Owners with Conservative/Defensive Minded Coaches have some SOUL SEARCHING to do.

[BobChalmers]

6 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Who do we like off this list?  

 

Well be able to afford 4-5 of these guys, depending on what we do with Shady, assuming we move on from Benjamin and Clay.  

 

Everyone wants to look at Mahomes in his second year.  Well.. these are guys, along with a potential elite OL or WR in the draft, that Allen could be playing with next year. 

 

*Some are no longer available but it gives you an idea. 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2783459-an-early-look-at-the-2019-nfl-free-agent-class.amp.html

 

5. Vontae Davis, Buffalo Bills

 

LOLOLOL

[CDogg20]

29 minutes ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

Eagles invested heavily in Trading up for Carson Wentz.  Spent that off season building and Offensive Coaching Room...Wentz now thriving.

 

Los Angeles Rams invested 1st Overall Pick in Jared Goff.  Shortly after fired their Defensive Minded Head Coach (Jeff Fisher).  Brought in young Offensive guy in Sean McVay...Goff now thriving.

 

Chicago Bears invested heavily in trading up for Mitch Trubisky.  Shortly after fired their Defensive Minded Head Coach (John Fox).  Brought in Offensive Guy in Matt Nagy...Trubisky now thriving.

 

 

Buffalo Bills and New York Jets invested heavily in trading up for Josh Allen and Sam Darnold.  And they will do what with their DEFENSIVE MINDED HEAD COACHES after their Young QBs struggle in 2018???

I was actually thinking about this last night. I like McD but I do think he’ll get the boot...not this year but next if he doesn’t turn it around. 

[Nihilarian]

36 minutes ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

Eagles invested heavily in Trading up for Carson Wentz.  Spent that off season building and Offensive Coaching Room...Wentz now thriving.

 

Los Angeles Rams invested 1st Overall Pick in Jared Goff.  Shortly after fired their Defensive Minded Head Coach (Jeff Fisher).  Brought in young Offensive guy in Sean McVay...Goff now thriving.

 

Chicago Bears invested heavily in trading up for Mitch Trubisky.  Shortly after fired their Defensive Minded Head Coach (John Fox).  Brought in Offensive Guy in Matt Nagy...Trubisky now thriving.

 

 

Buffalo Bills and New York Jets invested heavily in trading up for Josh Allen and Sam Darnold.  And they will do what with their DEFENSIVE MINDED HEAD COACHES after their Young QBs struggle in 2018???

 

This is where the current trend is going in the NFL in terms of head coaches and they are kicking some arse. McVay is a genius! Also forgot to mention that new offensive minded HC in SF. And the NY Giants went that way too. So did Indy with Frank Reich. 

 

In 2014 We all saw that the #4 overall defense won't win much if you don't have an offense that moves the ball and can score. The game that killed Buffalo that year was at Oakland where they lost by 2 points and the offensive line really let the Bills down with 13 rushing attempts for 13 yards. This was against the 30th ranked Raiders defense too. Bottom line is a great defense doesn't always get you into the playoffs. 

 

While I really like McD I think he screwed himself by not drafting some quality O linemen and WRs. It wouldn't shock me to see these new owners look for a better mentor for their rookie QB. 

Edited October 2, 2018 by Nihilarian

[Alphadawg7]

31 minutes ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

Eagles invested heavily in Trading up for Carson Wentz.  Spent that off season building and Offensive Coaching Room...Wentz now thriving.

 

Los Angeles Rams invested 1st Overall Pick in Jared Goff.  Shortly after fired their Defensive Minded Head Coach (Jeff Fisher).  Brought in young Offensive guy in Sean McVay...Goff now thriving.

 

Chicago Bears invested heavily in trading up for Mitch Trubisky.  Shortly after fired their Defensive Minded Head Coach (John Fox).  Brought in Offensive Guy in Matt Nagy...Trubisky now thriving.

 

 

Buffalo Bills and New York Jets invested heavily in trading up for Josh Allen and Sam Darnold.  And they will do what with their DEFENSIVE MINDED HEAD COACHES after their Young QBs struggle in 2018???

 

Man, this is a very short sighted post, no offense.

 

1.  We cant rebuild an entire roster in one season.  We got out QB of the Offense and Defense this draft, this next off season is going to be heavy offense in FA and Draft no doubt.

2.  Rams - McVay thing drives me crazy...YES, he is a great young coach, I very much like him.  But people gotta get a reality check on this and when people give ALL credit to McVay shows me they dont know much about the Rams.  The season before McVay the OL was one of the worst in the NFL, Gurley stunk even cuz of it, and the WRs were almost as bad as ours.  People need to realize the Rams completely rebuilt the OL and overhauled the entire WR group last year, and that was a MAJOR reason for the offensive turn around, not just McVay.  

3.  Trubisky is thriving?  Do people even watch the NFL anymore of just look at the last game only?  He was terrible last year and every game this seasons until this ONE game.  They were starting to wonder if he was a bust the week before this.  And now after one game where is WR's were mostly wide open against the worst D in the NFL he is suddenly "Thriving".  Not to mention, Bears also did a total over haul of the entire WR group there this offseason to give the kid some weapons.  Last year Trubisky threw just SEVEN TD's with a WR group almost as bad as ours.  

 

The ONLY common theme here is that these young QB's all SUCKED when they had one of the worst collection of offensive talent on the field.  Once they got real WR's and some OL protection, they took steps forward.  McD is FINE as a HC, its the LACK of TALENT on the field, same as it was for Goff and Trubisky.

[Haze_21]

1 game against a terrible pass d does not give trubisky thriving status.

[mrags]

37 minutes ago, jahnyc said:

The Daboll hire was critical to get right.  It will be interesting to see if he can work well with Allen and help his development.

Unfortunately Daboll hasn’t ever done anything worth bragging about. Our chances with him are slim. 

[BrooklynBills]

11 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

I think the bigger thing those franchises did is they spent a ton of money on offense in the QB's sophomore seasons. Presumably that is our plan for next year too. But it all depends on Allen developing.

 

Can't just think throwing some money and high draft picks around next year is solely going to be enough. 

 

Philly went out and hired Reich and DeFillipo the year that they drafted Wentz to help develop him, giving them 3 experienced QB coaches (including Pederson) working with Wentz his first two years.

 

LA Rams hired McVay, but also Matt LaFleur and Greg Olson as OC and QB coach, two guys with a proven track record getting results out of QBs.

 

(Sensing a theme here!)

 

Chicago hired Nagy(QB coach) and Mark Helfrich(former Oregon OC/QB coach/HC)

 

So far we have a former TEs coach as the OC who has zero track record of developing QBs and a lifelong WR coach (who was getting fired in KC BTW) as our QB coach who has no track record of developing QBs.

 

Coaching matters and our offensive staff has no one here with a track record of even WORKING WITH QBs, let alone developing one. 

[Nihilarian]

Right now the KC Chiefs have one of the best young QBs in the league and they built an offense around him. Solid offensive line, many offensive weapons WR, TE, RB. The Chiefs are #1 in scoring on offense and #28 in yards allowed on defense. They are also 4-0 with 14 passing TDs. They spent 16 mill per on a WR they don't even use. 

 

Looking at that Green Bay game with 7 sacks on Allen, 18 for the season this kid might not survive this year to become a Mahomes. 

[HappyDays]

6 minutes ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

 

True the Bears did bring in Allen Robinson.  How much they use him is debatable.  (I know being hai frustrated fantasy owner)

 

but Los Angeles...totally.  Woods, Cooks.  They loaded up

 

Here's the free agent list for next year:

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/wide-receiver/

 

My targets would be:

Golden Tate

Randall Cobb

John Brown

Kevin White (kick the tires for cheap)

Mike Wallace

Quincy Enuwa

 

Of course knowing this regime we'll go for Devin Funchess but we have to do something.

[uticaclub]

26 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Who do we like off this list?  

 

Well be able to afford 4-5 of these guys, depending on what we do with Shady, assuming we move on from Benjamin and Clay.  

 

Everyone wants to look at Mahomes in his second year.  Well.. these are guys, along with a potential elite OL or WR in the draft, that Allen could be playing with next year. 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2783459-an-early-look-at-the-2019-nfl-free-agent-class.amp.html

Affording and getting players to come to Buffalo are two different things. Elite talent won't want to play for a last place team with no QB, so we'll be left over paying for mediocre talent

[Mat68]

31 minutes ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

 

True the Bears did bring in Allen Robinson.  How much they use him is debatable.  (I know being hai frustrated fantasy owner)

 

but Los Angeles...totally.  Woods, Cooks.  They loaded up

They spend almost a 100 mil on offense in the off season.  Allen, Burton, Gabriel, Olineman.  They were also in the mix for Watkins.

Edited October 2, 2018 by Mat68

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

13 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

 

This is where the current trend is going in the NFL in terms of head coaches and they are kicking some arse. McVay is a genius! Also forgot to mention that new offensive minded HC in SF. And the NY Giants went that way too. So did Indy with Frank Reich. 

 

In 2014 We all saw that the #4 overall defense won't win much if you don't have an offense that moves the ball and can score. The game that killed Buffalo that year was at Oakland where they lost by 2 points and the offensive line really let the Bills down with 13 rushing attempts for 13 yards. This was against the 30th ranked Raiders defense too. Bottom line is a great defense doesn't always get you into the playoffs. 

 

While I really like McD I think he screwed himself by not drafting some quality O linemen and WRs. It wouldn't shock me to see these new owners look for a better mentor for their rookie QB. 

 

Talent plays a role too. Losing Dareus against the Raiders was a big deal. And what about guys like Bryce Brown fumbling away a TD against KC in week 10? 

 

Cherry picking one thing from that Raiders game doesn't really prove the point of this thread IMO. 

18 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Man, this is a very short sighted post, no offense.

 

1.  We cant rebuild an entire roster in one season.  We got out QB of the Offense and Defense this draft, this next off season is going to be heavy offense in FA and Draft no doubt.

2.  Rams - McVay thing drives me crazy...YES, he is a great young coach, I very much like him.  But people gotta get a reality check on this and when people give ALL credit to McVay shows me they dont know much about the Rams.  The season before McVay the OL was one of the worst in the NFL, Gurley stunk even cuz of it, and the WRs were almost as bad as ours.  People need to realize the Rams completely rebuilt the OL and overhauled the entire WR group last year, and that was a MAJOR reason for the offensive turn around, not just McVay.  

3.  Trubisky is thriving?  Do people even watch the NFL anymore of just look at the last game only?  He was terrible last year and every game this seasons until this ONE game.  They were starting to wonder if he was a bust the week before this.  And now after one game where is WR's were mostly wide open against the worst D in the NFL he is suddenly "Thriving".  Not to mention, Bears also did a total over haul of the entire WR group there this offseason to give the kid some weapons.  Last year Trubisky threw just SEVEN TD's with a WR group almost as bad as ours.  

 

The ONLY common theme here is that these young QB's all SUCKED when they had one of the worst collection of offensive talent on the field.  Once they got real WR's and some OL protection, they took steps forward.  McD is FINE as a HC, its the LACK of TALENT on the field, same as it was for Goff and Trubisky.

 

Everything about this post is spot on. Well done!

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 hour ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

Eagles invested heavily in Trading up for Carson Wentz.  Spent that off season building and Offensive Coaching Room...Wentz now thriving.

 

Los Angeles Rams invested 1st Overall Pick in Jared Goff.  Shortly after fired their Defensive Minded Head Coach (Jeff Fisher).  Brought in young Offensive guy in Sean McVay...Goff now thriving.

 

Chicago Bears invested heavily in trading up for Mitch Trubisky.  Shortly after fired their Defensive Minded Head Coach (John Fox).  Brought in Offensive Guy in Matt Nagy...Trubisky now thriving.

 

 

Buffalo Bills and New York Jets invested heavily in trading up for Josh Allen and Sam Darnold.  And they will do what with their DEFENSIVE MINDED HEAD COACHES after their Young QBs struggle in 2018???

I've said all along I wasn't sold on this coaching staff being able to teach Allen. Not only is McD defensive minded but:

 

Daboll has zero experience grooming a young QB

 

Culley hadn't been a QB coach since the 80s.

 

And hey, special bonus Allen gets to play behind a Juan Castillo line. 

 

I do like McD and think he can be a heck of a good coach, just not sold that he's going to be the guy to get the most out of Josh Allen.

Edited October 2, 2018 by No Place To Hyde

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

24 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Man, this is a very short sighted post, no offense.

 

1.  We cant rebuild an entire roster in one season.  We got out QB of the Offense and Defense this draft, this next off season is going to be heavy offense in FA and Draft no doubt.

2.  Rams - McVay thing drives me crazy...YES, he is a great young coach, I very much like him.  But people gotta get a reality check on this and when people give ALL credit to McVay shows me they dont know much about the Rams.  The season before McVay the OL was one of the worst in the NFL, Gurley stunk even cuz of it, and the WRs were almost as bad as ours.  People need to realize the Rams completely rebuilt the OL and overhauled the entire WR group last year, and that was a MAJOR reason for the offensive turn around, not just McVay.  

3.  Trubisky is thriving?  Do people even watch the NFL anymore of just look at the last game only?  He was terrible last year and every game this seasons until this ONE game.  They were starting to wonder if he was a bust the week before this.  And now after one game where is WR's were mostly wide open against the worst D in the NFL he is suddenly "Thriving".  Not to mention, Bears also did a total over haul of the entire WR group there this offseason to give the kid some weapons.  Last year Trubisky threw just SEVEN TD's with a WR group almost as bad as ours.  

 

The ONLY common theme here is that these young QB's all SUCKED when they had one of the worst collection of offensive talent on the field.  Once they got real WR's and some OL protection, they took steps forward.  McD is FINE as a HC, its the LACK of TALENT on the field, same as it was for Goff and Trubisky.

 

No offense taken!

 

but I do wonder you say both Chicago and LA overhauled on Offense.  But wasn’t that mostly AFTER they hired Offensive Head Coaches?

 

so it was those Offensive Head Coaches who were possibly the driving factors in getting those organizations to focus on Offense in the Off Season?  And because they were offensive minded...they might have a better idea on scouting the potential offensive talent over a defensive coach?

 

 

also you question Trubisky is thriving in your 2.) point.  But at the end of it you admit he has more TD passes in 4 games in 2018 then he did in 12 games of 2017.  I would call that thriving.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Boy let me tell you, I'm sold! Fire everyone!

 

 

[Rocky Landing]

I don't mind a defensive-minded HC. It's the crappy OC that we need to look at. 

 

I was disappointed when Daboll took his foot of the gas in the second half of the Vikes game. But, I couldn't argue with the results. But, the offensive play calling at Lambeau was terrible.

 

If someone is in disagreement with that statement, I would like to know the reasoning. I'm completely confused by the whole thing, really. The difference in play-calling between the first half of the Vikings game and the entirety of the Packers game is bizarre to me. The Vikings game was marked by well-designed plays that used the whole field, played to Allen's strengths, and took away Minnesota's defensive scheme in the first drive. Versus the Packers, there was barely a well executed play to be had. What the hell???

[SCBills]

29 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

They spend almost a 100 mil on offense in the off season.  Allen, Burton, Gabriel, Olineman.  They were also in the mix for Watkins.

 

Sounds very similar to what I imagine our plans for 2019 are. 

 

Sign a couple legit #2 WRs and go after the top C and top RT in FA.   Then potentially draft an elite WR in the 1st Round. 

 

All of a sudden Allen is behind an OL consisting of Dawkins, a top of the line C and top of the line RT while throwing to say.. Golden Tate, Donte Moncrief and N’Keal Harry. 

[Nihilarian]

11 minutes ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

 

Talent plays a role too. Losing Dareus against the Raiders was a big deal. And what about guys like Bryce Brown fumbling away a TD against KC in week 10? 

 

Cherry picking one thing from that Raiders game doesn't really prove the point of this thread IMO. 

I wasn't attempting to prove the point of this thread. Losing Dareus for that game wasn't the cause for the loss as no Raider RB had 100 yard rushing and Carr went 17 of 34 for 214, 2 TDs. The defense didn't lose that game as in my view the Bills offense lost it. 

 

What I was attempting to convey was that the Bills offensive line and run game was so bad that they only got 13 rush yards on 13 carries. This was against a 3-12 Raiders team that was 32nd on defense in points allowed. This was with Fred Jackson, CJ Spiller, Robert Woods, Sammy Watkins. 

 

I can recall both Spiller and Jackson getting tackled in the backfield as soon as they received the hand off. Hence the 13 rushes for 13 yards. Which is ridiculously bad. 

 

The Bills drives that day went TD, INT, PUNT, PUNT, PUNT, PUNT, PUNT, FG, PUNT, PUNT, TD, PUNT, INT, TD. It was all Kyle Orton on offense for Buffalo. Had the Bills any semblance of a run game that day the defense wouldn't have been on the field as much and should have easily beaten that 2-12 Raiders team.

 

The bigger point here is that the Bills had a #4 overall defense and no playoffs. So McD wants to build a top defense while overlooking the supporting cast for his rookie QB, and because of that fact the rookie QB might not even survive this season. 

[Formerly Allan in MD]

1 hour ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

 

Kyle Shanahan?  Was that closest we got to a young Offensive mind?  That was what before Gailey or Marrone was hired?

Huh?

[Jerome007]

1 hour ago, H2o said:

I think McDermott and Beane have a longer leash than previous regimes because of what they did last year. I believe the Pegs give them at least a 3rd year, if not even a 4th to do what they want to do first, unless 2019 is a complete disaster. 

1 hour ago, I am the egg man said:

"1 Trend in NFL does not bode well for Coach McDermott".....

 

.....yeah, getting blown out badly by opposing teams too regularly.

 

I fully agree with that first quote. But the the 2nd is a real consideration. Losing is one thing. Getting blow out too often is quite another, especially being a defensive minded, fairly conservative coach! Otherwise, McD was a good part of ending the drought, next year he and Beane can made quite the impact and make their bed, for their and the team's benefits or downfall. Fans are sooooooooo impatient. Unless this season is blowout galore, they are sure to be back in 2019

Edited October 2, 2018 by Jerome007