McDermott and Beane ought to feel utter terror about Allen

[TFBillsfan]

Was out of town this weekend, but recorded the game and watched it late last night. Josh is obviously still developing but overall he is growing. Complain about the playcalling and not throwing the ball all you want, but he’s still developing even with this gameplan. Anyone remember Big Ben’s first year? He rarely threw more than 10 passes a game. It’s providing Josh with more confidence, smaller sample size of his throws to assess in the film room and allowing him to mature reading defenses more effectively.

 

I’d prefer the Bills to take this approach compared to getting sacked 5 times per game with a receiving core that is weak. Asking him to throw it 25+ per game with our current offensive talent is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole! Have some patience and enjoy this season for what it is. They are a major work in progress. Defense looks like it’s corrected itself. Never expected Josh to come in day one a lite it up but he is by far the most talented QB, we’ve had since Kelly.  IMO, I look at Josh as a glass half full not half empty and overall like what I seem from him thus far. 2-2 as a starter with 5 TD’s. Expect with an upgraded OL and receiving core in his 2nd season and a year of experience plus another full offseason to grow, I’m excited about our future!

 

BTW....love the Bills bringing in Anderson to help this young man develop and lean on a experienced vet!

[oldmanfan]

49 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

I'm just taking note of how long it'll be before the board turns on Allen.

 

He's young and has plenty of time to grow, but he doesn't look good throwing the football.  

 

That's a hard fact!

No it's not.  That is in fact ridiculous.  Look at his throws to Zay yesterday to Holmes which should have been caught.  The throw o Shady on third down in the last drive.  When he sets his feet and throws he has looked fine.  Could be better but no reason to think he can't continue to improve.

12 hours ago, Jpsredemption said:

With Allen looking as bad as he does, even though these two did absolutely nothing offensively to help his cause, McD and Beane must be in panic mode (Derek Anderson, really?). 

 

Not only do you have to rebuild an entire offense but your prized QB is beyond terrible. Maybe if they would have listened to the overwhelming majority of pundits they wouldn't have traded all their draft capital for a guy with suspect accuracy and pocket awareness. Couple this with underachieving at Wyoming and I'm not really sure why he was ever a consideration in the first round to begin with. 

 

If its me..and trust me I know this will not happen.. I am very seriously considering a QB with my top 10 pick next year if there isn't any progression. I know everyone wants to give it time but how often is a QB utterly awful only to turn it around and become great these days (Goff seems to be the exception to the rule - not ready to anoint Trubisky). 

 

So I'd be kicking my self in the rear if I were these guys. I gave up (2) crucial 2nd round picks that could have been used to bolster my roster even further and probably could have done so and skill gotten Josh Rosen had I stayed put. 

 

So go ahead and tell me it's too early. Some of us know when things are going to end poorly (EJ Manuel). My advice to Beane and McD is think long and hard this offseason and don't be blinded by reality...you're jobs may depend on it. 

Let's see:

 

Panic mode.

Your prized QB is beyond terrible

Not sure why he was ever a consideration in the first round to begin with

How often is a QB utterly awful

Crucial 2nd round picks

Tell me it's too early

 

All these are comments you've made, hyperbolic comments made to generate blowback.  You get it and then you're offended when you do.

 

Your shtick is old and tired. Either contribute meaningfully to discussions around here or consider not posting such things if you're going to be hurt when folks comment back

 

[Heavy Kevi]

1 hour ago, Jpsredemption said:

Exactly!!!! It's not like this guy was a stud in a 2nd rate conference. 

 

Much like Manuel I believe his accuracy flaws may be fatal. Couple this with the crap job the staff did surrounding him with talent and you have a recipe for disaster.

 

So as much as a 13-12 win is a win it is not a sustainable model of success in today's NFL. The past 2 weeks have also offered nothing in terms of progression.

Disagreement is fine and expected but I've been personally attacked and that you can't possibly justify that. 

 

That's why I made reference to the club..attack me personally and I'll go away.

 

You're a mod..you should be vetting this behavior.

 

I'm not a mod.

 

Just a random guy making observations.

[blacklabel]

12 hours ago, Jpsredemption said:

With Allen looking as bad as he does, even though these two did absolutely nothing offensively to help his cause, McD and Beane must be in panic mode (Derek Anderson, really?). 

 

Not only do you have to rebuild an entire offense but your prized QB is beyond terrible. Maybe if they would have listened to the overwhelming majority of pundits they wouldn't have traded all their draft capital for a guy with suspect accuracy and pocket awareness. Couple this with underachieving at Wyoming and I'm not really sure why he was ever a consideration in the first round to begin with. 

 

If its me..and trust me I know this will not happen.. I am very seriously considering a QB with my top 10 pick next year if there isn't any progression. I know everyone wants to give it time but how often is a QB utterly awful only to turn it around and become great these days (Goff seems to be the exception to the rule - not ready to anoint Trubisky). 

 

So I'd be kicking my self in the rear if I were these guys. I gave up (2) crucial 2nd round picks that could have been used to bolster my roster even further and probably could have done so and skill gotten Josh Rosen had I stayed put. 

 

So go ahead and tell me it's too early. Some of us know when things are going to end poorly (EJ Manuel). My advice to Beane and McD is think long and hard this offseason and don't be blinded by reality...you're jobs may depend on it. 

 

Where are you credentials? Aside from "I've watched this game since 1943!" I mean, when it comes to football and player analysis, I'm apt to trust the work done by two guys with a combined 40 years in the business as well as the front office and scouting group they've assembled. Seriously, they've hit on a number of their draft picks already. Let's have a look...

 

2017

Tre' White - already one of the best players on the team.

 

Zay Jones - actually leading the team in receptions. The three-year rule applies to WRs especially because the college game doesn't do a whole lot to prepare a receiver for the NFL. Plus, his first year was spent with a run-first team where no WRs were putting up big numbers. Like him or not, the coaching staff is high on him, they invested a high draft pick and will give him every chance to succeed.

 

Dion Dawkins - played well enough as a rookie to unseat a 7-year vet with a contract usually reserved for Pro Bowl players (had the Bills been more relevant I can think of a couple of seasons where Glenn's play was Pro Bowl level). Still learning but for the most part, wins his one on ones and is probably the best overall player on the OL.

 

Matt Milano - plays like his hair is on fire and is always around the ball. Forces fumbles, recovers fumbles, gets interceptions, etc. Just keeps finding ways to make plays.

 

Nate Peterman - Swing and a miss! I mean, I'm sure he may get another shot to prove himself (I hope it doesn't come this season) but if he continues to be a practice time warrior and a game time nincompoop, they'll move on.

 

Tanner Vallejo - They can't all be zingers. Plus, 6th round picks get cut all the time. They took a chance hoping he'd return to form from his college days (he had a season or two at Boise State where he played really well and racked up some nice numbers) but injuries have hindered his development and so, they moved on.

 

2018

Josh Allen - obviously need to give it time but he's flashed the big play ability, shown the athleticism, takes time for any young QB to wrap their head around NFL defenses and have the game slow down for them. I love the confidence and swagger he has and while it gets him in trouble at times, I like that he has the mentality of "I can make the play" any time he has the ball. As I said, that can get him in trouble but yesterday showed that he's learning how to throw it away or take the checkdown or whatever instead of running around doing the sandlot stuff while trying to make a play. I honestly think he'll only get better and this team is not going to give up on him easy. He will have every chance to succeed.

 

Tremaine Edmunds - C'mon now, kid is only 20 years old, already calling the plays on defense and in only five professional regular season games, his coaches are already saying the game is slowing down for him and he's barely scratched the surface of his potential. He's already pretty solid, has forced several fumbles, like Milano, is always around the ball. Just a matter of time before he makes a "wow" play.

 

Harrison Phillips - Coming along, seems to be getting more playing time each week. Flashed a few times in pre-season. Learning from one of the best all around DTs (and just all around football players) on the team. Only going to get better.

 

Taron Johnson - Playing extremely well. Looking like this years Matt Milano.

 

Siran Neal - Has raw ability and versatility which is what this coaching staff loves. And McDermott has shown a great ability to coach up DBs.

 

Wyatt Teller - After his sophomore year he was being hyped as a 2nd-3rd round prospect. Injured his junior year, didn't take well to the new coaches in his senior year. From what I read, he showed the athletic ability and strength to hang with NFL DL but just needs more time in the classroom. I'm sure he'll get a shot at a starting job next season.

 

Ray-Ray McCloud - Obviously fast but just as it was in college, where's his best position? At best, I think he might be a part-time receiver/gadget player and eventually a full-time returner. 

 

Austin Proehl - He was a few picks away from being an undrafted free agent. It didn't work out and they moved on.

 

Fourteen draft picks so far, four from their first group are full-time starters. Three from the 2018 group are already starting with Harrison Phillips firmly entrenched in the DL rotation (and I expect his snap count to steadily rise over the course of the season). Overall, that's 8 out of 14 picks that are already contributing. That's a pretty good success rate. So, once again, I'mma go ahead and buy in on what these guys are doing as opposed to OP who thinks seeing the EJ Manuel debacle means he can foresee the future of another, completely different QB prospect.

[Roundybout]

Rosen had a worse completion percentage yesterday and most of his yards came on that long TD where Kirk was so wide open, Peterman could have made that throw. Should Wilks and the Cardinals GM be in utter terror too?

[Jamie Mueller]

13 hours ago, Jpsredemption said:

With Allen looking as bad as he does, even though these two did absolutely nothing offensively to help his cause, McD and Beane must be in panic mode (Derek Anderson, really?). 

 

Not only do you have to rebuild an entire offense but your prized QB is beyond terrible. Maybe if they would have listened to the overwhelming majority of pundits they wouldn't have traded all their draft capital for a guy with suspect accuracy and pocket awareness. Couple this with underachieving at Wyoming and I'm not really sure why he was ever a consideration in the first round to begin with. 

 

If its me..and trust me I know this will not happen.. I am very seriously considering a QB with my top 10 pick next year if there isn't any progression. I know everyone wants to give it time but how often is a QB utterly awful only to turn it around and become great these days (Goff seems to be the exception to the rule - not ready to anoint Trubisky). 

 

So I'd be kicking my self in the rear if I were these guys. I gave up (2) crucial 2nd round picks that could have been used to bolster my roster even further and probably could have done so and skill gotten Josh Rosen had I stayed put. 

 

So go ahead and tell me it's too early. Some of us know when things are going to end poorly (EJ Manuel). My advice to Beane and McD is think long and hard this offseason and don't be blinded by reality...you're jobs may depend on it. 

 

Don't be blinded by reality?  Really?

[Chicken Boo]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

No it's not.  That is in fact ridiculous.  Look at his throws to Zay yesterday to Holmes which should have been caught.  The throw o Shady on third down in the last drive.  When he sets his feet and throws he has looked fine.  Could be better but no reason to think he can't continue to improve.

 

 

Those throws are few and far between.  Kind of reminiscent of another QB that was here recently.

 

The very first thing I stated was that Josh has plenty of time to grow.  At the moment he is not consistently accurate.  That was the knock on him coming out of college and it rings true today.  Not up for debate.

[BringBackOrton]

41 minutes ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

Rosen had a worse completion percentage yesterday and most of his yards came on that long TD where Kirk was so wide open, Peterman could have made that throw. Should Wilks and the Cardinals GM be in utter terror too?

Allen is statistically the worst QB in the NFL among active starters.

Edited October 8, 2018 by BringBackOrton

[Chicken Boo]

7 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Allen is statistically the worst QB in the NFL among active starters.

 

The truth is a hard pill to swallow for many.

 

Can Allen improve?  Of course he can, however, the here and now is reality.  Join us, folks.    

[billspro]

2 hours ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

Just makes me sad to see so many Bills fans burying their hand in the sand on Josh Allen. We all want him to work out. We've suffered long enough. No one is actively rooting for him to fail and we all know how bad QB's look like. I understand wanting to mark some of it down to him being a rookie but stop setting yourselves up to be disappointed. 

 

There's things that he's doing so poorly that has nothing to do with him being a rookie. He's just not good and it's a shame that they put no offensive talent around him that masks some of his issues but he has serious accuracy, timing, touch and intelligent issues that are too much to overcome.

 

I know he's 6'5, 237, mobile and has an incredible arm but it's crazy to me that McDermott and Beane banked their mortgages and their careers on a guy who struggled in the Mountain West Conference.

 

You just have a vendetta. Allen has shown good accuracy so far. He had four throw away yesterday and I see people like you attributing those throws to accuracy issues. Does he need to get better at reading defenses? Yes. His timing and touch has gotten better every game. If you just look at the box score then it looks like Allen had a bad game. He actually executed the game plan perfectly yesterday. He made some huge third down conversions, had a big running TD, didn’t hold the ball too long, and didn’t turn it over (that was on Holmes). The only off target throw was a low throw to KB (still could have been caught by an athletic WR). He has been growing as a QB, hopefully that continues because we need him to be the franchise.

 

Also, he led a perfect 4 minute drive to win the game and looked cool and collected the whole time.

 

[John from Riverside]

3 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Those throws are few and far between.  Kind of reminiscent of another QB that was here recently.

 

The very first thing I stated was that Josh has plenty of time to grow.  At the moment he is not consistently accurate.  That was the knock on him coming out of college and it rings true today.  Not up for debate.

What you say here is true

 

Edit....actually I should have read your post.

 

Josh Allen does NOT have a lot of time to throw......he has time if he gets the ball out quickly unfortunately he doesnt have pass targets that get separation quickly.

Edited October 8, 2018 by John from Riverside

[Jay_Fixit]

14 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

10-25 170 Yards 

 

all hail rosen.     

75 coming on a pass to a wide open Kirk.

 

Who’d also be the number 1 receiver on this team.

[billspro]

17 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Those throws are few and far between.  Kind of reminiscent of another QB that was here recently.

 

The very first thing I stated was that Josh has plenty of time to grow.  At the moment he is not consistently accurate.  That was the knock on him coming out of college and it rings true today.  Not up for debate.

 

I will debate you all day. His accuracy is not an issue. It wasn’t bad in college either. His completion percentage is bad but that is not because of accuracy issues. He had 4 throw away yesterday that were all smart decisions but hurt his completion percentage.

 

You are wrong. But if you like we can go through all the throws yesterday. He had one inaccurate throw that was low to KB.

[DrDawkinstein]

He's a Project Rookie. And for where everyone thought he would be right now, he looks much better than originally anticipated. Still has a LONG way to go, but these things dont happen overnight, or even in one season. If you need immediate satisfaction, you could always try putting your scrote in a microwave. Should be done in about 30 seconds.

[outsidethebox]

14 hours ago, Jpsredemption said:

I do believe I left the caveat for improvement... 

 

Flame away for actually having an opinion that the kid may not be great......plenty of analysts that break down his play week after week agree...just as they expressed concern throughout the entire draft process. 

 

Now that he's a Bill though he must be great. 

 

Not sure how you teach accuracy...

I will never question him as a person or a competitor. 

 

If I could have 53 players with his passion and fire I would. I just don't think he's very good. 

That must make you the Josh Allen of TBD.

You're worse than bad at trolling.

[Ol Dirty B]

1 hour ago, TFBillsfan said:

Was out of town this weekend, but recorded the game and watched it late last night. Josh is obviously still developing but overall he is growing. Complain about the playcalling and not throwing the ball all you want, but he’s still developing even with this gameplan. Anyone remember Big Ben’s first year? He rarely threw more than 10 passes a game. It’s providing Josh with more confidence, smaller sample size of his throws to assess in the film room and allowing him to mature reading defenses more effectively.

 

I’d prefer the Bills to take this approach compared to getting sacked 5 times per game with a receiving core that is weak. Asking him to throw it 25+ per game with our current offensive talent is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole! Have some patience and enjoy this season for what it is. They are a major work in progress. Defense looks like it’s corrected itself. Never expected Josh to come in day one a lite it up but he is by far the most talented QB, we’ve had since Kelly.  IMO, I look at Josh as a glass half full not half empty and overall like what I seem from him thus far. 2-2 as a starter with 5 TD’s. Expect with an upgraded OL and receiving core in his 2nd season and a year of experience plus another full offseason to grow, I’m excited about our future!

 

BTW....love the Bills bringing in Anderson to help this young man develop and lean on a experienced vet!

 

Eh... Big Ben had 295 attempts in 13 games for his rookie year. Rarely threw more than 10 passes is an incredible stretch. 

[Shaw66]

14 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’m marking you down as a NO vote on Allen, right?

I don't know.  Maybe undecided.  

[oldmanfan]

28 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Those throws are few and far between.  Kind of reminiscent of another QB that was here recently.

 

The very first thing I stated was that Josh has plenty of time to grow.  At the moment he is not consistently accurate.  That was the knock on him coming out of college and it rings true today.  Not up for debate.

The guys that are always accurate and never miss?  They wear gold jackets in August.  The kid is developing.

[PeterDude]

14 hours ago, Doc said:

I think this is starting to enter the crusade territory, which is a TOS violation.  I’d watch yourself OP. 

 

Give me a break...  Were you a hall monitor in school?

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

14 hours ago, Jpsredemption said:

With Allen looking as bad as he does, even though these two did absolutely nothing offensively to help his cause, McD and Beane must be in panic mode (Derek Anderson, really?). 

 

Not only do you have to rebuild an entire offense but your prized QB is beyond terrible. Maybe if they would have listened to the overwhelming majority of pundits they wouldn't have traded all their draft capital for a guy with suspect accuracy and pocket awareness. Couple this with underachieving at Wyoming and I'm not really sure why he was ever a consideration in the first round to begin with. 

 

If its me..and trust me I know this will not happen.. I am very seriously considering a QB with my top 10 pick next year if there isn't any progression. I know everyone wants to give it time but how often is a QB utterly awful only to turn it around and become great these days (Goff seems to be the exception to the rule - not ready to anoint Trubisky). 

 

So I'd be kicking my self in the rear if I were these guys. I gave up (2) crucial 2nd round picks that could have been used to bolster my roster even further and probably could have done so and skill gotten Josh Rosen had I stayed put. 

 

So go ahead and tell me it's too early. Some of us know when things are going to end poorly (EJ Manuel). My advice to Beane and McD is think long and hard this offseason and don't be blinded by reality...you're jobs may depend on it.