Syracuse Basketball 2023-24

[Bing Bong]

6 hours ago, DCOrange said:

Think next year's team might be even worse assuming Battle leaves despite his non-existent draft stock, but then again, a part of me is more interested in seeing next year's team because of the uncertainty.

Battle's declaring for the draft. Huge loss for Orange.

 

I don't know if that's such a bad decision for Battle. He'll at least get a shot if undrafted. I see him mocked in the 2nd occasionally. Syracuse doesn't look like it's going to change Battle's profile with any better of a team, and Battle himself has plateaued, really marginal improvement. He's not going to be some Buddy Hield story. I figure go get your money if you have an outside shot with little chance of improving draft stock by staying.

 

I'd think otherwise about it if he didn't look like the exact same player Sophomore year to Junior year.

[Buffalo716]

7 hours ago, DCOrange said:

Think next year's team might be even worse assuming Battle leaves despite his non-existent draft stock, but then again, a part of me is more interested in seeing next year's team because of the uncertainty.

 

I was never high on this year's team once we lost Bazley and I also felt like I knew what we'd get with them. I really have no idea about next year. Assuming Battle leaves, I have no feel for what we're going to do at PG or C. If we play the freshmen, we should theoretically have the best shooting team we've had in a long time. Feels like next year might be a disaster if Carey doesn't take a gigantic leap in year 2 though...I like Goodine and Girard but I'm not sure either of them is capable of being the PG that breaks defenses down like we've been severely lacking.

 

With Boeheim's offensive system (and I use that term loosely because there's not much to it), you really need:

1. At least one guy that handle the ball, both pass and shoot out of ball screens, and sometimes create his own shot 1 on 1
2. Shooters on the wings and at least one secondary ball handler
3. A big man that can set screens, catch the ball, and either roll to the hoop or shoot the jumpshot

This season, we basically didn't have any of that. Battle's never been a gifted passer. Chukwu and Dolezaj certainly weren't much of a threat after setting screens. And Hughes and a small stretch of Boeheim were the only shooting we had. It was just never going to work.

 

I love Chukwu and he was an absolutely incredible defender for us, but his offensive limitations on top of our unwillingness to throw him the ball even when he was completely unguarded was a huge weakness for this team. Add in the insane number of minutes that we give to guys like Brissett that bring almost nothing positive to the team and we had all the makings of a disappointing year; I'm honestly surprised we were as good as we were.

 

I really hope that we can pull some strings between now and the beginning of next year to bring in a center and a ball-handler (though I REALLY like the looks of the Duruji kid too). Maybe just throw Carey, Goodine, and Girard to the wolves and suffer if they can't handle it and bring in a C and Duruji instead.

I don’t think Goodine will be  playing PG... he is a total slasher

 

and also Boeheims offense has taken a hit because they have been on sanctions and  Chukwu/sidibe has been his center for the last few years... that literally makes it 5 on 4.. because they cant do anything with it... chukwu can hardly catch it

 

go back 7-10 years and 25-30 years for that matter and Boeheim has always ran an up tempo NBA offense... it used to always be fast breaks , ally oops , pick and roll , nba Isos and good percentages. Boeheim was known as an offensive genius in the 80s

 

they have been playing with 6-7 guys since sanctions and don’t have the numbers to play that game rn... they can’t even rebound so how can you run

 

Boeheim is itching to get back to fast paced ball... it’s been a few years at this point

 

i would say that his offensive identity since pearl was up tempo, run the floor, and create pace... with 2-3 plays go to plays, interchangeable by player in the half court with pick and roll and iso sets

 

when they are talented the offense looks good... when they aren’t deep it’s ugly...

 

it was definitely ugly the last few years

Edited March 22, 2019 by Buffalo716

[Buffalo Barbarian]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I don’t think Goodine will be  playing PG... he is a total slasher

 

and also Boeheims offense has taken a hit because they have been on sanctions and  Chukwu/sidibe has been his center for the last few years... that literally makes it 5 on 4.. because they cant do anything with it... chukwu can hardly catch it

 

go back 7-10 years and 25-30 years for that matter and Boeheim has always ran an up tempo NBA offense... it used to always be fast breaks , ally oops , pick and roll , nba Isos and good percentages. Boeheim was known as an offensive genius in the 80s

 

they have been playing with 6-7 guys since sanctions and don’t have the numbers to play that game rn... they can’t even rebound so how can you run

 

Boeheim is itching to get back to fast paced ball... it’s been a few years at this point

 

Isnt he retireing ?

 

 

[Buffalo716]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

Isnt he retireing ?

 

 

After his kid graduates supposedly... should have 3 more years

[bbb]

 

 

21 hours ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

Syracuse burnt that bridge.  Did him dirty...

 

Did they name him in coach in waiting or whatever and then Boeheim just keeps sticking around, or is there more that they did?

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, bbb said:

 

 

 

Did they name him in coach in waiting or whatever and then Boeheim just keeps sticking around, or is there more that they did?

That is exactly what happened. He was named coach in waiting with a date... Boeheim didn’t retire at the date

[Buffalo Barbarian]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

After his kid graduates supposedly... should have 3 more years

 

Might as well keep going at that point.

 

 

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

That is exactly what happened. He was named coach in waiting with a date... Boeheim didn’t retire at the date

 

Did they lose some coach when he didn't retire?

 

 

[Buffalo716]

13 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

Might as well keep going at that point.

 

 

 

Did they lose some coach when he didn't retire?

 

 

Mike Hopkins who is now back to back PAC12 coach of year 

 

he also took all the 5* recruits that were coming to SU to Washington with him

[Buffalo Barbarian]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Mike Hopkins who is now back to back PAC12 coach of year 

 

he also took all the 5* recruits that were coming to SU to Washington with him

 

Dang! Should have Syracuse moved on ? Would seem wrong to force Boeheim out.

 

 

[Buffalo716]

Just now, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

Dang! Should have Syracuse moved on ? Would seem wrong to force Boeheim out.

 

 

It’s absolutely wrong to force Boeheim out. He is Syracuse and he deserves to stay as long as he wants

 

but

 

Hopkins was his right hand man for a long long time... and one of the best recruiters in the country... he was the primary recruiter by that point not Boeheim 

 

and he sneezed out 5* recruits

 

Boeheim and Co is struggling without him... not too mention he took the 5* guys that were gonna come to SU with him to Washington 

 

so yes, without emotions, which I have plenty for Boeheim... they should have given the keys to Hop

[Buffalo716]

https://247sports.com/player/jesse-edwards-46082370/

 

SU on the trails of this 6-11 center from the Netherlands 

[Buffalo716]

On 3/22/2019 at 7:29 AM, DCOrange said:

Think next year's team might be even worse assuming Battle leaves despite his non-existent draft stock, but then again, a part of me is more interested in seeing next year's team because of the uncertainty.

 

I was never high on this year's team once we lost Bazley and I also felt like I knew what we'd get with them. I really have no idea about next year. Assuming Battle leaves, I have no feel for what we're going to do at PG or C. If we play the freshmen, we should theoretically have the best shooting team we've had in a long time. Feels like next year might be a disaster if Carey doesn't take a gigantic leap in year 2 though...I like Goodine and Girard but I'm not sure either of them is capable of being the PG that breaks defenses down like we've been severely lacking.

 

With Boeheim's offensive system (and I use that term loosely because there's not much to it), you really need:

1. At least one guy that handle the ball, both pass and shoot out of ball screens, and sometimes create his own shot 1 on 1
2. Shooters on the wings and at least one secondary ball handler
3. A big man that can set screens, catch the ball, and either roll to the hoop or shoot the jumpshot

This season, we basically didn't have any of that. Battle's never been a gifted passer. Chukwu and Dolezaj certainly weren't much of a threat after setting screens. And Hughes and a small stretch of Boeheim were the only shooting we had. It was just never going to work.

 

I love Chukwu and he was an absolutely incredible defender for us, but his offensive limitations on top of our unwillingness to throw him the ball even when he was completely unguarded was a huge weakness for this team. Add in the insane number of minutes that we give to guys like Brissett that bring almost nothing positive to the team and we had all the makings of a disappointing year; I'm honestly surprised we were as good as we were.

 

I really hope that we can pull some strings between now and the beginning of next year to bring in a center and a ball-handler (though I REALLY like the looks of the Duruji kid too). Maybe just throw Carey, Goodine, and Girard to the wolves and suffer if they can't handle it and bring in a C and Duruji instead.

Looks like you are right man

 

Jimmy B wants Goodine playing PG over his career and Girard more SG

 

hopefully Goodine can adapt better than Franklin Howard

[Johnny Hammersticks]

58 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Looks like you are right man

 

Jimmy B wants Goodine playing PG over his career and Girard more SG

 

hopefully Goodine can adapt better than Franklin Howard

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/2018/06/syracuse_basketball_recruit_brycen_goodine.html%3foutputType=amp

 

Goodine has been preparing this entire season to play PG next year at Syracuse.  He’s tall and long, has a great handle, and can take it to the tin.  I’m sure it will take him a bit to adjust to laying point against college competition, he certainly is the archetype of the Syracuse PG.  Assuming Carey returns and grows from his freshman “yips.”  They’re going to have a decent guard rotation with Goodine, Girard, Boeheim, Carey and (hopefully) Howard Washington.  Hell, Girard and Boeheim could prove to be the best shooting tandem in the NCAA’s.

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/2018/06/syracuse_basketball_recruit_brycen_goodine.html%3foutputType=amp

 

Goodine has been preparing this entire season to play PG next year at Syracuse.  He’s tall and long, has a great handle, and can take it to the tin.  I’m sure it will take him a bit to adjust to laying point against college competition, he certainly is the archetype of the Syracuse PG.  Assuming Carey returns and grows from his freshman “yips.”  They’re going to have a decent guard rotation with Goodine, Girard, Boeheim, Carey and (hopefully) Howard Washington.  Hell, Girard and Boeheim could prove to be the best shooting tandem in the NCAA’s.

Yea . I thought I remember you saying Girard was being recruited as a PG so I thought Goodine might slide to the 2

 

you are right, he is the prototype SU 1 guard... I just wish he sometimes recruited more natural PGs

[Johnny Hammersticks]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Yea . I thought I remember you saying Girard was being recruited as a PG so I thought Goodine might slide to the 2

 

you are right, he is the prototype SU 1 guard... I just wish he sometimes recruited more natural PGs

 

Goodine reminds me of a young Michael Carter-Williams when I watch his highlights.  Would a traditional “fleet of foot” distributing PG work in JB’s system?  Certainly, Boeheim seems to want taller/longer PGs at the top of the zone.  But they also, ideally, need to be able to create their own shot AND shoot well from the perimeter.  I think Frank Howard has changed our expectation of what a Syracuse PG should be.  Frank was not a great ball handler/distributor, was not great on defense, and was not a good outside shooter.

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

Goodine reminds me of a young Michael Carter-Williams when I watch his highlights.  Would a traditional “fleet of foot” distributing PG work in JB’s system?  Certainly, Boeheim seems to want taller/longer PGs at the top of the zone.  But they also, ideally, need to be able to create their own shot AND shoot well from the perimeter.  I think Frank Howard has changed our expectation of what a Syracuse PG should be.  Frank was not a great ball handler/distributor, was not great on defense, and was not a good outside shooter.

I get what your saying. Jim definitely wants a longer guy at the top who can create his own shot, get to the rim or hit a 3... 

 

when I do think of a prototypical SU PG I do think of a Michael Carter Williams type...

 

but Tyler Ennis was that cerebral PG we rarely  get and he was outstanding for 1 season 

 

Jonny Flynn was a shorter guy but could do everything 

[Johnny Hammersticks]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

I get what your saying. Jim definitely wants a longer guy at the top who can create his own shot, get to the rim or hit a 3... 

 

when I do think of a prototypical SU PG I do think of a Michael Carter Williams type...

 

but Tyler Ennis was that cerebral PG we rarely  get and he was outstanding for 1 season 

 

Jonny Flynn was a shorter guy but could do everything 

 

Fair point, but again, I think Frank has skewed our perception of the SU point guard.  Tyler Ennis was more of a traditional game managing PG.  The offense went through him.  But “cerebral” players can come in all shapes and sizes.  Frank Howard was anything but cerebral ?

 

Quade Green was supposed to be that guy, but Frank made certain to sabotage that plan during Green’s recruiting trip ?

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

Fair point, but again, I think Frank has skewed our perception of the SU point guard.  Tyler Ennis was more of a traditional game managing PG.  The offense went through him.  But “cerebral” players can come in all shapes and sizes.  Frank Howard was anything but cerebral ?

 

Quade Green was supposed to be that guy, but Frank made certain to sabotage that plan during Green’s recruiting trip ?

No I agree Franklin was far from cerebral... he certainly wasn’t what we were used too at the position 

 

Here’s hoping to getting back on track 

 

[Buffalo716]

25 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

Fair point, but again, I think Frank has skewed our perception of the SU point guard.  Tyler Ennis was more of a traditional game managing PG.  The offense went through him.  But “cerebral” players can come in all shapes and sizes.  Frank Howard was anything but cerebral ?

 

Quade Green was supposed to be that guy, but Frank made certain to sabotage that plan during Green’s recruiting trip ?

FYI green is now at UW with Hop

 

sure you know tho

[Johnny Hammersticks]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

FYI green is now at UW with Hop

 

sure you know tho

 

Yup.  According to my people, Quade was a Syracuse lock before his official visit (where he was assaulted by Frank Howard), and Hop was his lead recruiter.  This is one of the main reasons Hop wanted Frank gone, but he was overruled by Boeheim.

 

Green was over-recruited and under-utilized at Kentucky.  He will be eligible for Hop in January 2020, and he will be a good one.  Definitely more of a traditional PG.