Trent Dilfer: "I don't think Josh Allen should be playing"

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, ctk232 said:

1) Daboll needs to step up and prove he's still an OC of NFL caliber. That being said, what exactly does he have to work with? A rookie QB, an average yet porous OL, handless receivers, an aging East/West RB, and a broken TE in Clay. Let's have the Daboll criticism start next year. That being said, Daboll could use this year to really help Allen along. We all know teams will blitz on 3rd down until we demonstrate we can pick it up - so plan for that, have the playcall in early, let Allen get to the line and see the defense. Give him 2 short hot routes on either side of the line and let him diagnose and execute. 

2) Agreed - you think he's letting the pressure of starting and being QB1 get to him a little? I think he'll learn this eventually, but I see a kid so desperate to prove himself and wants to win so badly that he'll make these in the moment mistakes. But yes, hopefully he learns.

3) See 1 - we all know teams will blitz the bejesus out of Allen until he beats it. So give him playcalls and packages that let him do that. Hell, develop a whole new offensive blitz prevent package if you have to. But this is something that can be prepared ahead of time and developed in practices.

 

darn good and honest assessment...nicely done........Josh is under multiple pressures including self imposed desire to succeed.......of course he has the expected faults of a rookie.....but Daboll/play calling and Castillo/OL are NOT doing him ANY favors...........

[Peter]

17 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

I think an All Pro center is the quickest thing that can turn this offense around. We need a mean SOB anchoring that line, losing Eric Wood killed us. Unless AJ Green or Julio Jones is available, I want the meanest center or LG we can find with that 1st pick.

 

I agree.

 

It also would be nice to have a nasty all pro guard . . . oh wait, we had one of those.

[Mrbojanglezs]

Allen doesn't seem phased by it and realizes each rep and each new look he's getting is a valuable experience... so if Allen isn't shaken up by it there's no harm in him playing and he will only get better. Dilfer was probably just mentally weaker. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

..guys like Dilfer, Sims, Palmer, etc may not have had decent NFL careers or glowing stats, but they all seem to be pretty good evaluators of QB talent.......and these former NFL QB's all favor Josh in their analyses versus the all knowing urinalists......Steve Young said, "more collegiate QB's fail versus succeed at the NFL level due to the speed and complexity of the game".....so this is a prolonged and probably painful, drawn out developmental process for the youngster......just hope this kid's moxy, grit, determination and respect for the game doesn't force him to bear the TOTAL WEIGHT on his shoulders, expecting to overcome all of the shortcomings around him.....you can fill in the blanks with those..........

[DuckyBoys]

I take anything these guys say with a grain of salt.  What to David Carr, Jordan Palmer, Trent Dilfer, Chris Simms have in common?  They all failed as NFL qbs.  I sat though dozens of Bucs home games and Trent was horrible.  His post games were usually filled with finger pointing and excuse making.  They guy shrunk from pressure and was scared to get hit.  Bucs had that high pick invested so they stuck with him for way too long .  He wasnt any better even when he had arguably the best modern era defense with the ravens along with  a great running game they won despite him .  Guy could have been put into the 49ers system under Bill Walsh and he would have sucked.  QBs who are scared to get him and scared to push the ball downfield rarely if ever fix those traits.  Allen hasnt shown any of that. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Well Trent, the Bills don’t really have a choice now do they? 

 

Your options are Nate “Interception” Peterman or a street free agent. 

 

 

[Augie]

7 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Well Trent, the Bills don’t really have a choice now do they? 

 

Your options are Nate “Interception” Peterman or a street free agent. 

 

 

 

I happen to agree with Trent. I also support the FO for the most part....but if I had to name the worst mistake they’ve made, I’d have to start with not having a viable vet QB. Peterman fooled them, and I doubt AJ would be any better.  I hope Josh survives mentally and physically. I’m not really worried about our record this year, but you can’t lose the locker room by getting thrashed by 40+ every week. 

[Radar]

Trent should not have been starting.

[VW82]

5 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

This is actually something that can be accomplished.

1) Some of the sacks are not guys getting beat, they are protection failures.  "How do they fail to see not one, but two, linebackers coming up the middle?" 

Daboll: Fix it.

2) Allen is trying too hard at times and needs to throw it away and not take a 10 yd loss.  He knows this.  He says this.  Hopefully he learns this.

3) I don't know about more conservative, but different gameplan, more appropriate for down and distance and with clear checkdowns all the time, Yes.

 

 

I think 80-90% of the protection issues and holding the ball too long is QB pre-snap stuff. It's not Daboll other than to whatever degree he isn't successfully developing Allen in that area.

 

If you blind-folded Brady or Rivers or Rodgers or any of the great pocket passers until after the ball was snapped, and forced them to diagnose coverage based solely on who moved where they'd hold the ball too long and get sacked just as frequently.

 

It's too much to ask of any QB to drop back and "find the open guy" every time without the benefit of some foresight. You need to be able to figure out what the defense is trying to do, and either know where you're going before the ball is snapped, or manipulate the defense into something favourable if that option isn't there. Allen has no chance without some level of sophistication at the line, and right now he's the least sophisticated QB in the NFL (and probably down the list compared to some of the current college guys as well). It's actually a testament to how naturally gifted he is that he's been able to have any success so far. 

 

Tl;dr I'm not sure how much a different game plan will really help outside of the first scripted drive, or before the other team adjusts. 

Edited October 5, 2018 by VW82

[Saint Doug]

Reading between the lines, maybe Dilfer wants a job as a QB coach for Allen?  I wouldn’t be against it considering we don’t have one. 

[Augie]

58 minutes ago, Radar said:

Trent should not have been starting.

 

He never became what was hoped for, and it could be partly because of the way he was used early. But Trent does have a SB ring, so there’s that. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, VW82 said:

I think 80-90% of the protection issues and holding the ball too long is QB pre-snap stuff. It's not Daboll other than to whatever degree he isn't successfully developing Allen in that area.

 

I think you're mistaken. 

 

As evidence I offer a thread I started elsewhere, which includes pictures from all-22, and later in a link to an Eric Wood interview about working with a young QB and how he as center took on the role of setting the protections.

 

Yes, Allen does hold the ball too long sometimes or try to extend the play when he should throw it away, and yes, sometimes he misses a blitz pickup.  That's not 80-90% though.

[Buddy Hix]

Are there people who think differently? Seems like a no-brainer, the kid needs more time to learn but the Bills got burned by believing in Peterman, again.

 

Im praying Allen can pick up the reading and processing. I read he did really well on the Wonderlic, so maybe he is sharp enough to learn quick and avoid getting hammered every week.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, Buddy Hix said:

Im praying Allen can pick up the reading and processing. I read he did really well on the Wonderlic, so maybe he is sharp enough to learn quick and avoid getting hammered every week.

 

You can tell by Daboll's reaction in pressers that he thinks well of Josh's ability to learn and to understand what he sees on film - in the QB room.

Being able to recognize patterns and react on the field with 300 lb behemoths trying to rip off your head is something else.

 

[The_Dude]

This whole thing has all the makings of a catastrophe. 

[Zerovoltz]

8 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

This is what I don't get. 

 

Yeah, Allen sucked last game. He was also really good the week before against the Vikings.

 

But what has Darnold done to show he should be starting up to this point?

 

....I don't know if this is the answer or not...but I think it was/is perceived and continues to be thought, that Darnold was a fairly NFL ready product coming out of college....that isn't the same as a GOOD QB.....but that his foundational skills, technique, reps taken, playing against high level competition....he'd been exposed to a lot of that in college and that his next steps developing would be from taking reps on the NFL field, getting used to the speed of that game, faster players and all that.....in other words, Yes, Darnold isn't playing well, but again, the idea is that his development toward playing well will come from NFL reps.  There isn't anything left for him to do on a bench.  That isn't the percieved case with Allen (and I've said it all over this board when making the argument for him to be sitting)  ....I'll say it again.  Allen was always going to be a project...the rare guy coming out of college who would actually benefit by being on the bench, practicing, improving his technique, learning to read a defesne, getting used to the speed of the game.  HE DIDNT GET ANY OF THIS IN COLLEGE like the other prospects did.  

 

As mentioned several times prior....Knowing your roster is poor on offense...knowing it's going to be a lost year while you wait to get out of cap hell...AND coming off an unexpected playoff birth, thus giving your coaching staff a big credibility boost....you had all the goodwill and support you'd need to withstand a throwaway season keeping Allen on the bench ALL YEAR to get him ready for next year, when you have money to spend, a high draft pick to spend on something good....etc.  

 

By failing to get a servicable QB body, the staff has already completely squandered the goodwill of the fans, and their playoff drought breaking credentials.  If the Bills looked awful with Mike Glennon or someone like that at QB this year, you all would be upset, but halfway through the year, you'd all eventually reconcile your dissapointment with the hope that the Staff that broke the drought knew waht they were doing, that Allen was a project that needed time and that 2019 was really going to be a fun and hopeful time to look forward to.  Now, if Allen doesn't show improvement, etc....you go into 2019 with some wondering if you need to look at QB again, need a new staff again, if anyone will want to come to Buffalo to play.

 

To summarized.  Allen on bench for 2018 = Hope for 2019, excitement to see Allens progress, excitement for the free agent and draft aquisitions.  Hope abounds.

 

Allen on field for 2018 =  Doubt about the competancy of the staff.  Doubt about talent evaluation.  And if Allen shows no progress, then doubt about the QB situation, doubt that any good FA will want to show up for a team that might need to start over at QB and (by default) with yet another FO.

 

Basically, the entire 3 year future of the franchise now rides ENTIRELY on what Josh Allen does with the rest of this season.

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, Zerovotlz said:

 

....I don't know if this is the answer or not...but I think it was/is perceived and continues to be thought, that Darnold was a fairly NFL ready product coming out of college....that isn't the same as a GOOD QB.....but that his foundational skills, technique, reps taken, playing against high level competition....he'd been exposed to a lot of that in college and that his next steps developing would be from taking reps on the NFL field, getting used to the speed of that game, faster players and all that.....in other words, Yes, Darnold isn't playing well, but again, the idea is that his development toward playing well will come from NFL reps.  There isn't anything left for him to do on a bench.  That isn't the percieved case with Allen (and I've said it all over this board when making the argument for him to be sitting)  ....I'll say it again.  Allen was always going to be a project...the rare guy coming out of college who would actually benefit by being on the bench, practicing, improving his technique, learning to read a defesne, getting used to the speed of the game.  HE DIDNT GET ANY OF THIS IN COLLEGE like the other prospects did.  

 

As mentioned several times prior....Knowing your roster is poor on offense...knowing it's going to be a lost year while you wait to get out of cap hell...AND coming off an unexpected playoff birth, thus giving your coaching staff a big credibility boost....you had all the goodwill and support you'd need to withstand a throwaway season keeping Allen on the bench ALL YEAR to get him ready for next year, when you have money to spend, a high draft pick to spend on something good....etc.  

 

By failing to get a servicable QB body, the staff has already completely squandered the goodwill of the fans, and their playoff drought breaking credentials.  If the Bills looked awful with Mike Glennon or someone like that at QB this year, you all would be upset, but halfway through the year, you'd all eventually reconcile your dissapointment with the hope that the Staff that broke the drought knew waht they were doing, that Allen was a project that needed time and that 2019 was really going to be a fun and hopeful time to look forward to.  Now, if Allen doesn't show improvement, etc....you go into 2019 with some wondering if you need to look at QB again, need a new staff again, if anyone will want to come to Buffalo to play.

 

To summarized.  Allen on bench for 2018 = Hope for 2019, excitement to see Allens progress, excitement for the free agent and draft aquisitions.  Hope abounds.

 

Allen on field for 2018 =  Doubt about the competancy of the staff.  Doubt about talent evaluation.  And if Allen shows no progress, then doubt about the QB situation, doubt that any good FA will want to show up for a team that might need to start over at QB and (by default) with yet another FO.

 

Basically, the entire 3 year future of the franchise now rides ENTIRELY on what Josh Allen does with the rest of this season.

There's so much wrong with this post I don't know where to begin other than to say your last sentence is one of the dumbest things I have ever had the misfortune of sort of but not really reading.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, The_Dude said:

This whole thing has all the makings of a catastrophe. 

 

I think you're giving an awfully large benefit of the doubt there (no jive)

 

[Ol Dirty B]

2 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

There's so much wrong with this post I don't know where to begin other than to say your last sentence is one of the dumbest things I have ever had the misfortune of sort of but not really reading.

 

Yea... you really disproved him there. Solid post. You made so many good points.

 

I don't agree with his last sentence either, but his post didn't deserve that kind of response.

 

But when you can't say anything meaningful, go and insult.

[Nihilarian]

22 hours ago, QB Bills said:

Ughhh.. Shut up dilfer. Good is good.

 

If Allen flames out then he just wasn't good enough. 

Dilfer was saying this before the draft that Allen wasn't ready to start day one. This kid could be another Mahomes if allowed to sit and learn.