Sean McDermott: "Culture Trumps Strategy" ?​​​​​​​

[Ol Dirty B]

2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

 

You clearly have no clue what constitutes a successful organization.

 

You can't even quote a post.

[YoloinOhio]

Another person who constantly talks about this is Urban Meyer. Who would listen to those two unproven hacks though. 

 

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

You can't even quote a post.

I read your post in response to what I wrote.  And based on that you clearly have no idea how successful organizations operate.  What exactly did I miss?

[Ol Dirty B]

3 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Another person who constantly talks about this is Urban Meyer. Who would listen to those two unproven hacks though. 

 

 

You mean the Urban Meyer that routinely has top 5 classes, or the Bill Belichick that has brought in the Dillons, the moss's, the Chad johnsons, Aaron Hernandez's, Revis's, Coleman's, and Gordon's. 

 

Countless others. I don't know why this is becoming a talent vs character thing, I'm more concerned about schemes. 

 

Culture is for losers. But ramble on about organizations and ****. I feel like I'm back in college in a business administration class with people throwing out terms and theories they know nothing about.

[Ol Dirty B]

18 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I read your post in response to what I wrote.  And based on that you clearly have no idea how successful organizations operate.  What exactly did I miss?

 

And you do? Lol

 

I like how if you agree with McDermott you all of the sudden know how to run a business or organization, but if you disagree you're dismissed.

 

Edited October 4, 2018 by Ol Dirty B

[oldmanfan]

14 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

1) McD said culture is more important than strategy.  
2) This means something is  more important that strategy
3) at no point did i say or suggest McD trivialized strategy. 
4) I put forward my understanding of what he meant by "culture" which I stand by. It means something.  Feel free to provide your own explanation of what culture means in the context of what the Bills are doing
5) I stated that roster building strategy involves finding complimentary players.  I am going to give an expanded definition of roster building strategy. 
      5a.  Adding players whose skills sets complement each other.  examples.   The Redskins hogs and John Riggins.  perfect complement.  Tom Brady and Wes Welker/Julian Edelman perfect compliment. Drew Brees and Jimmy Graham. Perfect compliment.  
      5b. determining what positions should have the biggest investment in salary cap.   past mistakes include having your highest paid player be a DT.   
      5.c.  estimating the values of draft picks compared against each other.  for example. Is the #4 overall pick more valuable than two later first round picks.  This changes from draft to draft. One strategy is focused more on identifying special players.  The alternative strategy means having more numbers of players. 
    5.d  Salary distribution strategy. Am I better off with a super high priced Khalil Mack, supplemented with two rookie salaries, or would I be better off with 3 10 million players on defense.  Different strategies.  Both could work. 

6)McD's plain words say that whatever culture means, it is more important than roster building strategy. 


I personally disagree.  

I agree this is an interesting topic for discussion, and I am not trying to take shots at your comments, merely to respond to them.  You said his idea of culture is similar to his "trust the process" statements.  In a way, yes.  Trusting the process means to me the entirety of what McD and Beane are doing to met their vision of building a team that will compete for titles every year, and win Lombardis.  Culture to me is somewhat different, and I have already indicated what I think his view of culture is:  it's dedication to football. Whether it's what you're doing in the weight room, film room, practice field, or in games, are you giving maximum effort to being a successful NFL player. 

 

I like all your thoughts on strategy.  All of these are important in building a team.  And that roster building strategy is formulated based on establishing the kind of culture for the organization.  Talent without discipline can work, but more times can be destructive.  That is why they likely were not interested in a guy like Gordon.  It is why Dareus got traded (as you correctly point out you don't have a DT commanding the highest salary on a team, especially if he doesn't fit the culture).

 

I would be interested in your thoughts on the way successful franchises of the past and present have successful cultures.  Part of that is having your best guys, guys like Brady, Jordan, Bird, be the guys who demand excellence from their teammates, demand accountability.  Right now with the Bills it's McD driving that bus, with help from guys like Kyle and Zo.  As things go forward, and as he builds the team, what one hopes to see is that the mainstays of the team (hopefully guys like Allen and Edmunds) demand that same accountability.  Then you'll know you have something.  Then you bring in maybe a guy that's more of a challenge and the team and its culture are so set in place that a guy like that adjusts his perspective. 

 

So to me culture is where you start.  Not that strategy isn't necessary, it certainly is.  Not that as part of that strategy you have to find talented players that are complementary and so on.  But before you do that, you have to know who you are and what you are as a team and an organization.  And that's culture.

3 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

And you do? Lol

 

I like how if you agree with McDermott you all of the sudden know how to run a business or organization, but if you disagree you're dismissed.

 

Yes I do. The reason I talked about my organization is I saw and have been a part of how changing the culture of the organization led to enhanced success.

 

If you don't think that the culture of an organization means anything to success, then you clearly don't know anything about how successful organizations are created.  I'll stand by that - the examples are far too numerous to mention, both in and out of sports.

[Big Gun]

6 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I agree this is an interesting topic for discussion, and I am not trying to take shots at your comments, merely to respond to them.  You said his idea of culture is similar to his "trust the process" statements.  In a way, yes.  Trusting the process means to me the entirety of what McD and Beane are doing to met their vision of building a team that will compete for titles every year, and win Lombardis.  Culture to me is somewhat different, and I have already indicated what I think his view of culture is:  it's dedication to football. Whether it's what you're doing in the weight room, film room, practice field, or in games, are you giving maximum effort to being a successful NFL player. 

 

I like all your thoughts on strategy.  All of these are important in building a team.  And that roster building strategy is formulated based on establishing the kind of culture for the organization.  Talent without discipline can work, but more times can be destructive.  That is why they likely were not interested in a guy like Gordon.  It is why Dareus got traded (as you correctly point out you don't have a DT commanding the highest salary on a team, especially if he doesn't fit the culture).

 

I would be interested in your thoughts on the way successful franchises of the past and present have successful cultures.  Part of that is having your best guys, guys like Brady, Jordan, Bird, be the guys who demand excellence from their teammates, demand accountability.  Right now with the Bills it's McD driving that bus, with help from guys like Kyle and Zo.  As things go forward, and as he builds the team, what one hopes to see is that the mainstays of the team (hopefully guys like Allen and Edmunds) demand that same accountability.  Then you'll know you have something.  Then you bring in maybe a guy that's more of a challenge and the team and its culture are so set in place that a guy like that adjusts his perspective. 

 

So to me culture is where you start.  Not that strategy isn't necessary, it certainly is.  Not that as part of that strategy you have to find talented players that are complementary and so on.  But before you do that, you have to know who you are and what you are as a team and an organization.  And that's culture.

Yes I do. The reason I talked about my organization is I saw and have been a part of how changing the culture of the organization led to enhanced success.

 

If you don't think that the culture of an organization means anything to success, then you clearly don't know anything about how successful organizations are created.  I'll stand by that - the examples are far too numerous to mention, both in and out of sports.

And how many of those people have a career average of 4 years, injury could end their career at any time, get paid millions and are all Alpha males? It's not the same no matter how hard you try and spin it as similar, it's just not.

[HeHateMe]

Team needs more good practicing Christians.. and more clapping.

[SoTier]

11 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Ducasse is at LG next to Dawkins.  Not that the same principle doesn't apply.

I don't know if I agree entirely about the bull manure, though.  At times, I would agree they "simply aren't good enough to be better" - they simply are getting beaten, or walked back into the QB.

 

But some of that is matchup - asking Mills (or worse, Lee) to block Clay Matthews 1:1, for example.  Not gonna happen.  Give that boy some help.

And some of it is scheme - our OL often seems confused, with two guys blocking 1 defender while another runs free.  Or they're being asked to cut block, which they can't seem to do effectively 8 times out of 10.

 

Those things could be improved, although the people who need to try harder are not the players, but the coaches.

 

 

Mea culpa on confusing the guards.  I knew that Ducasse was moved to the left side but the brain apparently wasn't totally in gear.

 

I totally agree that the coaches rather than the players are the ones who have to "try harder", but there comes a time when the HC has to take the responsibility for poor game performance on himself.  I'm not seeing that in a statement that essentially blames the players.

[oldmanfan]

25 minutes ago, pop gun said:

And how many of those people have a career average of 4 years, injury could end their career at any time, get paid millions and are all Alpha males? It's not the same no matter how hard you try and spin it as similar, it's just not.

Your points are moot.  Has nothing to do with amount of time a career has, injuries, etc.  Successful organizations built for sustained success have cultures that support such success.  I am astounded at how many people here fail to grasp that.  Go talk to your CEO of your company and ask her or him.

[Ol Dirty B]

42 minutes ago, pop gun said:

And how many of those people have a career average of 4 years, injury could end their career at any time, get paid millions and are all Alpha males? It's not the same no matter how hard you try and spin it as similar, it's just not.

 

He's clueless. He thinks you can press a cookie cutter called successful culture on organizations. He also named Jordan, Brady, and Bird. Some of the best ever to do what they do which is counter to the point completely.

 

Jordan punched Kerr in the face during practice. But I'm sure that goes right along with whatever culture narrative this clueless oldman is spewing.

19 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Your points are moot.  Has nothing to do with amount of time a career has, injuries, etc.  Successful organizations built for sustained success have cultures that support such success.  I am astounded at how many people here fail to grasp that.  Go talk to your CEO of your company and ask her or him.

 

Go talk to your CEO, you're a tool. Lol

[BigBuff423]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Giants? 

 

They went 11-5 two seasons ago and lost last year because McAdoo was an in over his head clown and their offensive line is/was a disaster considering who their QB is. 

 

Coughlin was great for them. Towards the end of his career there they were void of talent resulting in three consecutive losing seasons before him being fired. After that the Giants loaded up on talent that offseason and next season made the playoffs.

 

The cowboys didn't make the playoffs because of guys like Dez and Gregory? ?

 

Ridiculous. They would miss mostly because Romo was made of glass and often injured. 

 

Didnt they go 13-3 two years ago? 

 

The Browns? They've routinely blown at drafting. Incredibly bad. 

 

You need both. A coach who can coach and install a good culture while managing the talented players with high profile personalities. McDermott only seems concerned with involving himself in one of those aspects.

 

 

 

Giants: 2013-2015, losing record, and last year went 3-13 with a QB good WRs a talented TE and some Defensive players like Landon Collins

Cowboys: in 8 seasons between 2010-2017 they made the playoffs twice and I didn't say they didn't make the playoffs as you tried to dispel my statement, I said "struggled" to make the playoffs, which given the above info I'd say is accurate. And yes, Dez was part of the cause they struggled. You don't see it yet the Cowboys did what most on this board want the Bills to do: spend high and often on Offensive line and then took a RB in the top 5 and built that Offense while acquiring some good Defensive talent. Yet, they continue to falter. Maybe they won't this year, but they have yet to show real winning over time despite loads of talent on both sides of the ball. To me, this only proves my point, but you have a different perspective or opinion...fair enough, but let's be clear about the argument I make and don't conflate my context with your opinion.

Browns: you say they've been bad at Drafting, but yet their players have been supremely talented, argued by no one over the last five to seven years. The issue is how they develop and use that talent and what they do to create an environment conducive to winning at the expense of the "me first" mentality. 

1 hour ago, Trogdor said:

Beane didn't draft White or Dawkins and Johnson looks like maybe a CB3. Your argument seems to be based around "well they could be good in the future", so how can you possibly get to "pretty good" without any actual results? Why is it all of a sudden that people think a rookie head coach just up and ran the draft last year? Last year was a pretty typical Whaley draft. 

 

And in my original post I gave credit to Sean McD as it was widely reported he was running the Draft. As for Johnson, it's four games in and yet experts far more knowledgeable then either one of us have said T. Johnson has been fantastic thus far. Edmunds has greatly improved from week 1, that's coaching right? Or is it just luck in your eyes? 

 

And no, Whaley didn't truly run the Draft....they were all fired a day or two later. They were advisers, Sean McD ran that Draft....go back and read what was written in the days and weeks after the Draft. But, believe what you'd like. 

[SoTier]

7 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

C'mon guys, this is code for our players suck and we are cleaning up next spring, 100 mill cap space and 10 draft picks baby !!

 

just had to get the non culturalists out.

 

 

 

It's amazing how virtually all those "non culturists" were most of the best players on the team -- Stephon Gilmore, Marquise Goodwin, Robert Woods, Sammy Watkins, Marcel Dareus, Cordy Glenn, even Tyrod Taylor, etc -- and the most of the "pro culturalists" that McDermott has brought in are busts, career backups, waiver wire/practice squad refugees, and other teams', especially Carolina's, rejects.

 

Keep fantasizing about the juggerNOT that  McDermott and Beane will build with that "100 mill cap space and 10 draft picks".

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

He's clueless. He thinks you can press a cookie cutter called successful culture on organizations. He also named Jordan, Brady, and Bird. Some of the best ever to do what they do which is counter to the point completely.

 

Jordan punched Kerr in the face during practice. But I'm sure that goes right along with whatever culture narrative this clueless oldman is spewing.

 

Go talk to your CEO, you're a tool. Lol

Just proving my point once again.  first, it's clear you have no idea about how successful organizations are run.  Second, you know why I mention guys like Jordan?  because they are the epitome of successful culture.  Talented guys who despite their talent were also the guys who worked the hardest in practice, who made their teammates work hard, held them up to a higher standard.  There's a reason guys like Iverson, also very talented, never won anything.  They did not establish or buy into a culture tuned into success.

 

Just admit you have no clue and move on.  I've put a challenge out there to name me just one successful organization that did not care about their culture. If you're so smart and think it means nothing, name one. 

1 minute ago, SoTier said:

 

It's amazing how virtually all those "non culturists" were most of the best players on the team -- Stephon Gilmore, Marquise Goodwin, Robert Woods, Sammy Watkins, Marcel Dareus, Cordy Glenn, even Tyrod Taylor, etc -- and the most of the "pro culturalists" that McDermott has brought in are busts, career backups, waiver wire/practice squad refugees, and other teams', especially Carolina's, rejects.

 

Keep fantasizing about the juggerNOT that  McDermott and Beane will build with that "100 mill cap space and 10 draft picks".

You think guys like Dareus and Gilmore are fighting the cultures established by their current teams?  You think Gilmore especially tells Belichick he doesn't care about how they do things in New England. 
 

Laughable.

[YoloinOhio]

1 hour ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

You mean the Urban Meyer that routinely has top 5 classes, or the Bill Belichick that has brought in the Dillons, the moss's, the Chad johnsons, Aaron Hernandez's, Revis's, Coleman's, and Gordon's. 

 

Countless others. I don't know why this is becoming a talent vs character thing, I'm more concerned about schemes. 

 

Culture is for losers. But ramble on about organizations and ****. I feel like I'm back in college in a business administration class with people throwing out terms and theories they know nothing about.

Where is talent vs character mentioned? It’s culture and strategy in building a roster. None of these coaches including McD never said they don’t value talent. They said they don’t ONLY value talent in a vacuum. 

 

The character point continually goes over everyone’s head no matter how many times it is clarified that he wants FOOTBALL CHARACTER. He has drafted, retained and signed players who have arrests, baggage and suspensions.

Edited October 4, 2018 by YoloinOhio

[SoTier]

4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

 

Just admit you have no clue and move on.  I've put a challenge out there to name me just one successful organization that did not care about their culture. If you're so smart and think it means nothing, name one. 

You think guys like Dareus and Gilmore are fighting the cultures established by their current teams?  You think Gilmore especially tells Belichick he doesn't care about how they do things in New England. 
 

Laughable.

 

What's laughable is your defense of McDermott's incompetence as a team builder by claiming he's building a "culture".  The only "culture" that McDermott is "building" is a losing one.

[BillnutinHouston]

22 hours ago, dpberr said:

This quote is troublesome. Unit coaches should be teaching, communicating, and making sure things get accomplished.

 

They have to be more than culture change agents. Juan Castillo may be a great "culture" guy but he's a terrible coach managing an underperforming unit and it concerns me that accountability isn't a priority.

 

 

 

What part of McD's quote removes accountability from the culture equation?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 hour ago, HeHateMe said:

Team needs more good practicing Christians..

 

Because this has anything to do with what he's talking about.

 

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

What's laughable is your defense of McDermott's incompetence as a team builder by claiming he's building a "culture".  The only "culture" that McDermott is "building" is a losing one.

Another blowhard who can't answer the question posed.  Name me one successful organization, one organization with sustained success, that does not have a successful culture established.  I know you won't even try; you'll just start yelling again about how the Pegulas are only interested in getting money and the rest of your usual blather.

 

And I have said more time than I can count now that McD and Beane have a plan, and how well they execute that plan will determine their fate.  Part of that plan will be to use the picks and cap space they have to get good players. 

[teef]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

Another blowhard who can't answer the question posed.  Name me one successful organization, one organization with sustained success, that does not have a successful culture established.  I know you won't even try; you'll just start yelling again about how the Pegulas are only interested in getting money and the rest of your usual blather.

 

And I have said more time than I can count now that McD and Beane have a plan, and how well they execute that plan will determine their fate.  Part of that plan will be to use the picks and cap space they have to get good players. 

some people are acting like this year is the final product this staff is shooting for.  i think if we all take a step back and look, it's obvious that it's not.  again, i'm not saying that everything will work out, but this staff needs to be given this offseason to put their team together.  i get the disappointment of a down year, but there are many that are just taking this as an opportunity to join in one large pity party.