BuffaloBillies Posted October 5, 2018 Posted October 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, GG said: they didn't, but we now have about 3 1/2 games of film on Allen, which strongly support Dilfer's point. The hope was that the Minny game was a turning point for Allen, but he regressed vs GB Looked great for 60 minutes against Vikes (as a 17 pt road underdog, and it could have been even better minus 3 bad WR drops). Then he (and team) laid that stinky egg vs GB. I'm very curious to see what Sunday brings. I expect somewhere in-between, which will actually be improvement from the prior week.
Wayne Arnold Posted October 5, 2018 Posted October 5, 2018 1 hour ago, BigBuff423 said: No...no, it's not. He and Bean have bought themselves at least two more full seasons...the end of 2019 season is the earliest his seat starts to gain temperature. 2018 has been a total shitshow from the very beginning. If things dont get better, it will get very interesting. I think Beane will get a break simply because he’s the GM and will get an opportunity from the Pegulas to hire his own head coach.
GG Posted October 5, 2018 Posted October 5, 2018 5 minutes ago, BuffaloBillies said: Looked great for 60 minutes against Vikes (as a 17 pt road underdog, and it could have been even better minus 3 bad WR drops). Then he (and team) laid that stinky egg vs GB. I'm very curious to see what Sunday brings. I expect somewhere in-between, which will actually be improvement from the prior week. He looked ok vs Vikings. The biggest plays came on coverage break downs. His ball placement was still off. He's a work in project, and Dilfer is absolutely right that at this pace he's more likely to be ruined than nurtured. You cannot throw a raw QB out in the field with that supporting cast. Our only hope is that Allen's mind is solid as a rock to brush off the growing pains. Did you see the TD that Gordon caught last night? The Bills don't have anybody on the roster that makes that catch in between 2 DBs. 1
BuffaloBillies Posted October 5, 2018 Posted October 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, GG said: He looked ok vs Vikings. The biggest plays came on coverage break downs. His ball placement was still off. He's a work in project, and Dilfer is absolutely right that at this pace he's more likely to be ruined than nurtured. You cannot throw a raw QB out in the field with that supporting cast. Our only hope is that Allen's mind is solid as a rock to brush off the growing pains. Did you see the TD that Gordon caught last night? The Bills don't have anybody on the roster that makes that catch in between 2 DBs. Lack of supporting cast is certainly something we can agree on. We're only 4 new OLs and 2 new WRs away from having some semblance of an offense.
Peter Posted October 5, 2018 Posted October 5, 2018 (edited) McBeane have not done Josh any favors at all. Indeed, given the huge investment in assets we gave up to get him and the fact that he is raw, it is shocking what they have done (and not done) with this offense. I was not a huge fan of drafting him, but now that we have him and he seems to be such a great kid, I would have liked McBeane to have maximized Josh's opportunity for success or positive development. I think that McBeane have failed Josh. P.S. They also traded the one guy who knows the playbook and could have stepped in to avoid throwing Josh into the fire with substandard talent around him. Edited October 5, 2018 by Peter
Lurker Posted October 5, 2018 Posted October 5, 2018 I agree with Dilfer. The sophistication level of NFL defenses is nothing remotely close to what Allen has ever seen before. While none of the other rookie QBs have faced that degree of sophistication as well, they at least came from larger, more competitive schools/conferences with larger, more talented coaching staffs to help their development. Allen has all the physical tools. What he needs to learn is how to read defenses. With a terrible O-line and no WR help, that's a tough environment to do so. I suspect McBeane knew that going in and didn't plan to throw him into the fire so soon. Unfortunately, Plan A didn't work out with McCarron and here we are... 1 1
row_33 Posted October 5, 2018 Posted October 5, 2018 i didn't read all 4 pages but the chat with Dilfer was very good, he said that the NFL used to value size, then speed, but now it's "twinge" or the ability to react to a situation efficiently as it develops. Ryen's podcast is the best to me and I listen with a grain of salt as national scribes try to talk about a team I know too much about.
Lurker Posted October 5, 2018 Posted October 5, 2018 10 hours ago, Domdab99 said: Apples and oranges. Dilfer coming out of college did not have the potential or the skills that Allen has now. I wouldn't have started a talentless Trent Dilfer, either. These kind of posts are the dumbest thing on TSW. Sports history is littered with good/great coaches and talent evaluators who were meh players... 1
Peter Posted October 5, 2018 Posted October 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, Lurker said: I agree with Dilfer. The sophistication level of NFL defenses is nothing remotely close to what Allen has ever seen before. While none of the other rookie QBs have faced that degree of sophistication as well, they at least came from larger, more competitive schools/conferences with larger, more talented coaching staffs to help their development. Allen has all the physical tools. What he needs to learn is how to read defenses. With a terrible O-line and no WR help, that's a tough environment to do so. I suspect McBeane knew that going in and didn't plan to throw him into the fire so soon. Unfortunately, Plan A didn't work out with McCarron and here we are... I agree with most of what you state. McBeane, however, doubled down on their mistake by trading the only other guy who knows the playbook and could have been used instead of throwing Josh into the fire. He also was fairly inexpensive. P.S. The truth is that most QBs would struggle with the offense that McBeane put together. It was not very smart to then have to play our prized but very raw rookie QB and negatively affect his development as Dilfer has observed. One mistake after another . . . . 1
blacklabel Posted October 5, 2018 Posted October 5, 2018 11 hours ago, Success said: I’m very torn on this. For starters, we don’t have a choice. The selfish part of me wants to just see him play, now. I also like the idea that he’ll have a lot of game experience when they can finally surround him with talent, so he’ll be ready and we won’t have to go through the usual growing pains. But he’s really getting beat up out there, and a lot of this isn’t fair to him. This is where I'm at. I can also sense the competitor in Allen, he wants to be out there regardless of the situation. And I agree, the situation isn't very fair to him right now but I also believe this season can be a huge trial by fire with the hope that he can make some progress. If he shows positive signs by the end of the year with this OL and these skill position players, then I think that bodes well for his future and the team's future once they upgrade several offensive positions.
Dr. Fong Posted October 5, 2018 Posted October 5, 2018 This is why trading away Mccarron infuriated me. If this is a taking your lumps until there is enough cap room to field a big boy team next year year then why have your QB of the future or there taking shots behind the worst OL in football trying to throw the ball to the worst WR corps in football? It just makes no sense to me. I don’t understand what part of the process this is. Maybe I just don’t see the big picture, who knows? 1
Lurker Posted October 5, 2018 Posted October 5, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Peter said: The truth is that most QBs would struggle with the offense that McBeane put together. It's hard to evaluate talent in the NFL... I was really encouraged by the 'dream team' front office that Beane put together, thinking that we finally had a group of savvy football minds that could build a quality roster through the draft, FA and trades. Gaine left, but the others are still here--and have failed miserably. Virtually every move they've made has been a dud. And now they're risking the prize QB prospect with a Pop Warner offensive depth chart. Edited October 5, 2018 by Lurker 1
Peter Posted October 5, 2018 Posted October 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Lurker said: It's hard to evaluate talent in the NFL... I was really encouraged by the 'dream team' front office that Beane put together, thinking that we finally had a group of savvy football minds that could build a quality roster through the draft, FA and trades. Gaine left, but the others are still here--and have failed miserably. Virtually every move they've made has been a dud. Ad now they're risking the prize QB prospect with a Pop Warner offensive depth chart. So sad, but so true.
Wayne Arnold Posted October 5, 2018 Posted October 5, 2018 35 minutes ago, BuffaloBillies said: Lack of supporting cast is certainly something we can agree on. We're only 4 new OLs and 2 new WRs away from having some semblance of an offense. The ‘poor personnel on the OLine and at WR’ thing is so overblown. Below-average, Yes. But people act like Allen has Division 3 walk-ons protecting him. He’s been given more time than he’s taken. Daboll has to protect him better with the scheme.
blacklabel Posted October 5, 2018 Posted October 5, 2018 11 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Allen had a much rougher road with a lot more adversity - needing to go Juco, writing 1000 letters trying to get a shot, then once he did get a shot busting up his shoulder and having to go through the rehab and battle his way back into form. While he had eligibility left because of his injury and his JUCO start, Allen graduated last December. In theory, all those experiences should help to make him stronger and more resilient. Doesn't mean I think the way we're handling him is anywhere close to right. Or, to tie threads together, I question the "strategy" Good stuff all the way around, Hap. On one hand, I feel like JA has the resiliency and competitiveness to make it through this season with what he has right now. I'd hope that it just makes him more mentally (and probably physically) tougher and he gains valuable experience in doing what Dilfer says is needed: learning how to better play the game. It may take a while but at some point or another, those true franchise QBs have a drive, or a quarter, or a whole game where the switch flips on and they really "get it" and start playing the position up to their full potential. The flip side of this, unfortunately, is that some QBs never get the switch to flip on. I sincerely hope this doesn't happen with JA. I admit, my first reaction on draft night was, "They took the wrong Josh!" but I've warmed up to the kid. I like his attitude, I like that he has a lot of respect already from his teammates, I like hearing guys like Shady talk about the "swagger" he has because I believe a high level of confidence is paramount to the QB position. Another encouraging thing I heard right from JA himself this week was him stating how he doesn't have to be the hero on every play, or doesn't have to think that every play is going to be a big one. Against GB, as the game wore on, I saw him get more antsy and less comfortable in the pocket because he was dying to make a play. His INT in the end zone? He was hoping one of his guys could go up and get it. Even though it's a negative to throw a pick, at this stage of his development, I don't care how many picks he throws per game (well, I mean, keep it under 3, I would say) because it means he's not afraid to take chances. And we just watched a dude for three full seasons that really didn't take very many chances. So it's a breath of fresh air to have a QB that is not afraid to sling it. I believe that at his ceiling, Josh Allen can be Brett Favre. He can be that gunslinger-type that usually wows you with his throws and abilities but he also might bum you out from time to time with a real, "WTF?" play or a bad INT. So be it, though. No player is perfect. Sometimes you'd think that's what some Bills fans are expecting from not only their QB but the entire roster, coaching & front office staffs. Mistakes will be made. That's how we learn. Trial and error. 2018 is all about that, really. And if by season's end in 2020 things aren't where they should be, welp, try, try again! Because the sport isn't going anywhere and no matter how much this team might piss you off, neither are you. (Not you, Hapless, I mean the "general you.")
BuffaloBillies Posted October 5, 2018 Posted October 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said: The ‘poor personnel on the OLine and at WR’ thing is so overblown. Below-average, Yes. But people act like Allen has Division 3 walk-ons protecting him. He’s been given more time than he’s taken. Daboll has to protect him better with the scheme. FOUR (4) below-average OLine and TWO (2) below-average WRs is not at all overblown. It's a recipe for the disaster we're witnessing. 2
John from Riverside Posted October 5, 2018 Posted October 5, 2018 Everyone knows that Josh Allen would have been better served to sit a year..... But....the train has left the station 1
row_33 Posted October 5, 2018 Posted October 5, 2018 10 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Everyone knows that Josh Allen would have been better served to sit a year..... But....the train has left the station inertia is no fun when you have to face the inevitable unprepared
TheBrownBear Posted October 5, 2018 Posted October 5, 2018 I'm more worried about Allen getting physically killed, than I am about his psyche. His mental makeup seems pretty solid.
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