oldmanfan Posted October 4, 2018 Posted October 4, 2018 6 minutes ago, teef said: some people are acting like this year is the final product this staff is shooting for. i think if we all take a step back and look, it's obvious that it's not. again, i'm not saying that everything will work out, but this staff needs to be given this offseason to put their team together. i get the disappointment of a down year, but there are many that are just taking this as an opportunity to join in one large pity party. I certainly don't agree with everything they're doing with respect to the roster. I would like to see a veteran QB backing up Allen. I'd start Boettiger and Teller. But to argue that organizational culture is immaterial to the success or failure of an organization is just mind boggling and flies in the face of pretty much everything known about organizational strategy. S I couldn't agree more about whether or not they'll be successful. It will depend on Allen developing, and how well they draft and get FAs in within the next year or two. And how they approach that, how they do that? Part of their culture.
Keukasmallies Posted October 4, 2018 Posted October 4, 2018 Isn't culture a concept that grows out of a series of circumstances that occur over time? If so, working to build a successful football team within the parameters agreed to by team owner and officials would seem to come first; then the "culture" will slowly emerge from those efforts. Or, just keep blindly taking the TV, season tickets, and concession monies and forget the whole winning thingy. In other words, continue the culture in place at present.
Nihilarian Posted October 4, 2018 Posted October 4, 2018 John Fox was also a defensive minded NFL head coach who first stated he wanted high FOOTBALL Character guys...where is he now? Meanwhile McD has signed, retained and drafted low character players! It was Marv Levy that stated back in the 80s that... "Football doesn't build character, it reveals character." "Ability without character will lose. The Bills are going to be a team of high character. That stamp I will push very hard. I hope we can convey that to our fans and project something very special to the rest of the nation." — What also made Marv so good was his confidence in his own job security that he hired an ex Colts head coach in Ted Marchibroda to coach his offense. Ole Ted instilled that hurry up/no huddle offense with the old Redskins "counter trey" run scheme so Thurman could make those great cutbacks. Then he taught Jimbo to call his own offensive plays like the old time QBs used to do. So it didn't matter that much to the Buffalo offense when Marchibroda was rehired by the Colts to be their HC.
oldmanfan Posted October 4, 2018 Posted October 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, Keukasmallies said: Isn't culture a concept that grows out of a series of circumstances that occur over time? If so, working to build a successful football team within the parameters agreed to by team owner and officials would seem to come first; then the "culture" will slowly emerge from those efforts. Or, just keep blindly taking the TV, season tickets, and concession monies and forget the whole winning thingy. In other words, continue the culture in place at present. Not really. A big part of the job of any leader of any organization is to set the culture up front, set the parameters by which your organization will run, what it will prioritize, what it will value. Those who get it stay around to help build, those that want to fight that wind up leaving. Now, the leader also has to do a good job of explaining the rationale why she or he sets those priorities, and of course has to attract and maintain talent regardless if that talent is a nurse or graphic designer or forklift operator or NFL player. But it still comes down to setting the culture of how you want your organization to function, how you want it to be. Setting strategies based on that. A good example of setting a culture with expectations is Belichick. What does he say to his players, what is the culture he has set? "do your job." a simple statement, but one that has profound effects on how that team operates.
YoloinOhio Posted October 4, 2018 Posted October 4, 2018 31 minutes ago, BillnutinHouston said: What part of McD's quote removes accountability from the culture equation? Narratives are tricky
BigBuff423 Posted October 4, 2018 Posted October 4, 2018 52 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: What exactly is your point? The Giants lost in consecutive season because they lost a lot of their talent from those Super Bowl years and Manning has struggled. Coughlin, one of the better coaches when coaching of the league was HC. Culture had nothing do with them losing. They were void of talent. It wasn't a coincidence the year they went on a spending spree in FA they won 11 games that next year. You misquoted me and took issue with my post. It’s on you to go back and re-read my original post as you misquoted me from the beginning and took issue with something I didn’t say. So, enjoy your day and Go Bills! 1 1
HeHateMe Posted October 4, 2018 Posted October 4, 2018 1 hour ago, joesixpack said: Because this has anything to do with what he's talking about. It may
Ol Dirty B Posted October 4, 2018 Posted October 4, 2018 1 hour ago, oldmanfan said: Just proving my point once again. first, it's clear you have no idea about how successful organizations are run. Second, you know why I mention guys like Jordan? because they are the epitome of successful culture. Talented guys who despite their talent were also the guys who worked the hardest in practice, who made their teammates work hard, held them up to a higher standard. There's a reason guys like Iverson, also very talented, never won anything. They did not establish or buy into a culture tuned into success. Just admit you have no clue and move on. I've put a challenge out there to name me just one successful organization that did not care about their culture. If you're so smart and think it means nothing, name one. You think guys like Dareus and Gilmore are fighting the cultures established by their current teams? You think Gilmore especially tells Belichick he doesn't care about how they do things in New England. Laughable. So what do you think about Jordan as an NBA owner? I mean if he gets this "winning culture" stuff, why hasn't he ever been able to instill it into a team that he owns? You're wandering off and talking about stuff you don't know anymore. I'd just stop and save face if I were you. Just saying you don't get it only makes it look like I don't know what I'm talking about to the idiots. There is no one size fits all thing with this culture ****. Every business is different. Did you run Kodak into the ground? I've come across those people and you sound like one of them. 1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said: Where is talent vs character mentioned? It’s culture and strategy in building a roster. None of these coaches including McD never said they don’t value talent. They said they don’t ONLY value talent in a vacuum. The character point continually goes over everyone’s head no matter how many times it is clarified that he wants FOOTBALL CHARACTER. He has drafted, retained and signed players who have arrests, baggage and suspensions. I've seen it all over this thread. I kind of agree with you, I don't particularly like listening to McDermott speak because it's all vague and cliches. It just allows people to twist his words into what they want. I find what he said yesterday conflicting, because I agree with you, they have retained or brought in guys they identify as talented who have question marks. Their analysis of those players has been questionable though. What concerns me is this winning culture bs. It doesn't trump anything, schemes, game plans, and being better prepared trump winning culture. Then those who beat the culture guys are labelled for having a winning culture. Their is no such thing as a winning culture. What about the Eagles last year? Culture has nothing to do with this. Winning culture is for losers. First time he drags this **** out is after a shut out. I don't want to hear about winning culture from a guy who just got shut out. Winning culture is some stupid phrase you bring out when you don't have any answers. Like all of his other tired lame cliches. 1
dpberr Posted October 4, 2018 Posted October 4, 2018 1 hour ago, BillnutinHouston said: What part of McD's quote removes accountability from the culture equation? It's conspicuous by its omission. Without accountability, McDermott's tenure will differ little from Rex Ryan's tenure. Ryan was all about culture and loyalty too, with next to no accountability. Castillo and Robeskie may be great for culture but there are obvious problems with the OL and WR units. The OL persistently looks lost. The WRs have significant problems with concentration and motivation. That falls not just on the players but the coaches entrusted to teach them and get them ready for the games. My hot take is there is significant interpersonal issues between Daboll and the more experienced coaches under him in the "I've been a coach in this league for decades. This guy has no idea what he's doing..." sort of tack and it's percolating down through the players. 1
oldmanfan Posted October 4, 2018 Posted October 4, 2018 31 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said: So what do you think about Jordan as an NBA owner? I mean if he gets this "winning culture" stuff, why hasn't he ever been able to instill it into a team that he owns? You're wandering off and talking about stuff you don't know anymore. I'd just stop and save face if I were you. Just saying you don't get it only makes it look like I don't know what I'm talking about to the idiots. There is no one size fits all thing with this culture ****. Every business is different. Did you run Kodak into the ground? I've come across those people and you sound like one of them. I've seen it all over this thread. I kind of agree with you, I don't particularly like listening to McDermott speak because it's all vague and cliches. It just allows people to twist his words into what they want. I find what he said yesterday conflicting, because I agree with you, they have retained or brought in guys they identify as talented who have question marks. Their analysis of those players has been questionable though. What concerns me is this winning culture bs. It doesn't trump anything, schemes, game plans, and being better prepared trump winning culture. Then those who beat the culture guys are labelled for having a winning culture. Their is no such thing as a winning culture. What about the Eagles last year? Culture has nothing to do with this. Winning culture is for losers. First time he drags this **** out is after a shut out. I don't want to hear about winning culture from a guy who just got shut out. Winning culture is some stupid phrase you bring out when you don't have any answers. Like all of his other tired lame cliches. Keep on proving my point. Kodak failed because their culture did not allow them the strategize appropriately enough to adapt. When you say winning culture is for losers - that pretty much shows your ignorance of how successful operations are successful operations.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 4, 2018 Posted October 4, 2018 58 minutes ago, HeHateMe said: It may Don't be an idiot. You wouldn't talk like that if he was muslim.
billsfan89 Posted October 4, 2018 Posted October 4, 2018 3 hours ago, pop gun said: Did you know the Eagles were a middling .500 team, made a couple of moves, added a few key pieces and won a Super Bowl. Imagine they did all that without purging their roster of all their good young players. IDK, but I dont think they needed $90m in cap space to get it done, and more so they have a couple of our retreads they did it with and we had a couple of their guys we couldn't get it done with. McBeans team better get better real soon or, IMO they will be looking for work. The Bills traded away Sammy, Darby, Dareus, Glenn, and Tyrod. Besides Darby (Who did not fit the scheme McD intended to run) all those players were either older or injury prone. Getting value for those players while shedding their contracts is the proper way to build a team. Do you think that this team would be a contender with those players on this team occupying 60 million on the cap? Sammy is making 16 million a year for the next 3 seasons and when the Bills traded him Sammy was a injury prone player. Dareus was a 28 year old player on a massive contract who was a under performing malcontent in the locker room. Cordy Glenn hadn't played a full season since 2015 and was on a massive contract, he was also 29 years old, not ancient but not young. Tyrod had one year remaining on his deal and although I would have preferred to keep him for the final year but the draft compensation was solid and he was gone after one year anyway. The only young player without a massive injury history the team gave up was Darby. The method to success in the NFL is to build around a rookie QB on a cheap contract. The Bills have Allen who once the 2019 season comes around will have 3 years remaining on his deal with a 5th year option. The Bills will be in a position to add a massive amount of talent in short order around a young QB instead of paying injury prone older players. 1
Ol Dirty B Posted October 4, 2018 Posted October 4, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Keep on proving my point. Kodak failed because their culture did not allow them the strategize appropriately enough to adapt. When you say winning culture is for losers - that pretty much shows your ignorance of how successful operations are successful operations. I can see why you like McDermott. You say nothing in your posts The !@#$ did I just read? Sorry, I like details. Kodak failed because they relied on old technology and liked their film profit margin and decided digital photography would ruin that. They had digital photography in the 80s. They also over spent on offices, a floor at the Marriott in Rochester, upgraded most to first class when they flew to essentially burn money. Why dont you answer my question about Jordan as an owner? If he knows a "winning culture" why can't he instill it in a team he owns? I was going to say it in my last post but I bit my tongue. You're wandering off into waters where you dont know what you're talking about. My posts mention details and specifics. You sound like a 70 something repeating stuff he heard at his community college night school class. Edited October 4, 2018 by Ol Dirty B 4
Ol Dirty B Posted October 4, 2018 Posted October 4, 2018 5 minutes ago, joesixpack said: Don't be an idiot. You wouldn't talk like that if he was muslim. Haha, pegulas hiring a muslim. Sorry that's a troll post I just wanted to make the joke
Ol Dirty B Posted October 4, 2018 Posted October 4, 2018 Just now, ScottLaw said: Isn't KB making 12 million? Watkins is by far the better player. Isnt Star making almost as much as Dareus? Dareus is the better player. Cap hell my ass. These people dont know what they are talking about. They just say you dont get winning culture or business or organizations for some reason. Yet they never mention details or accountability. But we're the ones who don't know what we're talking about 1
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 4, 2018 Posted October 4, 2018 1 minute ago, Ol Dirty B said: But we're the ones who don't know what we're talking about Now you're starting to get it. 1
billsfan89 Posted October 4, 2018 Posted October 4, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Isn't KB making 12 million? Watkins is by far the better player. Isnt Star making almost as much as Dareus? Dareus is the better player. Cap hell my ass. KB is making 8.5 million and he is off the books after this season. Sammy is due 32 million in 2019 and 2020. Star's cap hit this season is 6.5 million much lower than Dareus's but had Dareus stayed with the Bills he would be a 15 million dollar cap hit in 2019 and 2020 whereas Star is a 10 million dollar cap hit. Once again if the Bills had Sammy, Dareus, Tyrod, Darby, and Glenn are they a contender? I am also not defending the Star contract or the ability for McBeane to sign pro-talent. However that doesn't mean the philsophy of getting draft capital and dumping players on big contracts wasn't the right move in philsophy. The Bills holding onto aging injury prone talent to win a little more in the short term wouldn't help the team. Edited October 4, 2018 by billsfan89 1
YoloinOhio Posted October 4, 2018 Posted October 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, May Day 10 said: Wasnt this marv levy's big mission as gm? Yesterday, Thurman said talent trumps culture, but yet the ‘Bickering Bills’ didn’t start winning until they changed the culture in the room. It takes both. Successful coaches realize that. Assembling a fantasy football team is different than a real football team. When making difficult personnel decisions, whether the player embodies the culture of the program he’s building is very important to McD and can be a deciding factor. They are rebuilding the team and aren’t done yet so yes, the talent still needs built in some areas. I don’t know how this becomes such a negative thing other than thirsty media and lazy agendas. 3
Ol Dirty B Posted October 4, 2018 Posted October 4, 2018 1 minute ago, joesixpack said: Now you're starting to get it. Really? We disagree on the team but I was just starting to not mind your posts. Meh... whatever.
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