P-A-T-I-E-N-C-E

[BillsVet]

The lack of patience comes down to this franchise being no closer to competing today for championships than it was under Dugout Doug Whaley and Wrecks at the end of 2016. Oh sure, they're in better cap shape and have a young QB most fans have hope for, but the roster features a lot of players who aren't long term options.

 

I'd be a lot more comfortable with this rebuild if McCoach hadn't followed the formula of what previous regimes did.  Namely, sink a lot of draft picks and free agency dollars into a defense  to presumably win close games.  DJ, Nix/Gailey, and Whaley/Wrecks all started rebuilds prioritizing the defense and all failed miserably to get this team to even a playoff level.  Marrone wasn't hear long enough to do fall flat and worked with the aforementioned Whaley who made some real boneheaded decisions. 

 

Most fans want to be patient, but taking steps back in a rebuild is a really bad sign.  Winning a game like they did at Atlanta last year or Minnesota this year is nice, but it ups the expectations when the team is really not even average this season.  I'll also predict that having 90M in cap room for next year isn't going to suddenly mean the offense is demonstrably better.

[Nihilarian]

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

When he is talking about patience I dont think he is talking about this year.....this offense is not going to get better this year.......next year

It can though John, meaning that if McD gets fed up with seeing no run game and the entire offense placed on that rookie's shoulders game after game. There is no question that LeSean Mccoy is the best player on offense and he isn't being used. 

 

Look what happened in 2016 when Rex Ryan fired Greg Roman after two weeks of no run game and replaced him with RB coach Anthony Lynn. After losing two straight with no run game the Bills went on a four-game win tear after firing Roman. 

 

That first game in 2016 against Baltimore the Bills rushed 24 times for 64 yards (and at least Roman attempted to run the ball). That second game against the NY Jets the Bills rushed 19 times for 86 yards. The real culprit was Bills DC Dennis Thurman who allowed the Jets to rush 36 times for 123 yards, 3 Tds while controlling the clock 39:12 to 20:48.

 

The next game against Arizona the Bills rushed 32 times for 208 yards, 3 TDs. At the end of the 2016 season, the Bills were #2 in rushing attempts, #1 in rush yards, #1 in rush TDs. by switching to Lynn as OC.

 

 

Now you may ask who should McD turn to if he wants to make a change at OC. Bills WR coach Terry Robiskie has been an NFL head coach and an NFL OC. I really don't know if he can fix the offensive line protections or get the run game going. But the man did coach Marcus Mariota at Tenn and left Tenn along with Mularkey.

 

Brian Daboll is going to get this rookie QB killed, concussed or ruined like JP, Trent Edwards if he doesn't change things up. McD is a defensive minded HC and he must know what happens with little or no run game. While I like McD, If his plan is to tank this year then I hope he gets fired. 

 

 

[Dopey]

4 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

This team has been in existence for 58 years. They have had only 13 years in which they have won more than 9 games, only 18 years in which they made the playoffs, and only 9 years in which they won an actual playoff game. If we are honest, in those 58 years, they were truly a championship caliber team in only 5 or 6 of those seasons. I have been a fan of this team since I attended my first game in 1968, so I missed 2-3 of those few championship caliber seasons. My adult son has been a fan of this team since he was a young boy and they have made the playoffs only twice since he has been watching them - and they haven't been a championship caliber team in the entire time he has been watching them.

 

My son and I are very close. He lives and works in another state and we talk 2-3 times a week. Many of our conversations are about the Bills (and Sabres) and we talk after every Bills game. The Bills have not been very good for most of the years I have followed them, and rarely in the time my son has followed them - and, as fans, we both have experienced our share of frustrations. Yet, they are the source of so many wonderful memories we share and continue to be a positive part of our relationship.

 

In the end, it is a game. Wins and losses are what ultimately defines a team. What we choose to take away from our experiences defines us as fans. Fortunately, my son and I have found positive ways to balance our love for this team and how it impacts our lives.

 

Go Bills!

Left Buff. in '93. Call my mom 2x a week and 3x a week during football season. The 3rd call is on Sunday at around noon to remind her there to watch the game. Love my Bills, but the Sunday conversation always ends with me saying "they're going to lose". To which she says "F*&% you, Bobby! Don't talk about my Bills like that!".

Ah, the New Yorican love.

[dpberr]

For me, as a fan, I don't like how the team inconsistently shows up for games.  OL not knowing where they should be.  Wide receivers who can't concentrate enough to make a catch, etc.  

 

I also don't like the team getting its doors blown off in 3 of the 4 games played.  

 

Both trends suggest there are issues to be fixed in days leading up to the game.  

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Homey D. Clown said:

Nowhere did I say I want people to have patience.  I simply don't agree with the crucification of a QB or a coach as it happens so quickly around here.

 

Acknowledged, but you did say in response to the "patience you petulant children" OP: " If you were calling out the people who are instantly ripping the coaching staff already, or that Josh Allen isn't good , then I retract my poke at you, and say, carry on my friend."  I interpret "carry on my friend" as "in that case, I agree with (the OPs) call for patience"

 

No question that some people go "over the top" with the quick calls of "bust" and "fire 'em all!  every one of 'em!" (ok I exaggerate but just about).

But then others go overboard in the other direction with name-calling people who have reasons for their critique.

 

We have some pretty knowledgeable football folks on the board, and some others who aren't so knowledgeable but can maybe see some things if they stare long enough (I'm in that latter group I hope).  If they think there's a problem, there probably is.  Now can it be fixed, maybe, but I'd like to see movement in that regard.

 

 

[Búfalo Blanco]

8 hours ago, nucci said:

Because as Bills fans we haven't been patient.....how often do we hear....wait til next year....

In the Ralph Wilson era, yes... you are correct. We were sold snake oil, year after year.

 

Pegula..? Give him/the front office a little time. He's had the team for 4 years.... and really only 3 1/4 seasons. The man is obviously willing to spend and get better management/coaching/talent.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

53 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

When he is talking about patience I dont think he is talking about this year.....this offense is not going to get better this year.......next year

 

I guess my point would be, John, is that if some things that appear to be coaching and scheme issues don't get fixed this year, there's not too much reason to think personnel changes next year will be all that helpful.

 

Because it's not just that the OL can't pass or runblock.  Some plays they do it beautifully.  Some plays they act like the Keystone Cops.  And yes some plays they're overmatched.  But the Keystone Cops and some of the overmatched part appear to be scheme/coaching issues.

 

Likewise, it's not just that our WR can't get open.  Some plays they are open, and Allen doesn't see them.  That's to be expected from a rookie.  But sometimes they are open, Allen sees them, and his throw is inaccurate.   I'm not talking long bombs, I'm talking bread-and-butter short to mid stuff.  "Gotta hit the Bunnies" as they say in Bball.   If he and our coaches can't address and improve that, he's not going to make it even if he turns into a Mensa genius defensive decoder, and better WR won't really help.

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I guess my point would be, John, is that if some things that appear to be coaching and scheme issues don't get fixed this year, there's not too much reason to think personnel changes next year will be all that helpful.

 

Because it's not just that the OL can't pass or runblock.  Some plays they do it beautifully.  Some plays they act like the Keystone Cops.  And yes some plays they're overmatched.  But the Keystone Cops and some of the overmatched part appear to be scheme/coaching issues.

 

Likewise, it's not just that our WR can't get open.  Some plays they are open, and Allen doesn't see them.  That's to be expected from a rookie.  But sometimes they are open, Allen sees them, and his throw is inaccurate.   I'm not talking long bombs, I'm talking bread-and-butter short to mid stuff.  "Gotta hit the Bunnies" as they say in Bball.   If he and our coaches can't address and improve that, he's not going to make it even if he turns into a Mensa genius defensive decoder, and better WR won't really help.

I still contend that some of these "inaccurate passes" are really throwaways

[GoBills808]

3 hours ago, Chris66 said:

Yeah they were in the playoffs scored a whopping 3 points. Then proceeded to rip it apart. Not only that but used valuable draft capital on the biggest qb project in the draft.

I think this is the biggest logical fallacy that fans of this team are dealing with at the moment. There's a faction that is generally optimistic about this front office, saw last year's team as a flawed but well-coached playoff team, however marginal, and has a relatively positive outlook on the moves that have been made thus far in the name of progress or the 'process'. I am in this camp because it makes sense to me.

 

What I don't understand are the folks who simultaneously B word and moan about how 'lucky' the Bills were to make the playoffs last season, say how bad the team was w/ the 'only 3 points v Jags' and go on and on about how that wildcard was such a red herring....and then in the same breath stand completely opposed to the idea of tearing that team down and rebuilding it. Seriously think about that for a minute. 

[Chris66]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

I think this is the biggest logical fallacy that fans of this team are dealing with at the moment. There's a faction that is generally optimistic about this front office, saw last year's team as a flawed but well-coached playoff team, however marginal, and has a relatively positive outlook on the moves that have been made thus far in the name of progress or the 'process'. I am in this camp because it makes sense to me.

 

What I don't understand are the folks who simultaneously B word and moan about how 'lucky' the Bills were to make the playoffs last season, say how bad the team was w/ the 'only 3 points v Jags' and go on and on about how that wildcard was such a red herring....and then in the same breath stand completely opposed to the idea of tearing that team down and rebuilding it. Seriously think about that for a minute. 

Its easy. I call it as I see it. I have no dog in this fight either way, but I have been following this organization long enough to see where its heading and its doesnt have a very good outlook.

[Nihilarian]

29 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Acknowledged, but you did say in response to the "patience you petulant children" OP: " If you were calling out the people who are instantly ripping the coaching staff already, or that Josh Allen isn't good , then I retract my poke at you, and say, carry on my friend."  I interpret "carry on my friend" as "in that case, I agree with (the OPs) call for patience"

 

No question that some people go "over the top" with the quick calls of "bust" and "fire 'em all!  every one of 'em!" (ok I exaggerate but just about).

But then others go overboard in the other direction with name-calling people who have reasons for their critique.

 

We have some pretty knowledgeable football folks on the board, and some others who aren't so knowledgeable but can maybe see some things if they stare long enough (I'm in that latter group I hope).  If they think there's a problem, there probably is.  Now can it be fixed, maybe, but I'd like to see movement in that regard.

 

 

2

I'm not in the fire'em all camp just yet. Like I stated though, I've been around long enough to know when something is fixable or unfixable. This offense is fixable just by taking the offense off the rookie QB shoulders and put it squarely on LeSean McCoy's, Chris Ivory's shoulders.

Be innovative! On third down and one instead of a run up the middle in the I formation with 7 Bills on the line, do a toss sweep, QB sneak and if it doesn't work don't give up on the run game. 

 

Only 5 carries for Shady against GB when he was averaging 4.8 YPC is ridiculous as is only 3 catches. 7 sacks on Allen was ridiculous too. 

 

How long does this HC wait to do something to fix the offense? When does it become too late to save the season? Does that rookie QB have to get ruined before things change? Like I also said, if McD is doing this on purpose to tank the year to get some of those pass rushers in the draft...then I hope he gets fired. 

Edited October 4, 2018 by Nihilarian

[Alphadawg7]

10 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

 

 

Did we not go to the playoffs last year??

 

Why are so many acting like petulant chlidren??

 

Last year was used to get our QB, mission accomplished.

 

This year we're in the process of demolition and restocking this spring, right on track. Let's exercise some patience and let them build a perennial contender and not a flash in the pan.

 

 

 

 

 

I wish I could like, give this a trophy, and a middle finger to the panickers all that same time and then do it a thousand times more.  

 

Its mind blowing how hard this is for people to understand.  Honestly, I think its MOSTLY the people who were against the Allen pick on draft night who want to use any evidence they can to try and PROVE Allen is a bust.

 

1 hour ago, yungmack said:

The Buffalo Bills...Permanently Rebuilding

 

Until they aren't...

 

Utterly ridiculous to put 20 years of a failure on a staff thats been here less than 2 years and who already led a rag tag group to the playoffs.

Edited October 4, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[Hapless Bills Fan]

33 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I still contend that some of these "inaccurate passes" are really throwaways

 

John, meaning no offense here, but if you're contending with me about what I think is an inaccurate pass and not a throwaway, you're really pushing a rock uphill.

When I say "he's gotta make those throws, or he won't make it in the NFL" I'm not talking about passes that are arguably throwaways.

Passes like this one to Charles Clay, 1-10 Buf36 3:59 in the 1st.  If that's a throwaway, there is no reason for it to be.

Or this LAC 2-20 at Buf43, 1:23 in the 1st (hard to see in a still, but Murphy has laid down a pretty impressive vertical and it's still too high for him)

 

This is a QB's bread-and-butter - in the first case, designed roll-out.  In the second, flushed out and find the checkdown.

 

These are exactly the sort of plays that most QB who are drafted high can make in their sleep, but for Allen they are hit-and-miss, a work in progress.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not declaring Allen an Insta-bust, I'm just pointing out that the Bills are currently leaving a handful of plays on the field each week that would move the chains, and that have nothing to do with bad OL or WR or even funky scheme or coaching.  They are well-drawn up plays that shoudl work, and if they don't it has everything to do with where Allen is as a passer.   Now Allen might be able to rework whatever it is he must rework, and fix 'em, but cap space and star draft picks won't do it.  It's on Allen and the coaches who are working with him.

 

And I don't see how Allen will achieve or sustain success as an NFL QB if he fails to improve his accuracy on throws like these.

Gotta hit the bunnies!

[Buffalo Barbarian]

9 hours ago, RobbRiddick said:

I get your point, but I don't think you can blame people for being impatient. Despite the playoffs last year, which we only just scraped into anyway, this club has YEARS of boneheaded decisions and poor performance behind them, so it stands to reason fans will lose it when the team fails to score a single point in a league where losing teams are regularly putting up scores in the 30s or 40s.

 

In fact, I'd say Bills fans don't moan enough considering how bad this team has been since the millennium. They still turn out to the stadium each week and still watch the games enthusiastically on TV.

 

After we beat the Vikes I had a look at one of their forums - if you think it's bad here, check that place out. They were calling for the entire defense to be fired, whining about never getting any luck, talking about being cursed. This is a team that was in the championship game last year. 

 

Actually, when you look around this forum, I think a lot of Bills fans have actually crossed the point of all out moaning and misery and have entered that slightly mad stage where you just mask the mental illness the team is causing you with humor.

 

I think that's the lesser known 6th stage of grief:
 

Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance and... drooling madness ( I reached stage 6 when we drafted Maybin)

 

all true but that was under many regimes and if we change now it will only take longer.

 

 

9 hours ago, Búfalo Blanco said:

In the era of instant gratification with Millennials running amuck...? Good luck with that. Patience is sooooo 20th century, braaahhh... 

 

lost of OLD millenniials around here as well

 

 

[John from Riverside]

7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

John, meaning no offense here, but if you're contending with me about what I think is an inaccurate pass and not a throwaway, you're really pushing a rock uphill.

When I say "he's gotta make those throws, or he won't make it in the NFL" I'm not talking about passes that are arguably throwaways.

Passes like this one to Charles Clay, 1-10 Buf36 3:59 in the 1st.  If that's a throwaway, there is no reason for it to be.

Or this LAC 2-20 at Buf43, 1:23 in the 1st (hard to see in a still, but Murphy has laid down a pretty impressive vertical and it's still too high for him)

 

This is a QB's bread-and-butter - in the first case, designed roll-out.  In the second, flushed out and find the checkdown.

 

These are exactly the sort of plays that most QB who are drafted high can make in their sleep, but for Allen they are hit-and-miss, a work in progress.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not declaring Allen an Insta-bust, I'm just pointing out that the Bills are currently leaving a handful of plays on the field each week that would move the chains, and that have nothing to do with bad OL or WR, and everything to do with where Allen is as a passer.   Now Allen might be able to rework whatever it is he must rework, and fix 'em, but cap space and star draft picks won't do it.

 

And I don't see how Allen will achieve or sustain success as an NFL QB if he fails to improve his accuracy on throws like these.

No some of these passes are just bad....but some of them on the sideline I believe to be throwaways

[Buffalo Barbarian]

9 hours ago, Klaista2k said:

What did making the playoffs actually do for us?

 

You'd think we could build on that that and get better... but we've gone in the opposite direction.

 

this is not how I would have done it but rest assured the deficiencies will be addressed, they got all that cap space for a reason.

 

 

[PromoTheRobot]

We already waited 4 weeks for Allen to become a franchise savior. How much longer do we give him?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

No some of these passes are just bad....but some of them on the sideline I believe to be throwaways

 

Yes, you are correct, some of the sideline passes are throw-aways, or at worst passes that he's trying to put where only his WR has a chance at it but our guys can't get there.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Patience?  Being a die hard Bills fan since day one makes that difficult.  It actually kinda makes one numb.

[Gugny]

2 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

We already waited 4 weeks for Allen to become a franchise savior. How much longer do we give him?

 

If he hasn't done it by halftime in the Titans game, he should just call it a day.