P-A-T-I-E-N-C-E

[Buffalo Barbarian]

7 hours ago, the skycap said:

I'm all about patience, I don't want to see our "investment" get ruined by this crappy offensive line that don't know how to handle line stunts.

 

 

I agree 100% there.

 

I would have traded Tyrod and McCoy and others and before last season and start Peterman in order to get the top pick and then use all those saved picks to rebuild the offense.

 

 

 

7 hours ago, Chemical said:

Everyone’s so excited about the playoffs last year they forget the goal is a super bowl. We haven’t been a contender in over 20 years. That’s all I care about. I’d miss the playoffs for 50 years if it meant one super bowl.

 

But think about this, there is a team out there right now that is the most poorly run. Are you sure it is not the Bills ?

 

we are run fine, just takes time, next offseason is critical, if the problems aren't addressed then they need to go.

 

 

6 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

 

NFL Team Salary Cap Tracker

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/2019/

 

rank	team	cap space
1	Indianapolis Colts	$123,886,900
2	New York Jets	$106,325,593
3	Buffalo Bills	$89,887,770
4	Houston Texans	$86,909,082
5	Cleveland Browns	$78,908,642
6	Dallas Cowboys	$64,610,515
7	Cincinnati Bengals	$63,293,606
8	Seattle Seahawks	$61,066,882
9	San Francisco 49ers	$59,394,799
10	Oakland Raiders	$59,259,074

the bad news for teams 

29	New Orleans Saints	$19,269,739.00
30	Minnesota Vikings	$9,299,039.00
31	Jacksonville Jaguars	-$4,964,035.00
32	Philadelphia Eagles	-$20,449,942.00

 

Friggin Jets !!!

 

 

5 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

 

And if our concerns are in the manner the team is being torn down and rebuilt?  Because that’s exactly where i am. 

 

and starting over would set us further back.

 

 

[Logic]

It's funny.

When McDermott/Beane came in, Bills fans universally agreed that a full rebuild was needed and welcomed. Whaley/Brandon/Rex had left behind a toxic dumpster fire from top to bottom, a salary cap mess, and an awful team culture. EVERYTHING needed to be flushed. The Bills needed to start from scratch and build from the ground up. No one disputed this.

The fans -- supposedly ready for said rebuild to begin -- all said "we trust the process!". They all agreed that any rookie QB should get at least a couple years to prove himself. Most were fine with said rookie QB not even PLAYING this year. Everyone knew, also, that the team was taking their "salary cap medicine" this year, and likely wouldn't be competitive because of it.

So the season starts, our raw rookie QB looks like a raw rookie QB, and at the FIRST SIGN OF ADVERSITY in the second year of a complete rebuild, fans are jumping ship and calling for the coach to be fired. 

I suppose the team making the playoffs in year 1 of McDermott's tenure accelerated the timeline in the minds of many fans. It shouldn't have. Anyone with a reasonable amount of sense could look at this roster and this astronomical amount of dead money and conclude that 2018 was all about building and growing.

For the past 18 years, the Bills franchise put on band-aid after band-aid, refusing to ever tear it all down and go through a proper rebuild. Most fans screamed from the top of their lungs that a full rebuild was needed. Finally...FINALLY...the rebuild begins, and what happens? "Waaahhhh!!! FIRE McDERMOTT! FIRE BEANE! WAHHHHHH"

Bills fans are the worst sometimes.

Oh, and one more important thing to remember: Beane/McDermott are NOT responsible for anything that happened prior to last year. So for anyone saying "we've been rebuilding for 18 years!" or talking about how they've lost patience: Too bad for you. You obviously don't get it. These guys can only control what's happening NOW, and they're trying to build a TEAM (not just a collection of talent, Whaley-style), and build it the right way. If you can't be patient enough to stick with it, then again...that's too bad for you.

 

Edited October 4, 2018 by Logic

[Buffalo Barbarian]

6 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

I wouldn’t characterize the problem as impatience. It’s more of confusion and frustration. To many fans it doesn’t seem like the Bills have a true plan. Culture and process are not a plan! They’re a mindset or a way of life but not a strategy.  Speaking just for myself it seems like the 2018 Bills have one foot in the tub and the other still out on the bath mat. If you’re going to rebuild...just do it!  I’ve got no idea why some of the holdover and free agent veterans are on this team. If you want to rebuild then put ALL of the kids out there. Not just Allen.

 

But their process is 

 

And we are rebuilding next year.

 

The other kids may make us play even worse. They started Allen bc they had to.

 

 

[John from Riverside]

3 minutes ago, Logic said:

It's funny.

When McDermott/Beane came in, Bills fans universally agreed that a full rebuild was needed and welcomed. Whaley/Brandon/Rex had left behind a toxic dumpster fire from top to bottom, a salary cap mess, and an awful team culture. EVERYTHING needed to be flushed. The Bills needed to start from scratch and build from the ground up. No one disputed this.

The fans -- supposedly ready for said rebuild to begin -- all said "we trust the process!". They all agreed that any rookie QB should get at least a couple years to prove himself. Most were fine with said rookie QB not even PLAYING this year. Everyone knew, also, that the team was taking their "salary cap medicine" this year, and likely wouldn't be competitive because of it.

So the season starts, our raw rookie QB looks like a raw rookie QB, and at the FIRST SIGN OF ADVERSITY in the second year of a complete rebuild, fans are jumping ship and calling for the coach to be fired. 

I suppose the team making the playoffs in year 1 of McDermott's tenure accelerated the timeline in the minds of many fans. It shouldn't have. Anyone with a reasonable amount of sense could look at this roster and this astronomical amount of dead money and conclude that 2018 was all about building and growing.

For the past 18 years, the Bills franchise put on band-aid after band-aid, refusing to ever tear it all down and go through a proper rebuild. Most fans screamed from the top of their lungs that a full rebuild was needed. Finally...FINALLY...the rebuild begins, and what happens? "Waaahhhh!!! FIRE McDERMOTT! FIRE BEANE! WAHHHHHH"

Bills fans are the worst sometimes.

 

Post of the year

[Buffalo Barbarian]

5 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So all the “fire someone” “this or that rookie/2nd year player is a BUST” etc etc is over the top.

 

But can you really not tell why, despite playoffs, so many are critical?

 

If you were trying to express it in your own words, your best guess at it, what would you say?

 

trust the process ... Jk 

 

they want to build a team of killers who live and breathe football, this is going to take time and this next offseason will decide how that is going.

 

 

[LSHMEAB]

18 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

John, meaning no offense here, but if you're contending with me about what I think is an inaccurate pass and not a throwaway, you're really pushing a rock uphill.

When I say "he's gotta make those throws, or he won't make it in the NFL" I'm not talking about passes that are arguably throwaways.

Passes like this one to Charles Clay, 1-10 Buf36 3:59 in the 1st.  If that's a throwaway, there is no reason for it to be.

Or this LAC 2-20 at Buf43, 1:23 in the 1st (hard to see in a still, but Murphy has laid down a pretty impressive vertical and it's still too high for him)

 

This is a QB's bread-and-butter - in the first case, designed roll-out.  In the second, flushed out and find the checkdown.

 

These are exactly the sort of plays that most QB who are drafted high can make in their sleep, but for Allen they are hit-and-miss, a work in progress.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not declaring Allen an Insta-bust, I'm just pointing out that the Bills are currently leaving a handful of plays on the field each week that would move the chains, and that have nothing to do with bad OL or WR or even funky scheme or coaching.  They are well-drawn up plays that shoudl work, and if they don't it has everything to do with where Allen is as a passer.   Now Allen might be able to rework whatever it is he must rework, and fix 'em, but cap space and star draft picks won't do it.  It's on Allen and the coaches who are working with him.

 

And I don't see how Allen will achieve or sustain success as an NFL QB if he fails to improve his accuracy on throws like these.

Gotta hit the bunnies!

Exactly this. You provide measured analysis of something I find alarming and disqualifying. Inaccuracy on what should be routine throws has me in the "Allen will bust" camp. I'm not gonna go out of my way to prove it because frankly, I'd love to be wrong.

 

I hated the pick when it was made and I still hate the pick. I'm not gonna act as if I didn't have an opinion at the time.

 

I just don't know how someone who's played quarterback a significant amount of time can ever improve on something so fundamental. You have got to have those completions.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

5 hours ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

Sunday's loss was ugly, and there have been some head scratching moves over the last year and a half, but I'm not ready to abandon ship like so many others. That's not because I'm a blind homer...This is pretty much what I expected to see this year. I wasn't necessarily expecting shutouts or blowouts on the road (although really not surprising). I was expecting ups and downs, with more downs than ups. Its year two, but year one for our QB and defensive "QB", new OC, lack of weapons at WR. 

 

Playoffs last year means nothing for this year, other than scheduled opponents (which is technically based on divisional record). Regardless of what you think of TT and his limitations, he did lead the team to the post season. He's gone. His center is gone. Left guard, gone. Left tackle, gone. There's just too much newness, inexperience, and lack of talent with this year's team to have been realistically expecting "big things", for me at least. 

 

to me the biggest reason for our struggles is Glenn, Wood and Ritchie. We still have the same $#!t receivers and did much better last yr. We just cant run or pass block.

 

 

4 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

 

Knew this was coming.

 

 

[Aussie Joe]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

trust the process ... Jk 

 

they want to build a team of killers who live and breathe football, this is going to take time and this next offseason will decide how that is going.

 

 

 

Yep.. this next off season...

 

They need to hit on a lot of things in respect of the Draft and Free Agency..

 

It’s easier said then done...

 

 

 

[Nihilarian]

After thinking about it some more, McD did take over the play calling for Fraizer in the second half of that Ravens game and it did have an effect. Plus, he did pull Peterman and put n Allen. So, I think he does want to win this year. 

 

 How many games do the Bills lose before McD takes some action to fix the offense, the run game, the protections?  I for one don't put all the blame on the rookie QB when he is being asked to carry the entire offense. 

[Jobot]

44 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

John, meaning no offense here, but if you're contending with me about what I think is an inaccurate pass and not a throwaway, you're really pushing a rock uphill.

When I say "he's gotta make those throws, or he won't make it in the NFL" I'm not talking about passes that are arguably throwaways.

Passes like this one to Charles Clay, 1-10 Buf36 3:59 in the 1st.  If that's a throwaway, there is no reason for it to be.

Or this LAC 2-20 at Buf43, 1:23 in the 1st (hard to see in a still, but Murphy has laid down a pretty impressive vertical and it's still too high for him)

 

This is a QB's bread-and-butter - in the first case, designed roll-out.  In the second, flushed out and find the checkdown.

 

These are exactly the sort of plays that most QB who are drafted high can make in their sleep, but for Allen they are hit-and-miss, a work in progress.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not declaring Allen an Insta-bust, I'm just pointing out that the Bills are currently leaving a handful of plays on the field each week that would move the chains, and that have nothing to do with bad OL or WR or even funky scheme or coaching.  They are well-drawn up plays that shoudl work, and if they don't it has everything to do with where Allen is as a passer.   Now Allen might be able to rework whatever it is he must rework, and fix 'em, but cap space and star draft picks won't do it.  It's on Allen and the coaches who are working with him.

 

And I don't see how Allen will achieve or sustain success as an NFL QB if he fails to improve his accuracy on throws like these.

Gotta hit the bunnies!

 

Was that throw actually routine though?  Watching that play in game speed made it look much more difficult of a pass to assume a completion.  Defenders looked like they were already at full speed pursuing Clay before the ball was released. 

[Steptide]

What fans wanted : the Rex Ryan jets with an outstanding defense and rookie qb (Sanchez) that was just good enough to win games.

 

Reality : the bills are the rams and/or eagles with a rookie Jared Goff or Carson Wentz. 

 

I will be absolutely shocked if we're sitting here a year from now moaning and whining about the o-line and reciever group. I have no doubt all these positions will be addressed in the off season/draft. I predicted 6 wins this year, and I still think that's accurate 

[Freddie's Dead]

25 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

Knew this was coming.

 

 

 

Four pages in, I was shocked nobody beat me to it

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

16 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

to me the biggest reason for our struggles is Glenn, Wood and Ritchie. We still have the same $#!t receivers and did much better last yr. We just cant run or pass block.

 

Those are huge losses, considering we have a rookie QB. But the amount of drops this year is ridiculous, and would have altered drives (to whatever extent). Zay had a few last year, but guys like Matthews and Thompson, while "jag", at least caught the ball most of the time. 

 

Still, even under better circumstances, 8 wins was probably the ceiling this year. Thats with far less drops, more accurate throws, and stellar defense...a tall order, considering the current state of the team. 

[BBills88]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

John, meaning no offense here, but if you're contending with me about what I think is an inaccurate pass and not a throwaway, you're really pushing a rock uphill.

When I say "he's gotta make those throws, or he won't make it in the NFL" I'm not talking about passes that are arguably throwaways.

Passes like this one to Charles Clay, 1-10 Buf36 3:59 in the 1st.  If that's a throwaway, there is no reason for it to be.

Or this LAC 2-20 at Buf43, 1:23 in the 1st (hard to see in a still, but Murphy has laid down a pretty impressive vertical and it's still too high for him)

 

This is a QB's bread-and-butter - in the first case, designed roll-out.  In the second, flushed out and find the checkdown.

 

These are exactly the sort of plays that most QB who are drafted high can make in their sleep, but for Allen they are hit-and-miss, a work in progress.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not declaring Allen an Insta-bust, I'm just pointing out that the Bills are currently leaving a handful of plays on the field each week that would move the chains, and that have nothing to do with bad OL or WR or even funky scheme or coaching.  They are well-drawn up plays that shoudl work, and if they don't it has everything to do with where Allen is as a passer.   Now Allen might be able to rework whatever it is he must rework, and fix 'em, but cap space and star draft picks won't do it.  It's on Allen and the coaches who are working with him.

 

And I don't see how Allen will achieve or sustain success as an NFL QB if he fails to improve his accuracy on throws like these.

Gotta hit the bunnies!

Josh Allen needs to learn to switch up throws. Not every throw needs to be a straight bullet.

He should watch "Wanted"   The curve bullets hit their targets also.

Seriously. Josh has to learn when to put touch on a pass. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

It's funny.

When McDermott/Beane came in, Bills fans universally agreed that a full rebuild was needed and welcomed. Whaley/Brandon/Rex had left behind a toxic dumpster fire from top to bottom, a salary cap mess, and an awful team culture. EVERYTHING needed to be flushed. The Bills needed to start from scratch and build from the ground up. No one disputed this.

The fans -- supposedly ready for said rebuild to begin -- all said "we trust the process!". They all agreed that any rookie QB should get at least a couple years to prove himself. Most were fine with said rookie QB not even PLAYING this year. Everyone knew, also, that the team was taking their "salary cap medicine" this year, and likely wouldn't be competitive because of it.

So the season starts, our raw rookie QB looks like a raw rookie QB, and at the FIRST SIGN OF ADVERSITY in the second year of a complete rebuild, fans are jumping ship and calling for the coach to be fired. 

I suppose the team making the playoffs in year 1 of McDermott's tenure accelerated the timeline in the minds of many fans. It shouldn't have. Anyone with a reasonable amount of sense could look at this roster and this astronomical amount of dead money and conclude that 2018 was all about building and growing.

For the past 18 years, the Bills franchise put on band-aid after band-aid, refusing to ever tear it all down and go through a proper rebuild. Most fans screamed from the top of their lungs that a full rebuild was needed. Finally...FINALLY...the rebuild begins, and what happens? "Waaahhhh!!! FIRE McDERMOTT! FIRE BEANE! WAHHHHHH"

Bills fans are the worst sometimes.

Oh, and one more important thing to remember: Beane/McDermott are NOT responsible for anything that happened prior to last year. So for anyone saying "we've been rebuilding for 18 years!" or talking about how they've lost patience: Too bad for you. You obviously don't get it. These guys can only control what's happening NOW, and they're trying to build a TEAM (not just a collection of talent, Whaley-style), and build it the right way. If you can't be patient enough to stick with it, then again...that's too bad for you.

 

 

Well, I disagree with you on just about all of these points - the "toxic dumpster fire from top to bottom" the "salary cap mess", the EVERYTHING, the "all said we trust the process" and so forth.  But since the basis for these disagreements have been spelled out multiple times I don't see  the value in trying it again.

 

The only points where we clearly agree are that Beane and McDermott are not responsible for anything prior to last year, and that a rookie QB will require a couple of years to e v a l.

 

As for the reiterated "Bills fans are the worst sometimes" I quote Owen Wister in "The Virginian":  “How far away was you standin' when you beheld that?”

[Búfalo Blanco]

5 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

Master Rose! 

[H2o]

[Jobot]

35 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well, I disagree with you on just about all of these points - the "toxic dumpster fire from top to bottom" the "salary cap mess", the EVERYTHING, the "all said we trust the process" and so forth.  But since the basis for these disagreements have been spelled out multiple times I don't see  the value in trying it again.

 

The only points where we clearly agree are that Beane and McDermott are not responsible for anything prior to last year, and that a rookie QB will require a couple of years to e v a l.

 

As for the reiterated "Bills fans are the worst sometimes" I quote Owen Wister in "The Virginian":  “How far away was you standin' when you beheld that?”

 

Playing with $90 Million Less Dollars than everyone else.

[SoTier]

9 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

 

 

Did we not go to the playoffs last year??

 

Why are so many acting like petulant chlidren??

 

Last year was used to get our QB, mission accomplished.

 

This year we're in the process of demolition and restocking this spring, right on track. Let's exercise some patience and let them build a perennial contender and not a flash in the pan.

 

 

 

 

 

Stuff the "patience" bull manure where the sun don't shine.   McDermott is a Jauron clone and Beane is his Stepandfetchit.  If you think I want them gone, you're right and I make no bones about it.  McDermott may be okay as a game coach, but his failure to select competent coordinators and assistants especially on offense,  is making me think more and more that he's not up to being a HC.  He and Beane are incompetent at team building as the sorry performances of the Bills so far this year attest, and giving those asshats control of player personnel has not only been a prescription for disaster, but it will doom the team going forward until they're both canned.  The question is, how many more shut outs and blow outs will it take until Pegula pulls the plug on this clown show?

 

6 hours ago, TheTruthHurts said:

They were a bad team last year. They were already selling off talent. The good news is they will be spending a lot of money over the next 2 years to improve the roster. 

 

Change can happen quickly in the NFL. 

 

It certainly can.  The Bills went 9-7 in 2017 and finally managed a playoff appearance,  and they seem destined for a 1 to 3 win season and a top 3 pick in 2018.  

 

3 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

I've been hearing "patience" since I became a Bills fan back in '69.   Now I'm wearing a sweatshirt that says, "Just one before I die."  I'm patient.  Bills fans generally are.  I don't know if we need a new thread on patience when we've been living with "There's always next year" for decades.  

 

But I do generally agree with the OP.  The Bills are the lowest paid team in the NFL this year - and play like it.  Beane, however, has been squirrelling away both cap dollars and draft picks for 2019 and 2020.  If he spends his picks and dollars wisely, the Bills will be good the season after next.  

 

I don't have any hope of a playoff appearance this year.  To me, 2018 is the preseason to 2019.  I watch to see what I can learn about McD and the coordinators and hopefully see some young players (Allen, Edmunds, etc.) begin to blossom.  Wins and losses are almost secondary.  

 

 

 

McDermott/Beane spending "picks and dollars wisely" is a pipe dream.  I can't wait to see how many picks they trade away and how much cap space they use on acquiring players who are then released or traded before the start of the regular season.

 

1 hour ago, buffalobloodfloridahome said:

It's all about the draft and free agency next year. They appear to be building the defense first added a rookie qb and letting him get experience so that next year when they build the offense around him he'll at least have an idea what to do with them. Not unlike Rams current team. They just have to hit on the picks and free agents next year.

 

If their "plan" is to build a defense first, then why did they waste so much talent and draft capital on a first round QB who is being set up to fail because he has no protection and no targets and no running game to help him have any real success?  In case you didn't notice, their defense still isn't very good two years in -- and they've got numerous older vets like Kyle Williams and Lorenzo Alexander who are at about the end of their careers, so those holes will have to be filled next season.  So, when exactly do the geniuses bother to get some help for Allen -- or do they assume that because he was a first round pick that he doesn't need to have help, that he can "carry" the offense all by himself? 

 

 

[nedboy7]

12 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Stuff the "patience" bull manure where the sun don't shine.   McDermott is a Jauron clone and Beane is his Stepandfetchit.  If you think I want them gone, you're right and I make no bones about it.  McDermott may be okay as a game coach, but his failure to select competent coordinators and assistants especially on offense,  is making me think more and more that he's not up to being a HC.  He and Beane are incompetent at team building as the sorry performances of the Bills so far this year attest, and giving those asshats control of player personnel has not only been a prescription for disaster, but it will doom the team going forward until they're both canned.  The question is, how many more shut outs and blow outs will it take until Pegula pulls the plug on this clown show?

 

 

It certainly can.  The Bills went 9-7 in 2017 and finally managed a playoff appearance,  and they seem destined for a 1 to 3 win season and a top 3 pick in 2018.  

 

 

McDermott/Beane spending "picks and dollars wisely" is a pipe dream.  I can't wait to see how many picks they trade away and how much cap space they use on acquiring players who are then released or traded before the start of the regular season.

 

 

If their "plan" is to build a defense first, then why did they waste so much talent and draft capital on a first round QB who is being set up to fail because he has no protection and no targets and no running game to help him have any real success?  In case you didn't notice, their defense still isn't very good two years in -- and they've got numerous older vets like Kyle Williams and Lorenzo Alexander who are at about the end of their careers, so those holes will have to be filled next season.  So, when exactly do the geniuses bother to get some help for Allen -- or do they assume that because he was a first round pick that he doesn't need to have help, that he can "carry" the offense all by himself? 

 

 

 

I think you made the “stop crying about the rebuild” folks go home to cry.