Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 2, 2018 Posted October 2, 2018 This amazes me. Credit where due: it's linked by 26Cornerblitz in the All-22 Coaches Film Reviews thread, but I'm bringing it up here to try for a wider read. The high level summary: 1) 10-year NFL journeyman Dan Orlovsky critiques an Allen play as, essentially, Allen missing an obvious blitz read, Allen needs to improve. 2) Along comes 3x Superbowl QB, MVP winner, all pro Kurt Warner and says "wait a minute, I don't see it that way" If you can watch Orlovsky's very convincing chalkboard critique and then read Kurt Warner's rebuttals and NOT get the flick on just how challenging it can be to diagnose a blitz pre-snap and know where to look first in the NFL, well, I just don't know what to say to you. 3
Fadingpain Posted October 2, 2018 Posted October 2, 2018 (edited) I thought it was pretty straight forward; the key is Allen should have known Shady would take a defender with him to the right side of the ball. That leaves a mis-match on the left side of the ball, and that becomes the weak link in the protection. Which is exactly how the play unfolded. But Allen doesn't look left at the most vulnerable area, b/c he's not reading the defense or thinking through the game of football on this level. This is nothing new for him and one of his longstanding weaknesses. This is what Tom Brady called, a few years ago, a "wasted play" meaning the play was over before it began because the QB didn't see what was about to happen. The good/great QBs like Brady don't have wasted plays, or hardly any, b/c they have a very high football IQ and "see" what's going to happen pre-snap and adjust accordingly. Remember, the QB has a huge advantage in that he knows what the offense is going to do and he has the ability to alter the play before it happens! The D is just reacting to what unfolds in front of them. Edited October 2, 2018 by Fadingpain 1
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted October 2, 2018 Posted October 2, 2018 13 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: This amazes me. Credit where due: it's linked by 26Cornerblitz in the All-22 Coaches Film Reviews thread, but I'm bringing it up here to try for a wider read. The high level summary: 1) 10-year NFL journeyman Dan Orlovsky critiques an Allen play as, essentially, Allen missing an obvious blitz read, Allen needs to improve. 2) Along comes 3x Superbowl QB, MVP winner, all pro Kurt Warner and says "wait a minute, I don't see it that way" If you can watch Orlovsky's very convincing chalkboard critique and then read Kurt Warner's rebuttals and NOT get the flick on just how challenging it can be to diagnose a blitz pre-snap and know where to look first in the NFL, well, I just don't know what to say to you. The seventh guy not in the initial qb view frame vwas the sacker
PlayoffsPlease Posted October 2, 2018 Posted October 2, 2018 1 minute ago, Fadingpain said: I thought it was pretty straight forward; the key is Allen should have known Shady would take a defender with him to the right side of the ball. That leaves a mis-match on the left side of the ball, and that becomes the weak link in the protection. Which is exactly how the play unfolded. But Allen doesn't look left at the most vulnerable area, b/c he's not reading the defense or thinking through the game of football on this level. This is nothing new for him and one of his longstanding weaknesses. This is what Tom Brady called, a few years ago, a "wasted play" meaning the play was over before it began because the QB didn't see what was about to happen. The good/great QBs like Brady don't have wasted plays, are hardly any, b/c they have a very high football IQ and "see" what's going to happen pre-snap and adjust accordingly. Remember, the QB has a huge advantage in that he knows what the offense is going to do and he has the ability to alter the play before it happens! The D is just reacting to what unfolds in front of them. After 3 starts "at this level" its a bit foolish to assert "long standing weakness". In the very same sentence. Please refrain from pretending you understand his weaknesses from college and how you can project them on to the NFL. You will only look more foolish. 8 1
Fadingpain Posted October 2, 2018 Posted October 2, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said: After 3 starts "at this level" its a bit foolish to assert "long standing weakness". In the very same sentence. Please refrain from pretending you understand his weaknesses from college and how you can project them on to the NFL. You will only look more foolish. What I meant was that not reading plays at the line is what Allen has been doing all along, and it's why scouts call him "raw" and "not ready" and "further behind other QBs in the draft class." Of course you can see his college weaknesses and project them on the NFL He doesn't process the game anywhere near the same level as, for example, Josh Rosen or Darnold, and it's why he was labeled a project, most scouts had him as a 3rd round project, and why I was pissed off the moment they announced we took Allen. You can play the "it's early" game now, and for a while to come. Eventually you'll see he doesn't have it. Hang in there. Edited October 2, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan inappropriate language
26CornerBlitz Posted October 2, 2018 Posted October 2, 2018 5 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said: After 3 starts "at this level" its a bit foolish to assert "long standing weakness". In the very same sentence. Please refrain from pretending you understand his weaknesses from college and how you can project them on to the NFL. You will only look more foolish. Not when the issue dates back to Wyoming as a well known challenge that he needed to overcome with the speed and complexity of NFL defenses only making things more difficult.
oldmanfan Posted October 2, 2018 Posted October 2, 2018 14 minutes ago, Fadingpain said: What I meant was that not reading plays at the line is what Allen has been doing all along, and it's why scouts call him "raw" and "not ready" and "further behind other QBs in the draft class." Of course you can see his college weaknesses and project them on the NFL! He doesn't process the game anywhere near the same level as, for example, Josh Rosen or Darnold, and it's why he was labeled a project, most scouts had him as a 3rd round project, and why I was pissed off the moment they announced we took Allen. You can play the "it's early" game now, and for a while to come. Eventually you'll see he doesn't have it. Hang in there. Most scouts did not say that. You keep repeating this as gospel and it's not. You say it just to support your negativity. The kid needs to learn. My bet is he will. 8
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 2, 2018 Author Posted October 2, 2018 12 minutes ago, Fadingpain said: I thought it was pretty straight forward; the key is Allen should have known Shady would take a defender with him to the right side of the ball. Did you actually read Kurt Warner's stuff? Actually, let me rephrase that: you did not read Kurt Warner's responses. What is evident to you and Dan Orlovsky is apparently not so obvious and evident to Kurt Warner. That is the point. 3 1
Buffalo716 Posted October 2, 2018 Posted October 2, 2018 18 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Did you actually read Kurt Warner's stuff? Actually, let me rephrase that: you did not read Kurt Warner's responses. What is evident to you and Dan Orlovsky is apparently not so obvious and evident to Kurt Warner. That is the point. Maybe because I’m computer illiterate or I don’t have a Twitter but... can you please highlight Warner’s rebuttable or tell me what he said... i only see this in the tweet.. It’s just something that’s easily fixable. Understanding what you have called on offense-what’s the problem of the defense-what’s your plan to handle. Allen has done some nice stuff-GOT TO SEE GROWTH IN THIS AREA! #NFLGamePass #NFLPartner @TheBillsMafia @SteveTasker89 #BillsMafia
26CornerBlitz Posted October 2, 2018 Posted October 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Maybe because I’m computer illiterate or I don’t have a Twitter but... can you please highlight Warner’s rebuttable or tell me what he said... i only see this in the tweet.. It’s just something that’s easily fixable. Understanding what you have called on offense-what’s the problem of the defense-what’s your plan to handle. Allen has done some nice stuff-GOT TO SEE GROWTH IN THIS AREA! #NFLGamePass #NFLPartner @TheBillsMafia @SteveTasker89 #BillsMafia
vincec Posted October 2, 2018 Posted October 2, 2018 22 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Not when the issue dates back to Wyoming as a well known challenge that he needed to overcome with the speed and complexity of NFL defenses only making things more difficult. I think you're being harsh. I'm amazed that anyone thinks the Bills can take a QB that everyone agreed needed time to develop, start him right away with the worst offensive personnel in the NFL, and think he isn't going to struggle. At this point I would say it will be a feather in Allen's cap if he can survive this season without getting hurt, having his confidence crushed or developing bad habits. 2 1
26CornerBlitz Posted October 2, 2018 Posted October 2, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, vincec said: I think you're being harsh. I'm amazed that anyone thinks the Bills can take a QB that everyone agreed needed time to develop, start him right away with the worst offensive personnel in the NFL, and think he isn't going to struggle. At this point I would say it will be a feather in Allen's cap if he can survive this season without getting hurt, having his confidence crushed or developing bad habits. What's harsh about it? It is what it is. The plan was to allow him the time to sit and learn, but the Bills only have themselves to blame for this predicament by not having a more established veteran QB on hand and also not investing more resources in the OL and receiving corps. They instead went defense heavy in UFA and the draft while foolishly believing in Nathan Peterman as a viable caretaker bridge option. Edited October 3, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 2, 2018 Author Posted October 2, 2018 10 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Maybe because I’m computer illiterate or I don’t have a Twitter but... can you please highlight Warner’s rebuttable or tell me what he said... i only see this in the tweet.. It’s just something that’s easily fixable. Understanding what you have called on offense-what’s the problem of the defense-what’s your plan to handle. Allen has done some nice stuff-GOT TO SEE GROWTH IN THIS AREA! #NFLGamePass #NFLPartner @TheBillsMafia @SteveTasker89 #BillsMafia You might try pasting this into your browser bar: pic.twitter.com/3rtP2RnMAu It should bring up a window with the above (Orlovsky's tweet), a graphic you can click on to get his analysis, and then all the back-and-forth replies from Warner I don't have a twitter account myself and I can see it all 1
vincec Posted October 2, 2018 Posted October 2, 2018 Just now, 26CornerBlitz said: What's harsh about it? It is what it is. The plan was to allow him the time to sit and learn, but the Bills only have themselves to blame for this predicament by not having a more established veteran QB on hand and investing more resources in the OL and receiving corps. They instead went defense heavy in UFA and the draft while foolishly believing in Nathan Peterman as a viable caretaker bridge option. I agree. What I think is harsh is attributing poor play by him to age old flaws in his game. I think a lot of it comes from a lack of experience against pro defenses, poor supporting personnel and quite possibly bad coaching. I'm not saying that he doesn't have things to work on, but they would be much less prominent if he had a better situation. 2
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 2, 2018 Posted October 2, 2018 But isn’t the common thought that it’s easier than ever to play qb? With the rules, lack of contact a defense can put on a qb, and a lot of similar college schemes, the league has never been more passer friendly. Just now, vincec said: I agree. What I think is harsh is attributing poor play by him to age old flaws in his game. I think a lot of it comes from a lack of experience against pro defenses, poor supporting personnel and quite possibly bad coaching. I'm not saying that he doesn't have things to work on, but they would be much less prominent if he had a better situation. But that’s on the people who just drafted him. They have made some terrible personnel moves.
26CornerBlitz Posted October 2, 2018 Posted October 2, 2018 1 minute ago, vincec said: I agree. What I think is harsh is attributing poor play by him to age old flaws in his game. I think a lot of it comes from a lack of experience against pro defenses, poor supporting personnel and quite possibly bad coaching. I'm not saying that he doesn't have things to work on, but they would be much less prominent if he had a better situation. We are pretty much saying the same thing.
goldenboy81 Posted October 3, 2018 Posted October 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, jr1 said: Hahahaha 1 of the funniest things ive ever seen on here 1
atlbillsfan1975 Posted October 3, 2018 Posted October 3, 2018 32 minutes ago, Fadingpain said: What I meant was that not reading plays at the line is what Allen has been doing all along, and it's why scouts call him "raw" and "not ready" and "further behind other QBs in the draft class." Of course you can see his college weaknesses and project them on the NFL He doesn't process the game anywhere near the same level as, for example, Josh Rosen or Darnold, and it's why he was labeled a project, most scouts had him as a 3rd round project, and why I was pissed off the moment they announced we took Allen. You can play the "it's early" game now, and for a while to come. Eventually you'll see he doesn't have it. Hang in there. It was his second start in the NFL. Start number two. Please go watch Jim Kellys first year. Watch Wentz last year. Every rookie has good ones and bad ones. It’s part of the learning curve. 1
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