Trent Dilfer: "I don't think Josh Allen should be playing"

[bills11]

21 minutes ago, folz said:

I think we can all agree that Josh isn't really ready yet. He has a lot to learn. And we can also agree that he is not in the best position to succeed (with the way the O-line and WRs have been performing). And we have all seen QBs flame out seemingly due to being thrown to the wolves too early on a bad team.

 

But, Allen is smart, seems to be a tough-minded kid, knows what hard work is, hasn't been handed things to him on a silver platter, is very competitive, etc. So I really don't think he will be ruined by being put in his current position. That's not to say he will automatically become a franchise QB, he will have to prove that he has the mentality/temperament for it (reading defenses, going through his progressions, internal clock, pocket awareness, etc.). But I don't think taking a lot of sacks or throwing a lot of picks will ruin this kid (provided he doesn't get hurt). So, believing that about him, I'm kind of glad that he will get a lot of playing experience this year, so that he's ready to take a big step next year. And hopefully with each game, the game will start slowing down for him, like Frazier says is starting to happen for Edmunds.

 

It won't look pretty at times, he will take some big hits and make some embarrassing plays, which is why I can understand Dilfer's stance (as a guy who is rooting for Josh and knows what that feels like). But again, I think the experience he will gain this year will be invaluable going forward.

 

 

Definetely..but the issue i will always have is not having better structure..if youre gonna take the raw prospect with upside over the more polished passers then structure is the most prudent. Allen should never have to throw the ball 40 times this year like he nearly did last game..he needs to be ina  situation where he has good protection and a running game to rely on while growing..and when hes not seeing something who does he go to..darnold has mcown ...baker has tyrod and stanton...rosen has bradford..Allen isnt gonna learn anything from peterman.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

Lol trent dilfer wishes he had half the talent of josh allen.

 

It's strange we always talk about talent when it comes to QB. Size, arm strength, speed, and strength are probably the least important characteristics a QB needs to be successful. 

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

The ten other things are the rest of the offense.

 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

1) a lot of attack a guy’s ability here rather than challenge his point of view.  Many people don’t think Allen should be playing.  Somehow, if Joe Montana said this, some fans would find a way to bash him.

 

2). For those bashing TD, his college career was fair superior over Allen’s: 30 td to 5 int, 64% passer, 9th in the heisman, and went 6th overall.   It Josh Allen has the greatest “potential “ of any qb in history!  Dude also won a SB.  

 

3) why does this take bother people?  This offense sucks, Allen was fair from a finished product, and it seems like he can develop some bad habits playing on a sucky team. 

29 minutes ago, TheTruthHurts said:

It's strange we always talk about talent when it comes to QB. Size, arm strength, speed, and strength are probably the least important characteristics a QB needs to be successful. 

 

 

Fact: Josh Allen is the only qb ever drafted with talent. 

1 hour ago, Domdab99 said:

Apples and oranges.

 

Dilfer coming out of college did not have the potential or the skills that Allen has now. 

 

I wouldn't have started a talentless Trent Dilfer, either. 

Your post is based on nothing. 

 

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/trent-dilfer-1.html

1 hour ago, MJS said:

Darnold is the one playing badly out there. He should be starting but Allen shouldn't? Please.

SD isn’t playing good but Allen is literally the lowest rated qb in the nfl.  Why is it such a hot take that a 56% passer from the MWC night not be ready to start in the nfl? Especially on a dog ? offense. 

[folz]

39 minutes ago, bills11 said:

Definetely..but the issue i will always have is not having better structure..if youre gonna take the raw prospect with upside over the more polished passers then structure is the most prudent. Allen should never have to throw the ball 40 times this year like he nearly did last game..he needs to be ina  situation where he has good protection and a running game to rely on while growing..and when hes not seeing something who does he go to..darnold has mcown ...baker has tyrod and stanton...rosen has bradford..Allen isnt gonna learn anything from peterman.

 

Obviously they only had a choice of Allen or Rosen and maybe they just didn't believe in Rosen for some reason. But, I do agree with you that it would've been a much better situation for Josh if he had a veteran QB as a mentor (and that is on the FO). The O-line and lack of a running game is kind of a bad break situation, I think. The unexpected loss of Wood and Incognito really hurt the team's plans. With a bad draft for O-linemen (and the focus on getting our QB) and no extra money in the coffers for some stud free agent O-linemen, the loss of those two players really set the plan back a bit. They were expecting to have a good run game originally. If Wood and Incognito had come back, you would be starting the same 5 linemen as the year before with Shady, Ivory, and Murphy in the backfield. I do think Dabol needs to be much more stubborn with the run game moving forward though. As you said, Josh shouldn't be throwing 30+ times a game. And he needs to give Allen some short, easy throws early in games to give him some confidence and to get him in a rhythm. Throw the ball to Shady early on screens or short crossing routes. Kills two birds with one stone, getting your best offensive player involved and giving your rookie QB some confidence.

 

Things definitely could have been set up a bit better for Josh to be starting, which sucks for this year, but I still don't think it will ruin the kid. I think he has a lot of fortitude. And as Peyton Manning said about his rookie year, paraphrasing, I learned a lot of valuable lessons in some really bad games.

Edited October 5, 2018 by folz

[Ol Dirty B]

6 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

1) a lot of attack a guy’s ability here rather than challenge his point of view.  Many people don’t think Allen should be playing.  Somehow, if Joe Montana said this, some fans would find a way to bash him.

 

2). For those bashing TD, his college career was fair superior over Allen’s: 30 td to 5 int, 64% passer, 9th in the heisman, and went 6th overall.   It Josh Allen has the greatest “potential “ of any qb in history!  Dude also won a SB.  

 

3) why does this take bother people?  This offense sucks, Allen was fair from a finished product, and it seems like he can develop some bad habits playing on a sucky team. 

Fact: Josh Allen is the only qb ever drafted with talent. 

Your post is based on nothing. 

 

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/trent-dilfer-1.html

SD isn’t playing good but Allen is literally the lowest rated qb in the nfl.  Why is it such a hot take that a 56% passer from the MWC night not be ready to start in the nfl? Especially on a dog ? offense. 

 

Spot on. I don't understand the replies from posters attacking Dilfer. He's not saying Allen sucks and he'll never be good like some commentators have.

 

He's coming from a place where he wants Allen to succeed, and is just giving his opinion on how to make it happen. The comments don't seem mean spirited or negative on Allen at all. I wonder if these people even read the quotes. I'm not saying he's right, no proven method to developing a QB exists and never will. He does make some good points and brings his own experience into it. Which is far more interesting to me than reading something about how dilfer sucks and Allen is better.

[Dr.Sack]

We will always have the Minnesota game type years from now. 

Edited October 5, 2018 by Dr.Sack

[LABILLBACKER]

The biggest mistake McB made this offseason was not acquiring a decent veteran mentor qb. And No, neither Peterman nor McCarron qualify.  Now he's got to be forced into the fire with a lousy offensive line &  wide receiver group. I also blame Daboll for bizarre play calling in the LA & GB games. 

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, Ol Dirty B said:

 

Spot on. I don't understand the replies from posters attacking Dilfer. He's not saying Allen sucks and he'll never be good like some commentators have.

 

He's coming from a place where he wants Allen to succeed, and is just giving his opinion on how to make it happen. The comments don't seem mean spirited or negative on Allen at all. I wonder if these people even read the quotes. I'm not saying he's right, no proven method to developing a QB exists and never will. He does make some good points and brings his own experience into it. Which is far more interesting to me than reading something about how dilfer sucks and Allen is better.

I actually listen to the podcast and Dilfer seemed like he liked Allen.  Just thought he shouldn’t play yet.  As a reformed homer, I wonder if I was completely irrational as some of these fans.

 

side note, but Ryen R has an awesome podcast comparing nfl qbs to girlfriends. 

1 minute ago, Dr.Sack said:

We will always have the Minnesota game type years from now. 

Along with EJ’s Carolina game, Trent’s SD game, Fitz’s NE game, and JP’s Houston game. ?

[Peace Frog]

Aikman and Manning got destroyed their first year and turned out all right.  Josh can either play or he can't.

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, QB Bills said:

Ughhh.. Shut up dilfer. Good is good.

  

If Allen flames out then he just wasn't good enough. 

 

 

Flaming out happens for lots of reasons and one of them is that the guy was ruined. See Joey Harrington and David Carr for two of many.

 

 

44 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Aikman and Manning got destroyed their first year and turned out all right.  Josh can either play or he can't.

 

 

That doesn't come even close to following logically. If anyone had said, "Absolutely every QB needs a year or two on the bench," it would be an excellent piece of evidence in attacking that argument. But that's not what people are saying. They're saying some guys need development time. And pretty much everyone says that. Including McDermott and Josh Allen himself.

 

Yeah, some guys have tough first years and do fine. Aikman and Manning were widely considered to be NFL-ready. So, yeah, some guys, especially the ones who are NFL-ready, can have tough first years and develop. Others can't, especially the ones who are widely considered to need development time.

 

And our guy was widely considered to need a lot of development time.

 

I'm hoping he succeeds anyway, of course. But I fear they could have handled this a lot better and that they may be at least setting him back.

 

 

Edited October 5, 2018 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, VW82 said:

 

Sorry forgot the link. It's up now.

 

Yes Dilfer loves Allen. I think his perspective closely resembled that of the concerned father who was watching his son needlessly go through the same trials and tribulations that he had 20 some years earlier. He repeatedly said how his heart was breaking for the kid. I think he genuinely cares, and believes in him too. It's the timing and the situation, or as you said "the strategy." Culture over everything, right?  

 

The adversity aspect is interesting to me. In theory it makes a ton of sense. That said, if Josh is so much more mature because of the road he took to get to the NFL, why doesn't it show to people like Dilfer who claim he just isn't ready? There's a bit of a disconnect there. 

 

 

 

Maturity and readiness are two very different things.

 

I don't have the slightest concern about Allen's maturity. I question his readiness.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

 

Fact: Josh Allen is the only qb ever drafted with talent. 

 

If all you talk about with a QB is the talent it means he doesn't know how to play QB. That's a fact. 

 

The talent just increases a QBs ability to make throws, but making the decision comes 1st. All we've ever drafted since I've been a fan are QBs with talent. Never the QB that has great decision making, great pocket awareness, great accuracy, or great anticipation. 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2018 by TheTruthHurts

[billsredneck1]

5 hours ago, BigDingus said:

 

I disagree with us not having a choice though. We could sign any number of veterans and let them take the beat down (something we should've done this offseason anyway). Hell, we could've kept McCarron if we didn't even want that. And as much as I don't think Peterman offers us any great chance to win, you made this whole offseason about EARNING the starting spot, said Peterman EARNED it, then yanked him after a half for what? Throwing 2 picks & not moving the offense? Well Allen's done that in a couple games now too, it was kind of easy to see that was going to happen 1 way or another MONTHS AGO.

If the season is lost, if the offense is going to suck no matter what, if our QB is going to get sacked like crazy, if regardless of who we put behind center is going to throw a bunch of picks, why can't you throw in any other warm body instead of the guy who NEEDED to sit, learn and develop, instead of take an epic beatdown every week? Man, I'd rather watch Kaepernick kneel every 3rd & long on the field than watch our rookie mindlessly spin-move to his blindside, right into an oncoming rusher who knocks his block off time & time again! I just feel so aggravated that with an awful O-line, awful WR's, no veteran QB, and no plan-B, we take the one QB out of the group that is least likely to succeed in that situation...

And it's especially upsetting when you read back at Allen's pre-draft breakdowns, where his biggest gifts are his physical attributes but his most glaring weaknesses signal "NEEDS TO DEVELOP & SIGNIFICANTLY IMPROVE" if he's ever to have an even semi-decent chance of succeeding in the league. How many QB's have the Bills successfully developed in the modern era in their entire history!?!? They didn't even develop Jim Kelly from the start...as he played 2 years of pro football before even suiting up for the Bills. Sure wasn't Todd Collins, Alex Van Pelt, JP Losman, EJ Manuel, Jeff Tuel, Rob Johnson, Trent Edwards... Different coaching staffs, different personnel, I know. It's just hard to see us succeeding in that regard where others could not. I really, REALLY hope we do though.

some good points.

 

my first gripe is getting rid of ajm.  there is no reason to justify that move.

peterman won the qb competition.  then in a game that the team, as a whole was not prepared for and in a nonstop torrential downpour, yanking nate was another stupid move.  that erased the entire effort from may to sept.

 

they should have stuck with nate for the first 4 weeks no matter what. the win against the vikes doesn't mean so much after the spanking we got from the packers and the beating our rookie has taken so far.

 

i think the chances of josh making it through every game without getting banged up or concussed are at best 50/50.

 

it seems like there's been some knee jerk decisions and now they are stuck. all we can do is pray josh makes it through the season in one piece mentally as well physically.

 

 

as far as the oline goes, i'd bet a different line coach could make this line function much better with a lot less chaos. teflon juan is the vlad ducasse of line coaches.....imo.

 

Edited October 5, 2018 by billsredneck1

[billsredneck1]

4 hours ago, bills11 said:

Definetely..but the issue i will always have is not having better structure..if youre gonna take the raw prospect with upside over the more polished passers then structure is the most prudent. Allen should never have to throw the ball 40 times this year like he nearly did last game..he needs to be ina  situation where he has good protection and a running game to rely on while growing..and when hes not seeing something who does he go to..darnold has mcown ...baker has tyrod and stanton...rosen has bradford..Allen isnt gonna learn anything from peterman.

he needs jim kelly on the sideline....seriously,  i think dabol needs to be on the sideline.

[tumaro02]

Everyone has opinion  which is fine. However, it is what it is. Then again their is always the greatest word in sports talk and analysis if one's opinion turns out to be wrong, "OOPS!"

[billsfan1959]

I think most people on this board would have preferred for Allen to sit this year, or at least a good portion of the year. That is not how it worked out and we have what we have at this point. Allen is certainly struggling right now; however, it truly is difficult to determine his level of readiness, given the lack of quality talent around him. I do not think the adversity he is experiencing right now will "ruin" him, I do like a lot of what I see with him, and I think he certainly has the potential to be very good.

 

I liken his situation to Jarred Goff's first year. Goff was on a team that was slightly better in offensive talent (a better O-line, good running back, and not much at the receiver position) and not terribly imaginative from an offensive play calling perspective. He received a lot of criticism for his play and there were many who questioned if he would ever develop into a franchise caliber QB.

 

In 7 starts, Goff completed 54% of his passes, averaged 155 yards per game and 5.3 yards per pass, had 5 TDs and 7 INTs, was sacked almost 4 times per game, averaged 12 points per game, and lost every game

 

In 3 starts, Allen is completing 55% of his passes, averaging 197 yards per game and 7 yards per pass, has 2 TDs and 4 INTs, is sacked 5 times per game, averaging 18 points per game, and is 1-2

 

I am not saying Allen will develop into what we are seeing right now with Goff, because I have no idea at this point - nobody does. Anyone who expected more from him at this point, on this team, was not being realistic. We can have debates all day long about whether or not he should be playing, or whether or not he can be "ruined" by the situation he finds himself in. It doesn't matter at this point - all we can do is wait and see. Again, there is a lot I like in this kid, and I am looking forward to seeing if he shows the improvement he needs to show in his development throughout the remainder of this year. Here's hoping...

[Boca BIlls]

No better way to learn then by playing. You either will have it at QB or you wont, sitting will not make you better. You still learn the same monday-saturday. Brady, Brees, Rodgers all would have been fine starting day one. 

Edited October 5, 2018 by Boca BIlls

[SoTier]

7 hours ago, Success said:

I’m very torn on this. For starters, we don’t have a choice.

 

The selfish part of me wants to just see him play, now.  I also like the idea that he’ll have a lot of game experience when they can finally surround him with talent, so he’ll be ready and we won’t have to go through the usual growing pains.

 

But he’s really getting beat up out there, and a lot of this isn’t fair to him.

 

Who's fault is it that there's nobody else to start but Allen?  I'll say what Dilfer was too circumspect to say:  McDermott and Beane are not only setting up Allen to fail, they're using him as a fail-safe excuse to keep their jobs despite the awful team they've put on the field.  

[H2o]

This is the same guy who said David Fales had "all the tools" and is a "franchise QB"..... Yeah, Trent Dilfer.