Sean McDermott: "Culture Trumps Strategy" ?​​​​​​​

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Ol Dirty B said:

 

Really? We disagree on the team but I was just starting to not mind your posts.

 

Meh... whatever. 

 

 

Come on now, don't get all sensitive on me.

 

 

[Ol Dirty B]

Just now, joesixpack said:

 

 

Come on now, don't get all sensitive on me.

 

 

 

Lol I'm not we're good. I was just hoping for a response to my lame Muslim post

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

Lol I'm not we're good. I was just hoping for a response to my lame Muslim post

 

 

Kinda swampy today, feeling unenergetic.

 

Heh.

 

 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

14 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Isn't KB making 12 million?

 

Watkins is by far the better player. 

 

Isnt Star making almost as much as Dareus?

 

Dareus is the better player.

 

Cap hell my ass.

 

niether KB or injury prone watkins can stay healthy, so that comparison is bogus.

 

as for MD, he is clearly making more than star and they did right by trading him and his contract to the jags.

 

 

spotrac links

 

star

 

MD

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2018 by no name

[oldmanfan]

14 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

I can see why you like McDermott. You say nothing in your posts

 

The !@#$ did I just read? Sorry, I like details. Kodak failed because they relied on old technology and liked their film profit margin and decided digital photography would ruin that. They had digital photography in the 80s. They also over spent on offices, a floor at the Marriott in Rochester, upgraded most to first class when they flew to essentially burn money.

 

Why dont you answer my question about Jordan as an owner? If he knows a "winning culture" why can't he instill it in a team he owns?

 

I was going to say it in my last post but I bit my tongue. You're wandering off into waters where you dont know what you're talking about. My posts mention details and specifics. You sound like a 70 something repeating stuff he heard at his community college night school class.

You've offered nothing approaching detail in any of your posts that I can see.  All you keep whining about is that culture means nothing, which flies in the face of pretty much anything known about organizational success.

 

Jordan?  I don't follow the NBA, but if I had to guess it's because he has not as an owner put into place the kinds of policies and procedures necessary to be successful in the league. Culture is to define what your goals are as an organization, how you do your work, how you set your priorities, how you align your organization to achieve your goals. Reinsdorf, Jackson et al did that with the Bulls, Jordan had to buy in and help with that.  He now has to set that as the leader of the entire organization.

 

 

[ColoradoBills]

15 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

KB is making 8.5 million and he is off the books after this season. Sammy is due 32 million in 2019 and 2020. Star's cap hit this season is 6.5 million much lower than Dareus's but had Dareus stayed with the Bills he would be a 15 million dollar cap hit in 2019 and 2020 whereas Star is a 10 million dollar cap hit. Once again if the Bills had Sammy, Dareus, Tyrod, Darby, and Glenn are they a contender? 

 

I am also not defending the Star contract or the ability for McBeane to sign pro-talent. However that doesn't mean the philsophy of getting draft capital and dumping players on big contracts wasn't the right move in philsophy. The Bills holding onto aging injury prone talent to win a little more in the short term wouldn't help the team. 

 

Save your breath 89.  After the bad loss in GB Sunday there is blood in the water.

I can make a top 10 list of things that Beane and McDermott have not done correctly (IMO) BUT not signing Watkins and dumping Dareus were

both proper moves by them.

 

Beane and McDermott's success or failure will be decided on Josh Allen and this coming off season selections.

 

This thread is the only example you need to see where things are now on this board.

18 pages of people "tearing at their clothes" over a Head Coach "coach speak" comment on "culture" is all I need to see.

[Keukasmallies]

On 10/4/2018 at 11:07 AM, oldmanfan said:

Not really.  A big part of the job of any leader of any organization is to set the culture up front, set the parameters by which your organization will run, what it will prioritize, what it will value.  Those who get it stay around to help build, those that want to fight that wind up leaving.  Now, the leader also has to do a good job of explaining the rationale why she or he sets those priorities, and of course has to attract and maintain talent regardless if that talent is a nurse or graphic designer or forklift operator or NFL player.  But it still comes down to setting the culture of how you want your organization to function, how you want it to be.  Setting strategies based on that.

 

A good example of setting a culture with expectations is Belichick.  What does he say to his players, what is the culture he has set?  "do your job."  a simple statement, but one that has profound effects on how that team operates.

 

Might not be quite that simple.  Changing a culture from one that appears to accept losing to one that focuses on winning takes more than repeating a slogan or two.

Edited October 5, 2018 by Keukasmallies

[Ol Dirty B]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

You've offered nothing approaching detail in any of your posts that I can see.  All you keep whining about is that culture means nothing, which flies in the face of pretty much anything known about organizational success.

 

Jordan?  I don't follow the NBA, but if I had to guess it's because he has not as an owner put into place the kinds of policies and procedures necessary to be successful in the league. Culture is to define what your goals are as an organization, how you do your work, how you set your priorities, how you align your organization to achieve your goals. Reinsdorf, Jackson et al did that with the Bulls, Jordan had to buy in and help with that.  He now has to set that as the leader of the entire organization.

 

 

 

So you were holding up Jordan and Bird as examples of this organizational culture, but you dont follow the NBA.

 

Got it.

[BADOLBILZ]

22 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well, I don't know. 

Pegula might be all "Wooo!  Team made the playoffs last year!  Party!  This year, Anything Goes!"

I don't think Pegula cares what the fans per se think.  But then again, Pegula  (based on various) does seem to care if he's a laughingstock in the media.

 

I've said it elsewhere, and I'll say it here.  I think Pegula was prepared for a losing season this year, and had no intentions of making any changes.

But I think that intention was based on the assumption of fielding a competent team that played hard and just lacked the full talent to close the deal each week.  Sort of like AZ, which is 0-4 but, their 2 last games were decided by 3 points or less and where their offense last week under Rosen moved the ball and looked pretty good.

 

If the weekly embarrassments where the Bills are a laughingstock continue,  I think all bets are off.

 

 

 

 

I tend to think that Pegula will endure McBeane for this season and most or all of next season regardless..........mainly because they are concerned about being perceived as impatient and/or meddling.

 

But it wouldn't be inherently wrong or detrimental to give up on McBeane after only two seasons.

 

Since their hot start last season they've been bad........and sometimes *good* isn't even enough.

 

 I mean when Meathead got fired in Tennessee after making the playoffs I think all Bills fans understood why.   The Titans could do better.

 

And with a young Josh Allen at QB to offer along with a simple,  fairly well-stocked defense and a bunch of high draft picks and cap room and a locker room with decent attitudes this could be a fairly attractive job.     In some ways it mirrors the LA Rams job that McVay took.    

[Logic]

I did not read through the 18 pages of what I'm sure were RIVETING and well-composed responses, but I just wanted to say this:

It was clarified later on that McDermott was referring to the strategy of player acquisition and releases, not gameday Xs and Os strategy. So...yeah.

Chill.

[PlayoffsPlease]

5 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

I agree this is an interesting topic for discussion, and I am not trying to take shots at your comments, merely to respond to them.  You said his idea of culture is similar to his "trust the process" statements.  In a way, yes.  Trusting the process means to me the entirety of what McD and Beane are doing to met their vision of building a team that will compete for titles every year, and win Lombardis.  Culture to me is somewhat different, and I have already indicated what I think his view of culture is:  it's dedication to football. Whether it's what you're doing in the weight room, film room, practice field, or in games, are you giving maximum effort to being a successful NFL player. 

 

I like all your thoughts on strategy.  All of these are important in building a team.  And that roster building strategy is formulated based on establishing the kind of culture for the organization.  Talent without discipline can work, but more times can be destructive.  That is why they likely were not interested in a guy like Gordon.  It is why Dareus got traded (as you correctly point out you don't have a DT commanding the highest salary on a team, especially if he doesn't fit the culture).

 

I would be interested in your thoughts on the way successful franchises of the past and present have successful cultures.  Part of that is having your best guys, guys like Brady, Jordan, Bird, be the guys who demand excellence from their teammates, demand accountability.  Right now with the Bills it's McD driving that bus, with help from guys like Kyle and Zo.  As things go forward, and as he builds the team, what one hopes to see is that the mainstays of the team (hopefully guys like Allen and Edmunds) demand that same accountability.  Then you'll know you have something.  Then you bring in maybe a guy that's more of a challenge and the team and its culture are so set in place that a guy like that adjusts his perspective. 

 

So to me culture is where you start.  Not that strategy isn't necessary, it certainly is.  Not that as part of that strategy you have to find talented players that are complementary and so on.  But before you do that, you have to know who you are and what you are as a team and an organization.  And that's culture.

Yes I do. The reason I talked about my organization is I saw and have been a part of how changing the culture of the organization led to enhanced success.

 

If you don't think that the culture of an organization means anything to success, then you clearly don't know anything about how successful organizations are created.  I'll stand by that - the examples are far too numerous to mention, both in and out of sports.

These are literally three of the most gift athletes in history. If there talent was mostly about leadership then we would be seeing the Pacers vs the Hornets in a lot more NBA championships than we do.   I would use those three players as examples of why having the most talented players is the most important aspect of winning.  You can surround them with thugs and clowns like Aaron Hernandez or Dennis Rodman and still win championships.  

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

19 minutes ago, Logic said:

I did not read through the 18 pages of what I'm sure were RIVETING and well-composed responses, but I just wanted to say this:
It was clarified later on that McDermott was referring to the strategy of player acquisition and releases, not gameday Xs and Os strategy. So...yeah.
Chill.

 

My armed forces active and vet friends are always telling me I get "strategy" and "tactics" mixed so take this with a grain of salt.

 

But I would call both the player acquisition/release AND the Xs and Os stuff "tactics"

 

I would call "strategy" the big picture - like "On D, we want to run a 3-4 and zone" or "On O, we want a mobile, Roeth- or Newton style QB and a strong run game" and perhaps the order in which you build things - Lines-out, or Key positions first etc.

 

I would call "tactics" the nitty gritties of what specific players you try to acquire and release and gameday Xs and Os

[Big Gun]

2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Keep on proving my point.  Kodak failed because their culture did not allow them the strategize appropriately enough to adapt. 

 

When you say winning culture is for losers - that pretty much shows your ignorance of how successful operations are successful operations.

Kodak failed because their decision makers made wrong decisions, kind of like McBean I'd doing.

[HeHateMe]

2 hours ago, joesixpack said:

 

Don't be an idiot. You wouldn't talk like that if he was muslim.

 

 

Relax there guy.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

30 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

I tend to think that Pegula will endure McBeane for this season and most or all of next season regardless..........mainly because they are concerned about being perceived as impatient and/or meddling.

 

Ho!  I didn't think of that.  I should have.  If the Bills keep up the embarrassment, Pegulas are in a cleft stick.

Fire 'em - "Owners are impatient and meddling"

Keep 'em - "Owners have no judgement, Franchise is a joke"

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Isn't KB making 12 million?

Watkins is by far the better player. 

 

$8.5M.  But then there's the $3.5M peanuts we scattered for Coleman.    $8.5+$3.5 = $12M

 

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Isnt Star making almost as much as Dareus?

Dareus is the better player.

 

$6.7M this year (Star) vs $9.9M (Dareus) plus different distribution of the bonus

Once, Dareus was by far the better player.  Last year he was here - I'm not sure he was better than Star.

 

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Cap hell my ass.

 

The cap hell is real, but it's a hell of our own creating.

[oldmanfan]

50 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

So you were holding up Jordan and Bird as examples of this organizational culture, but you dont follow the NBA.

 

Got it.

Followed itvwhen they played back in the 80's-90's.  Your question was about Jordan as owner 20-30 years later, and I don't follow it now.

 

Brilliant deduction on your part.

[Wroughting]

2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Culture is to define what your goals are as an organization, how you do your work, how you set your priorities, how you align your organization to achieve your goals.

 

 

 

You're confused, that's strategy.

 

Strategy is a high-level plan to achieve one or more goals under conditions of uncertainty.

 

You keep talking about Mcdermott's vision, again, that's strategy. 

 

The goal of every head coach should be to win the super bowl. How he gets there is his strategy. Our coach's strategy appears to be collecting a bunch of guys that love to play football,  call it culture, play fundamentally sound and hope to win. So far it's been a pretty mediocre strategy, little good, little bad. It's an older strategy, one we've seen before in Buffalo many times to mostly poor results. 

 

Culture isn't real, it's something losers talk about winners having to give themselves hope. Some intangible thing is all they're lacking, it's not that the other team is more talented or employs better tactics. 

 

You know what most successful organizations do? They find margins and they exploit them. The Patriots have done this for years. Pick plays, deflated footballs, taping practices and who knows what else. They find the widest margin they can and live there as long as they can. In the business world companies exploit cheap labor, lax regulations, tax breaks, all sorts of things. I'm sure the Chinese kids working to build my iPhone aren't talking about how great the culture at Apple is. 

 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2018 by Wroughting

[oldmanfan]

41 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

These are literally three of the most gift athletes in history. If there talent was mostly about leadership then we would be seeing the Pacers vs the Hornets in a lot more NBA championships than we do.   I would use those three players as examples of why having the most talented players is the most important aspect of winning.  You can surround them with thugs and clowns like Aaron Hernandez or Dennis Rodman and still win championships.  

 

You are confusing talentvand culture again.  I have never said you don't need talent.  Neither did McD although people keep trying to say he did.

 

Talent wedded to a solid culture makes teams and organizations successful.  The three guys I mentioned are the types that worked hardest in practice.  They challenged their teammates to do the same and accepted no less than that.  That is how culture can make organizations successful.

 

5 minutes ago, Wroughting said:

 

You're confused, that's strategy.

 

Strategy is a high-level plan to achieve one or more goals under conditions of uncertainty.

 

You keep talking about Mcdermott's vision, again, that's strategy. 

 

The goal of every head coach should be to win the super bowl. How he gets there is his strategy. Our coach's strategy appears to be collecting a bunch of guys that love to play football,  call it culture, play fundamentally sound and hope to win. So far it's been a pretty mediocre strategy, little good, little bad. It's an older strategy, one we've seen before in Buffalo many times to mostly poor results. 

 

Culture isn't real, it's something losers talk about winners having to give themselves hope. Some intangible thing is all they're lacking, it's not that the other team is more talented or employs better tactics. 

 

You know what most successful organizations do? They find margins and they exploit them. The Patriots have done this for years. Pick plays, deflated footballs, taping practices and who knows what else. They find the widest margin they can and live there as long as they can. In the business world companies exploit cheap labor, lax regulations, tax breaks, all sorts of things. I'm sure the Chinese kids working to build my iPhone aren't taking about how great the culture at Apple is. 

 

 

 

I disagree.  Culture is the expectations you place on the employees of a company.  It's you DNA and that DNA influences all you do from there.  Mission and vision statements define culture in my view (and where I work), and directly affect strategic decisions.

 

I invite you to visit any successful company and ask them if culture isn't real.  I think they will tell you that you are mistaken.

[dickleyjones]

12 minutes ago, Wroughting said:

 

You're confused, that's strategy.

 

Strategy is a high-level plan to achieve one or more goals under conditions of uncertainty.

 

You keep talking about Mcdermott's vision, again, that's strategy. 

 

The goal of every head coach should be to win the super bowl. How he gets there is his strategy. Our coach's strategy appears to be collecting a bunch of guys that love to play football,  call it culture, play fundamentally sound and hope to win. So far it's been a pretty mediocre strategy, little good, little bad. It's an older strategy, one we've seen before in Buffalo many times to mostly poor results. 

 

Culture isn't real, it's something losers talk about winners having to give themselves hope. Some intangible thing is all they're lacking, it's not that the other team is more talented or employs better tactics. 

 

You know what most successful organizations do? They find margins and they exploit them. The Patriots have done this for years. Pick plays, deflated footballs, taping practices and who knows what else. They find the widest margin they can and live there as long as they can. In the business world companies exploit cheap labor, lax regulations, tax breaks, all sorts of things. I'm sure the Chinese kids working to build my iPhone aren't taking about how great the culture at Apple is. 

 

 

 

 

culture is real. and it is part of strategy. this is really not difficult...