderer! ????
ctk232 Posted October 9, 2018 Posted October 9, 2018 3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: IMO, the biggest gap in Allen's game coming in was those short to intermediate throws, and being able to throw accurately on the roll out. Every successful NFL QB has to be able to take the gimmee throws, the check-downs and make the D pay. Brady has made a career out of 3-5 yd passes his WR and TE turn into 6-10. He seems to be getting better - but it's still a gap. On 2 of his 4 throw-aways, just on the commercial film he had what appeared to be a viable checkdown and ditto on 2 of his 6 incompletions. If he makes half of them, and mebbe has a WR that doesn't butter-finger the ball up in the air for an INT, now he's at 68% completions and he's more of a viable QB. I would argue if he masters those throws this year, that's an even more necessary step than the vertical passing game. He's not going to be "ready next year" by throwing incompletions downfield to WR who don't get open or don't run the routes he expects and taking the team 3 and out. I agree - though his short to mid range throws need to be more accurate, I think the bigger issue here is timing these throws. A fair amount of it has to do with how our WRs are running their routes, but the reason Brady's receivers put 6-10 yards on at the end is his receivers execute their routes and Brady hits them at the exact point to where they can extend for some pretty solid YAC. I should amend my previous post from "limiting him to mid/short throws" to "limiting him to game manager type throws." While these are certainly throws he needs to execute 100% of the attempts he makes, I'd still like for him to really experience needing to diagnose a defense each and every play, even on run plays, and be able to rely on his arm and ability to manipulate defenses to win games. That being said, the Minnesota game was great for this reason, while benefiting from insane field position every drive, he opened up with a few long throws, but primarily short-mid range targets and evolving into more timed routes. Give the kid throws to build from early in a game, set up the run, and then open it up on play action and solid coverage reads. See how he does with that progression.
reddogblitz Posted October 9, 2018 Posted October 9, 2018 Just win baby. As he gets better he can do more.
Trogdor Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 19 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: The shift isn't as clear cut as folks think. Every year there are 2-4 playoff teams that are in the bottom half of the league for passing yards. This past year it was Jags, Titans, Panthers and oh yeah, Bills. Wasn't that long ago that you could expect to see two run-heavy teams deep in the playoffs every year (Seasnakes and 49ers, plus the perennially shallow Chiefs) Hard to tell. He's had a couple dimes that were dropped *cough* Foster *cough*. He's also had a couple where the WR was visibly loafing (*cough* KB *cough*) or potentially ran the wrong route or the right route wrong. We'll see, but deep throws are low-percentage for the best of QB I meant moreso with the penalties. The new passer friendly league is allowing even rushing teams to pass for over 200 consistently. As far as the deep throws, I think he underthrew a couple to Coleman. I can't argue that this receiving Corp is absolutely terrible.
The_Dude Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 We won ugly on Sunday and had 64 offensive snaps that Allen participated and learned in. You can do both. 4
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 23 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Hard to tell. He's had a couple dimes that were dropped *cough* Foster *cough*. He's also had a couple where the WR was visibly loafing (*cough* KB *cough*) or potentially ran the wrong route or the right route wrong. We'll see, but deep throws are low-percentage for the best of QB 4 hours ago, Trogdor said: I meant moreso with the penalties. The new passer friendly league is allowing even rushing teams to pass for over 200 consistently. As far as the deep throws, I think he underthrew a couple to Coleman. I can't argue that this receiving Corp is absolutely terrible.
JM57 Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 1 hour ago, The_Dude said: We won ugly on Sunday and had 64 offensive snaps that Allen participated and learned in. You can do both. Aside from the team winning, what was the difference between Allen's performance Sunday and Tyrod Taylor's performance against the Saints last year? Both had putrid overall passing numbers. Failing to read the defense and seeing open receivers. Bailing out of the pocket at the slightest hint of pressure. This team is not in a good place, regardless of record. You cannot consistently win games with a QB passing for under 200 yards. That recipe is your offense bringing a knife to a gun fight.
Gugny Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 On 10/8/2018 at 9:09 AM, Berky1010 said: There has been a lot of debate about whether we should try and win 8 games this year or prioritize the development of Josh Allen. Both are great but there are a number of people who are mad at yesterday's win given the poor showing at QB. So I would ask you - would you rather 1) See good progress from Allen but win 3-4 games? Or 2) Win 8 games ugly and enter next season without a confident grasp of who will be our long term QB? Anyone mad at a win is a questionable fan. Seeing weekly progress from Allen, to me, is the primary goal. Along the way, I'll enjoy any wins and hope that players, coaches and the GM will learn from any losses.
The_Dude Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, JM57 said: Aside from the team winning, what was the difference between Allen's performance Sunday and Tyrod Taylor's performance against the Saints last year? Both had putrid overall passing numbers. Failing to read the defense and seeing open receivers. Bailing out of the pocket at the slightest hint of pressure. This team is not in a good place, regardless of record. You cannot consistently win games with a QB passing for under 200 yards. That recipe is your offense bringing a knife to a gun fight. I agree with you to an extent. I disagree with your Tyrod vs. Allen comparison. Tyrod didn’t pass for much because he refused to pass. Allen isn’t passing for much because as of right now he sucks. But Allen’s a rookie and has the tools to be great if he can put it together. There was enough evidence with Tyrod to prove he’d never put it together.
Straight Hucklebuck Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 Allen needs to play 100% of the time. Who cares about meaningless wins and losses this season? It would be asinine for the Bills to pull Allen and put in journeyman Derek Anderson. What a complete waste of time. If they do that, then I immediately jump on the fire Beane and McDermott bandwagon.
JM57 Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 1 hour ago, The_Dude said: I agree with you to an extent. I disagree with your Tyrod vs. Allen comparison. Tyrod didn’t pass for much because he refused to pass. Allen isn’t passing for much because as of right now he sucks. But Allen’s a rookie and has the tools to be great if he can put it together. There was enough evidence with Tyrod to prove he’d never put it together. They are similar but different. Like you said, Taylor wasn't throwing to the open receivers whether that was refusal to throw over the middle or inability to see them due to his height, we don't know. Allen isn't even SEEING them and his height isn't an excuse. Very worrisome.
Jerome007 Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 On 10/8/2018 at 9:20 AM, Hebert19 said: Both. We won ugly and he learned he doesn't need to look downfield every play. One doesn't mean the other isnt happening. Exactly. And he learns a lot more by "doing little" but being active like in the last game that if he sat out all year watching tape!
bdutton Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 Play Peterman and draft a QB with the number one next year. Rinse, rather, repeat.
Gugny Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 50 minutes ago, bdutton said: Play Peterman and draft a QB with the number one next year. Rinse, rather, repeat. 1
The_Dude Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 4 hours ago, JM57 said: They are similar but different. Like you said, Taylor wasn't throwing to the open receivers whether that was refusal to throw over the middle or inability to see them due to his height, we don't know. Allen isn't even SEEING them and his height isn't an excuse. Very worrisome. Meh. It's been four games. If he's still where he's at 4 games into next year I'll hit the panic. Allen has shown me NOTHING. Nothing to suggest he'll be great, and nothing to suggest he'll be a bust.
Fadingpain Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 The correct answer is "Develop Allen" every day of the week and twice on Sundays. Which is why, when this organization starts Anderson, it's going to be really, really tough to take.
Trogdor Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 11 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Yeah idk why I can't get Coleman and Foster straight. Maybe it's the speed and no hands aspect of their game.
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