P-A-T-I-E-N-C-E

[Freddie's Dead]

25 minutes ago, H2o said:

 

So Josh has to snatch the pebble from McD's hand?

[SoTier]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

It's funny.

When McDermott/Beane came in, Bills fans universally agreed that a full rebuild was needed and welcomed. Whaley/Brandon/Rex had left behind a toxic dumpster fire from top to bottom, a salary cap mess, and an awful team culture. EVERYTHING needed to be flushed. The Bills needed to start from scratch and build from the ground up. No one disputed this.

The fans -- supposedly ready for said rebuild to begin -- all said "we trust the process!". They all agreed that any rookie QB should get at least a couple years to prove himself. Most were fine with said rookie QB not even PLAYING this year. Everyone knew, also, that the team was taking their "salary cap medicine" this year, and likely wouldn't be competitive because of it.

So the season starts, our raw rookie QB looks like a raw rookie QB, and at the FIRST SIGN OF ADVERSITY in the second year of a complete rebuild, fans are jumping ship and calling for the coach to be fired. 

I suppose the team making the playoffs in year 1 of McDermott's tenure accelerated the timeline in the minds of many fans. It shouldn't have. Anyone with a reasonable amount of sense could look at this roster and this astronomical amount of dead money and conclude that 2018 was all about building and growing.

For the past 18 years, the Bills franchise put on band-aid after band-aid, refusing to ever tear it all down and go through a proper rebuild. Most fans screamed from the top of their lungs that a full rebuild was needed. Finally...FINALLY...the rebuild begins, and what happens? "Waaahhhh!!! FIRE McDERMOTT! FIRE BEANE! WAHHHHHH"

Bills fans are the worst sometimes.

Oh, and one more important thing to remember: Beane/McDermott are NOT responsible for anything that happened prior to last year. So for anyone saying "we've been rebuilding for 18 years!" or talking about how they've lost patience: Too bad for you. You obviously don't get it. These guys can only control what's happening NOW, and they're trying to build a TEAM (not just a collection of talent, Whaley-style), and build it the right way. If you can't be patient enough to stick with it, then again...that's too bad for you.

 

 

Support was only "universal" for a "complete rebuild" in your own mind.   Just because you jumped on the McDermott/Beane clownwagon from Day 1 and dismissed the opinions of many other fans who were skeptical or unsure about the current regime as being "stupid" or "negative" or "unrealistic" doesn't mean that they didn't exist.  Get a clue.  Not EVERYONE was on board with the BS that McDermott and Beane have been shoveling in the name of "planning for the future".  Maybe you should check out the TSW threads on the Watson and Dareus trades. You'll find plenty of doubters in those threads, so don't even try to pretend that fan discontent with the McDermott/Beane clownshow is simply a response to the Bills being totally uncompetitive in 3 of their first 4 games, although there's that, too.

[corta765]

In general terms yes I think a lot of fans actually wouldn't disagree with you and are fine with:

-Drafting a touted QB and were aggressive doing so something they really have failed at for years

-Cleaning cap space for the future

-Building through the draft which has shown some early dividends already in the last two years with guys like White, Milano, Edmunds, T Johnson, Dawkins, and Phillips. Allen is a project so no use grading him short term he is boom or bust like many rookies early

-Culture and continuity which is something we lacked forever from the top down

-The hiring of Dabol who with the All-22 tape has actually shown so really well thought out formations and schemes. Not his fault if the pieces/talent fail at point he is working with what he has.

-A transition season where record wise we slip down to 4-7 wins because the team is changing for the long term

 

So everything above most Bills fans really had no issue with this its sound in theory. The problem and outrage is in the following:

-The lack of any form of a competitive offense because the GM prioritized the defense so heavily in FA and draft. There are a list of WR/OL who that 5 million for V. Davis would've been far more worth spending on instead

-The utter refusal to bring in any QB worth a dime so Allen could've waited like they wanted and instead the forcing of Peterman who showed he wasn't ready. Teddy Bridgewater would've been a perfect one year option so Allen was not rushed, yet like WR/OL they did nothing

-The lack of touches to the offenses best player McCoy as a whole

-The fact they run the offense likes its 1990 football not 2018. You realize 300 yards is nothing these days yet for the Bills its still a major goal

-The fact every WR move Beane has made has only made the WR corps worse. Dumped Sammy, Zay Jones is a bust with a ton of players at WR in that draft like Cooper Kupp available, Benjamin sucks, Boldin retired because he didn't want to be here, Kerley was signed and let go etc.. They looked at Allen and said best of luck and threw him to the wolves with nothing to go with.

-The fact the opener the entire team looked so uninspired/unprepared and proceeded that by spotting LA 28 to open at home.

-The additions of Davis and Muprhy have not panned out in any fashion so its wasted money that again could've and should've been used on the offense.

-The fact that in a league so driven now by innovation and strategy our coach just said he picks culture over strategy.

 

So yea in the general scope things are probably on path, but when you dive down more the honeymoon is over given there are some legitimate questions to ask now and some true skepticism that has developed. They did get delivered an awful schedule to start and I wouldn't be surprised if they are competitive for the rest of the games now and finish with even as many as 6 wins which would cool some pressure. But the organization has done themselves no favors about their decision making on quite a few areas and we have all seen that before and where it heads. Perhaps McBeane is different and patience is needed either way, but the smart moves that were panned in year 1 have transition to many questionable ones in year 2.

[Jay_Fixit]

12 hours ago, Klaista2k said:

What did making the playoffs actually do for us?

 

You'd think we could build on that that and get better... but we've gone in the opposite direction.

I see you as an earth tones guy.

[Patrick Duffy]

2 hours ago, Steptide said:

What fans wanted : the Rex Ryan jets with an outstanding defense and rookie qb (Sanchez) that was just good enough to win games.

 

Reality : the bills are the rams and/or eagles with a rookie Jared Goff or Carson Wentz. 

 

I will be absolutely shocked if we're sitting here a year from now moaning and whining about the o-line and reciever group. I have no doubt all these positions will be addressed in the off season/draft. I predicted 6 wins this year, and I still think that's accurate 

 

No way to know the bolded obviously,but I certainly hope so. So I definitely would not call the Bills situation the same as those two teams a "reality".

[row_33]

Making the playoffs lets a type of fan remember this 23 times a day on here when they fail the next 22 years to make them again ?

 

 

Edited October 4, 2018 by row_33

[BarleyNY]

3 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

and starting over would set us further back.

 

 

 

Not if you’re already not going anywhere. Best to get on the right track sooner than later. 

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

3 hours ago, Logic said:

It's funny.

When McDermott/Beane came in, Bills fans universally agreed that a full rebuild was needed and welcomed. Whaley/Brandon/Rex had left behind a toxic dumpster fire from top to bottom, a salary cap mess, and an awful team culture. EVERYTHING needed to be flushed. The Bills needed to start from scratch and build from the ground up. No one disputed this.

The fans -- supposedly ready for said rebuild to begin -- all said "we trust the process!". They all agreed that any rookie QB should get at least a couple years to prove himself. Most were fine with said rookie QB not even PLAYING this year. Everyone knew, also, that the team was taking their "salary cap medicine" this year, and likely wouldn't be competitive because of it.

So the season starts, our raw rookie QB looks like a raw rookie QB, and at the FIRST SIGN OF ADVERSITY in the second year of a complete rebuild, fans are jumping ship and calling for the coach to be fired. 

I suppose the team making the playoffs in year 1 of McDermott's tenure accelerated the timeline in the minds of many fans. It shouldn't have. Anyone with a reasonable amount of sense could look at this roster and this astronomical amount of dead money and conclude that 2018 was all about building and growing.

For the past 18 years, the Bills franchise put on band-aid after band-aid, refusing to ever tear it all down and go through a proper rebuild. Most fans screamed from the top of their lungs that a full rebuild was needed. Finally...FINALLY...the rebuild begins, and what happens? "Waaahhhh!!! FIRE McDERMOTT! FIRE BEANE! WAHHHHHH"

Bills fans are the worst sometimes.

Oh, and one more important thing to remember: Beane/McDermott are NOT responsible for anything that happened prior to last year. So for anyone saying "we've been rebuilding for 18 years!" or talking about how they've lost patience: Too bad for you. You obviously don't get it. These guys can only control what's happening NOW, and they're trying to build a TEAM (not just a collection of talent, Whaley-style), and build it the right way. If you can't be patient enough to stick with it, then again...that's too bad for you.

 

This is just completely fabricated to fit your narrative. 

[vincec]

I don't understand where this idea came from that you have to destroy your roster and start from scratch to change the culture and start winning. There are plenty of examples of new coaches coming in and changing the culture without doing that. Just look at our favorite son, Doug Marrone for a recent example. He took over the Jaguars when they were 2-12. They immediately went 10-6 the next season and made it to the AFC championship game. They didn't clean house and start over. They kept the same players and got them to buy in and play well. I can see changing a few players who don't fit your scheme or something, but but gutting the entire roster is excessive.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

14 hours ago, downunderbill said:

It's been 3 games and Allen hasn't won a Superbowl. Someone needs to be fired for this NOW.

 

...which defies TBD  patience...3 games is an eternity around these parts...............

[reddogblitz]

Screw that.  I was patient for 17 years.  I was patient through the Chan Gailey rebuild starting with a 4-12 season so we could get a high draft pick. I was patient when Mularkey ran off Drew Bledsoe so the future (JP Losman) could play.  I was patient when Coach Moron quit after a 9-7 season.  I was patient throughout the Rex regime.

 

I thought last year we had finally done what I see other teams do.  Hire a new coach and start gong to the playoffs. 

 

Why is it every time we get close to breaking though, we go back to the back of the line and have to suck for years and years?  Even if this plan works out, we gotta watch this $hit this year. Next year all the new guys will need to jell.  We got too many holes to fill now with even 9 draft picks and 90 mil in cap or whatever it is.  So we're talkin' 2020 maybe?

 

This is asking a lot of us fans.  It BETTER work.

 

Go BILLS !!

40 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Not if you’re already not going anywhere. Best to get on the right track sooner than later. 

 

Playoffs ain't "anywhere"?

[nedboy7]

36 minutes ago, vincec said:

I don't understand where this idea came from that you have to destroy your roster and start from scratch to change the culture and start winning. There are plenty of examples of new coaches coming in and changing the culture without doing that. Just look at our favorite son, Doug Marrone for a recent example. He took over the Jaguars when they were 2-12. They immediately went 10-6 the next season and made it to the AFC championship game. They didn't clean house and start over. They kept the same players and got them to buy in and play well. I can see changing a few players who don't fit your scheme or something, but but gutting the entire roster is excessive.

 

Exactly.  Rebuild?  The average roster turns over 30% or so if I'm correct.  That's a rebuild every year.  Ok you want to get rid of some bad contracts... great.  But bad preparation and bad play calling are not a part of a rebuild.  Not spending some money to protect your so called franchise qb is poor planning.  What is he learning? How to suck without WRs and a line?  And to hear that we have 10 picks and cap space?  Which team doesn't?  Oh I bet most talent is dying to come to this team and city. 

[jtothebrown]

1 hour ago, vincec said:

I don't understand where this idea came from that you have to destroy your roster and start from scratch to change the culture and start winning. There are plenty of examples of new coaches coming in and changing the culture without doing that. Just look at our favorite son, Doug Marrone for a recent example. He took over the Jaguars when they were 2-12. They immediately went 10-6 the next season and made it to the AFC championship game. They didn't clean house and start over. They kept the same players and got them to buy in and play well. I can see changing a few players who don't fit your scheme or something, but but gutting the entire roster is excessive.

Facts! Your example is spot on!

Edited October 4, 2018 by jtothebrown

[HamSandwhich]

10 hours ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

 

He clearly was not saying that they were. wow!

Patrick Duffey, you silly person you.  He was talking about the futility of the Bills for decades.  One can infer....????   I'll let you answer that.  

Edited October 4, 2018 by HamSandwhich

[jtothebrown]

Beane has also squandered a lot of money himself on bad contracts for guys that aren't on the team or are on the team but are unproductive.

[JoPar_v2]

I mean, I’d be patient and perfectly calm if I had any faith that McDermott and Beane could successfully manufacture a teardown/rebuild. I just don’t. That’s based simply on what I hear coming out of McDermott’s mouth. He’s a dinosaur. He’s the type of guy I imagine Ralph would hire if he was still around. He’s the furthest thing from someone like McVay that you could possibly get.

[Patrick Duffy]

13 hours ago, HamSandwhich said:

Patrick Duffey, you silly person you.  He was talking about the futility of the Bills for decades.  One can infer....????   I'll let you answer that.  

 

[inappropriate comment deleted.  go somewhere else for that.]

Edited October 5, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Playoffs ain't "anywhere"?

 

It’s just that I’d like to get back to the playoffs with a chance to win some games.  I’m glad the Bills got in last year.  I really am.  It was important to get that monkey off our backs.  But I haven’t really liked a lot of what’s happened since - and playoffs don’t look to be in our future anytime soon. I haven’t called for anyone’s head and I don’t expect to see any of the top dogs fired anytime soon. But they need to do much, much better than what I’m seeing or people will start calling for them to be canned. 

[Homey D. Clown]

8 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Acknowledged, but you did say in response to the "patience you petulant children" OP: " If you were calling out the people who are instantly ripping the coaching staff already, or that Josh Allen isn't good , then I retract my poke at you, and say, carry on my friend."  I interpret "carry on my friend" as "in that case, I agree with (the OPs) call for patience"

 

No question that some people go "over the top" with the quick calls of "bust" and "fire 'em all!  every one of 'em!" (ok I exaggerate but just about).

But then others go overboard in the other direction with name-calling people who have reasons for their critique.

 

We have some pretty knowledgeable football folks on the board, and some others who aren't so knowledgeable but can maybe see some things if they stare long enough (I'm in that latter group I hope).  If they think there's a problem, there probably is.  Now can it be fixed, maybe, but I'd like to see movement in that regard.

 

 

 

ahhh...(bolded in red)  no, I meant carry on by calling out the "quick to criticize" constituent around here...  

 

 

no doubt we're all a little frayed from all the losing.

[Logic]

3 hours ago, Chemical said:

This is just completely fabricated to fit your narrative. 

You mean there are actually people out there who felt that what was here when Beane/McDermott arrived was a sustainable team model built for long term success?

Yikes.