Owners with Conservative/Defensive Minded Coaches have some SOUL SEARCHING to do.

[Billsfan1972]

9 hours ago, GreggTX said:

I think this whole 'death of the defenses' thing is overblown. The rate of scoring in the NFL has actually made TD's seem a bit less exciting except for the Bills. They need to bring back the bump and run to save the game IMO. It's just not as fun to watch as it was when I was young. The challenge is gone with teams regularly scoring 40 and even 50 points in a single game. Yawn...

Wake me when the Bills start doing that.......  A 41 point explosion vs. the Jets and all is well......

 

What is not exciting is 3 & outs.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

On 10/2/2018 at 2:53 PM, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

Eagles invested heavily in Trading up for Carson Wentz.  Spent that off season building and Offensive Coaching Room...Wentz now thriving.

 

Los Angeles Rams invested 1st Overall Pick in Jared Goff.  Shortly after fired their Defensive Minded Head Coach (Jeff Fisher).  Brought in young Offensive guy in Sean McVay...Goff now thriving.

 

Chicago Bears invested heavily in trading up for Mitch Trubisky.  Shortly after fired their Defensive Minded Head Coach (John Fox).  Brought in Offensive Guy in Matt Nagy...Trubisky now thriving.

 

 

Buffalo Bills and New York Jets invested heavily in trading up for Josh Allen and Sam Darnold.  And they will do what with their DEFENSIVE MINDED HEAD COACHES after their Young QBs struggle in 2018???

 

Labels are dumb. The Game plan vs jets was Anything but ‘defensive minded’ 

 

by this arbitrary convention : 

 

- Marrone & Gase are ‘offensive minded’  therefore good 

 

- Belichick & Tomlin are  ‘Defensive minded’ therefore bad 

 

 

 

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

18 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

There have been plenty of posts on this board demanding McDermott be fired and CLEARLY stating, as a primary reason, what he has done with a "playoff" team. If you choose to believe those posts were never written, feel free. Leaving that aside, you say, even if it were true, McDermott should be judged more harshly because of the nature of the offense and more blowouts? Seriously? The coach should be fired because his 29th or 30th ranked offense from last year (that managed a grand 3 points in the playoff loss) is worse in a rebuilding year, playing, to date, the 3rd hardest schedule (DVOA of opponents)? Yet, a coach with Super Bowl winning talent on his team, whose offense has dropped from 7th to 19th, whose defense dropped from 4th to 23rd, whose team has been embarrassed on the field, and whose record, in a weak division and playing the 21st hardest schedule, is one win better than the rebuilding Bills shouldn't be judged as harshly? 

 

Let me be clear. I think it is absolutely asinine to think either one should be fired. At least I'm consistent.

 

There you go fabricating things again. I never said the coach should be fired, just that he should be judged more harshly than Pedersen because he hasn't shown as much. I think he will be fired either during next season or after, but I sure hope I'm wrong.

[billsfan1959]

6 minutes ago, Chemical said:

 

There you go fabricating things again. I never said the coach should be fired, just that he should be judged more harshly than Pedersen because he hasn't shown as much. I think he will be fired either during next season or after, but I sure hope I'm wrong.

My original post, and subsequent explanations to you, addressed those that wanted McDermott fired and listed, as a primary or secondary reason, what he had done this year with what was, last year, a playoff team. What is so difficult for you to understand about that? Or is it that you have to keep finding semantic issues to dwell on so you don't have to address anything substantively?

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

30 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

My original post, and subsequent explanations to you, addressed those that wanted McDermott fired and listed, as a primary or secondary reason, what he had done this year with what was, last year, a playoff team. What is so difficult for you to understand about that? Or is it that you have to keep finding semantic issues to dwell on so you don't have to address anything substantively?

 

I attempted to address your straw-man argument in my first reply. There is absolutely no comparison between Pedersen and McDermott when it comes to body of work, so you had to invent a stance that says the DIFFERENCE between last year and this year is the main reason anyone would want McDermott fired.

 

Even if that were the case, McDermott's results have been worse both last year and this year.

[billsfan1959]

9 minutes ago, Chemical said:

 

I attempted to address your straw-man argument in my first reply. There is absolutely no comparison between Pedersen and McDermott when it comes to body of work, so you had to invent a stance that says the DIFFERENCE between last year and this year is the main reason anyone would want McDermott fired.

 

Even if that were the case, McDermott's results have been worse both last year and this year.

I think your dislike for McDermott clouds what little judgement you have. I could go on with this debate; however, something tells me that eventually I am just going to roll my eyes and say, "there's an hour or so of my life I'll never get back."

 

So, let's just agree to disagree. Cheers.

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

5 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

I think your dislike for McDermott clouds what little judgement you have. I could go on with this debate; however, something tells me that eventually I am just going to roll my eyes and say, "there's an hour or so of my life I'll never get back."

 

So, let's just agree to disagree. Cheers.

 

ok, agree to disagree but I don't dislike McDermott. Just thought your argument was extremely weak.

[Green Lightning]

Regardless of KC and LA,  crappy defenses won't make it in the playoffs. 

[row_33]

10 minutes ago, Green Lightning said:

Regardless of KC and LA,  crappy defenses won't make it in the playoffs. 

 

some years it will, but never a repeat performance

 

 

 

 

 

[MJS]

Robert Kraft has some soul searching to do.

[LSHMEAB]

21 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

There have been plenty of posts on this board demanding McDermott be fired and CLEARLY stating, as a primary reason, what he has done with a "playoff" team. If you choose to believe those posts were never written, feel free. Leaving that aside, you say, even if it were true, McDermott should be judged more harshly because of the nature of the offense and more blowouts? Seriously? The coach should be fired because his 29th or 30th ranked offense from last year (that managed a grand 3 points in the playoff loss) is worse in a rebuilding year, playing, to date, the 3rd hardest schedule (DVOA of opponents)? Yet, a coach with Super Bowl winning talent on his team, whose offense has dropped from 7th to 19th, whose defense dropped from 4th to 23rd, whose team has been embarrassed on the field, and whose record, in a weak division and playing the 21st hardest schedule, is one win better than the rebuilding Bills shouldn't be judged as harshly? 

 

Let me be clear. I think it is absolutely asinine to think either one should be fired. At least I'm consistent.

Why don't we call up the Eagles and see if they'd like a chance to remedy their choice of Pederson over McDermott. Straight up swap.

 

You think they'd go for it? 

[MJS]

3 hours ago, Chemical said:

 

There you go fabricating things again. I never said the coach should be fired, just that he should be judged more harshly than Pedersen because he hasn't shown as much. I think he will be fired either during next season or after, but I sure hope I'm wrong.

 

Hasn't shown as much and hasn't had NEARLY as much talent.

 

Plus we got our rookie QB this year. They got theirs two years ago. They should be further along than the Bills just from that.

 

No matter what people feel about McDermott, next year is going to be a very important and telling year, for lots of reasons, reasons that should indicate marked improvement (QB in 2nd year, loads of cap room to spend on free agents, extra draft picks, players more used to offensive and defensive schemes, etc). If we don't see improvement after all of that, you have to start questioning "the process".

[billsfan1959]

1 hour ago, LSHMEAB said:

Why don't we call up the Eagles and see if they'd like a chance to remedy their choice of Pederson over McDermott. Straight up swap.

 

You think they'd go for it? 

They might right now; however, as usual, you missed the entire point. Thanks for playing.

[LSHMEAB]

19 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

They might right now; however, as usual, you missed the entire point. Thanks for playing.

What was the point? You tried to claim that Doug Pederson should receive the same criticism as Sean McDermott.

 

That is patently absurd. 

 

Doug Pederson lead his team to a Superbowl. Sean McDermott's team backed into a WC playoff spot with a horrendous PPG differential.

 

Is the big sweeping point that the situations are different and Sean McDermott can't possibly be judged because of the roster decisions? That's fine. He's probably getting next season to right the ship. If your point is that Doug Pederson and Sean McDermott are on the same coaching plane, I think you should not only take a hiatus from playing, but perhaps at least consider retirement.

[billsfan1959]

2 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

What was the point? You tried to claim that Doug Pederson should receive the same criticism as Sean McDermott.

 

That is patently absurd. 

 

Doug Pederson lead his team to a Superbowl. Sean McDermott's team backed into a WC playoff spot with a horrendous PPG differential.

 

Is the big sweeping point that the situations are different and Sean McDermott can't possibly be judged because of the roster decisions? That's fine. He's probably getting next season to right the ship. If your point is that Doug Pederson and Sean McDermott are on the same coaching plane, I think you should not only take a hiatus from playing, but perhaps at least consider retirement.

Perhaps you should go back to the original post(s) and see if you can figure out the point, all on your own, and to whom I was addressing that point. I would try to explain it to you; however, something tells me it would be a waste of time on someone who wants to fire a coach 1.5 years into a rebuilding process. You have very little ability to see anything regarding the Bills organization, Beane, McDermott, or Allen in an objective light. Case in point: You declared Allen a bust before he got off the stage the night he was drafted and have done nothing but look for anything that confirms what you have already decided. You have done the same with McDermott.

 

Thank God most of the posters on this board take a reasonable approach to all of this - rather than posters like you who inundate everyone else with post after post demanding people to be fired,  or how much Josh Allen sucks, or some other point that lets everyone know your general discontent with everything Bills - and how your happiness in life is somehow dependent upon how a football team performs.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

32 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

What was the point? You tried to claim that Doug Pederson should receive the same criticism as Sean McDermott.

 

That is patently absurd. 

 

Doug Pederson lead his team to a Superbowl. Sean McDermott's team backed into a WC playoff spot with a horrendous PPG differential.

 

Is the big sweeping point that the situations are different and Sean McDermott can't possibly be judged because of the roster decisions? That's fine. He's probably getting next season to right the ship. If your point is that Doug Pederson and Sean McDermott are on the same coaching plane, I think you should not only take a hiatus from playing, but perhaps at least consider retirement.

 

For all Pederson's "genius" and "innovation," his far more talented team has ONE more win than the Bills this year.

That's a fact. You're gonna have to accept it.

 

[LSHMEAB]

13 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

For all Pederson's "genius" and "innovation," his far more talented team has ONE more win than the Bills this year.

That's a fact. You're gonna have to accept it.

 

It would be awesome if the team I like had won a Superbowl THIS CALENDER YEAR. I like winners. It's a character flaw I suppose.

18 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

Perhaps you should go back to the original post(s) and see if you can figure out the point, all on your own, and to whom I was addressing that point. I would try to explain it to you; however, something tells me it would be a waste of time on someone who wants to fire a coach 1.5 years into a rebuilding process. You have very little ability to see anything regarding the Bills organization, Beane, McDermott, or Allen in an objective light. Case in point: You declared Allen a bust before he got off the stage the night he was drafted and have done nothing but look for anything that confirms what you have already decided. You have done the same with McDermott.

 

Thank God most of the posters on this board take a reasonable approach to all of this - rather than posters like you who inundate everyone else with post after post demanding people to be fired,  or how much Josh Allen sucks, or some other point that lets everyone know your general discontent with everything Bills - and how your happiness in life is somehow dependent upon how a football team performs.

I've never demanded McDermott be fired. Perhaps you should do some research before you make sweeping generalizations.

 

I hope he gets another crack at a QB. He's the first HC we've had in many years who finds a way to win close games. I like that.

Edited November 22, 2018 by LSHMEAB

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

5 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

It would be awesome if the team I like had won a Superbowl THIS CALENDER YEAR. I like winners. It's a character flaw I suppose.

 

 

One of many.

 

[LSHMEAB]

2 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

One of many.

 

You excited about spending time with the fam for Thanksgiving? Seems like you're in a good mood.

[Thurman#1]

17 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

They'll be judged after next year and if hey are still losing and the offense looks bad they may both be gone. 

 

I could've sworn this team team tried to rebuild following the 2000, 2005, and 2009 seasons, but I guess I'm wrong, and NOW, after 20 or so years we are finally rebuilding.

 

The problem with the Bills for that 20 year period has been ineptitude leading ineptitude. McBeane have time to get things on the right track, but they don't look much better than any other GM/HC combo we've had throughout that time period to this point. 

 

 

Hey Scott, yeah, after next year the pressure will be on. But as long as we see improvement, they'll very likely get a year after that even if they're still losing.

 

And yeah, after the 2000 season we rebuilt. Didn't work out. They really didn't have a choice with that one as Butler put the team in such serious salary cap jail that they had to do a massive personnel dump. Same with Nix, yes, that was a rebuild too. In neither case did we get a QB to give the team a real chance to build into a powerhouse. Nix did a great job on defense but not having high draft picks hurt badly.

 

But no, Jauron was a reload after 2005, not a rebuild. They thought they could win quickly with him, but turned out to be more seven-win seasons.

 

Yes, ineptitude and bad decisions. And thinking a rebuild was all that was necessary has been a consistent bad decision. What are these?

 

8

3

8

6

9

5

7

7

7

6

4

6

6

6

9

8

7

9

 

Win totals since 2000. And what you see is a team that never got good enough to get into the playoffs except by lucking in last year and never got bad enough to use the draft to get some major impact players, particularly at QB but at the other impact positions either. It's the record of a team reloading and reloading and reloading. Two minor rebuilds, neither deep enough nor painful enough. And in the years they did have a good pick, they picked Mike Williams and Marcell Dareus.

 

Lose one more game in 2010 and we can pick Von Miller instead of Dareus. Two more losses and we are in tiebreakers with Carolina for a shot at Cam Newton.

 

No QB, no gold ring. No rebuild, far lower chance at a QB.

 

As for your opinion that McDermott and Beane don't look better, I couldn't disagree more. Other new regimes have never admitted the bad shape they were in. And they never worked things to get a guy like Josh Allen here. I'm not convinced yet on Allen, far from it, but he at least stands a chance of being a franchise guy. The parade of Tyrods and decrepit Fluties and Bledsoes, the Rob Johnsons and Alex Van Pelts and Cassels and Ortons and Holcombs and Losmans, the Trents and the Fitzies and the Manuels ... has at least finally been noticed and they brought in a guy who at least has a legitimate chance to break that horrible skein of unimpressiveness. Yeah, it took trading away a few guys they probably would rather have kept, all things being equal. And yeah, they got rid of a lot of guys to get them back to cap health. If Allen becomes a franchise guy it will have been worth every extra loss.

 

But their drafts so far look excellent, they're back in good cap shape starting next year and it happened extremely quickly, and they at least got a QB who might be the real thing.

 

You're certainly right that they still have a ton to prove and that they could easily fail. I still have a lot of areas I disagree with them in. But they're making smart plays and their thinking is modern. They've gotten off to the best start of any regime we've seen since Levy in terms of smart moves.

 

But they could easily still fail. Easily. But I'm more hopeful with them than I have been in a long long time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2018 by Thurman#1