oldmanfan Posted October 2, 2018 Posted October 2, 2018 Just now, K-GunJimKelly12 said: This has become the automatic response every time someone criticizes Star, yet I have not seen one person who says this back it up with anything substantial. Here's some substantial. His job is to tie up blockers in the middle so other guys can fill gaps and make tackles. He won't get many solo tackles. He won't get many sacks.
Guest K-GunJimKelly12 Posted October 2, 2018 Posted October 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Here's some substantial. His job is to tie up blockers in the middle so other guys can fill gaps and make tackles. He won't get many solo tackles. He won't get many sacks. Yes I understand that is the narrative and while I don't have the time to be an all-22 watcher, I did noticed the Bills getting gashed on the ground by the Packers. What I am saying is if people just want to blindly throw up "Star job is to occupy blockers so others can make tackles", then showed some evidence(clips) where he is doing that. It just seems to me that a lot of people are towing the company line on Star due to his large contract without really knowing if it is true or not. Seriously, how many people who are saying "Star job is to occupy blockers" have watched the film and know he is doing this, and how many are just parroting what they have heard.
Pasaluki Posted October 2, 2018 Posted October 2, 2018 (edited) Shaq's a rotational dlineman. He never lived up to his draft status, but is serviceable. Star's role is not only to eat up blockers but to dissuade teams from running up the middle. If you dont have a big fatty like that teams will run all day long. The defensive line is ok not great but is hardly worth worrying about when we cant field a coherent offense. Edited October 2, 2018 by Pasaluki
oldmanfan Posted October 2, 2018 Posted October 2, 2018 Just now, K-GunJimKelly12 said: Yes I understand that is the narrative and while I don't have the time to be an all-22 watcher, I did noticed the Bills getting gashed on the ground by the Packers. What I am saying is if people just want to blindly throw up "Star job is to occupy blockers so others can make tackles", then showed some evidence(clips) where he is doing that. It just seems to me that a lot of people are towing the company line on Star due to his large contract without really knowing if it is true or not. Seriously, how many people who are saying "Star job is to occupy blockers" have watched the film and know he is doing this, and how many are just parroting what they have heard. I watch the film and he does that job more often than not. Part of it is Edmunds learning what gaps to hit. and sometimes Start does not win his battles. 1
JohnC Posted October 2, 2018 Posted October 2, 2018 2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: Shaq has only played 2 games and has been decent. He is Ryan Denney 2.0. He is pretty good against the run and has positional versatility. He just isn’t a pass rusher. He is a fine rotational DL just not worth the 1st. Star was a mistake IMO. I’m not worried about his tackle stats. That’s just too much money to pay for a guy to eat blockers. Jonathan Hankins day out there until the start of the regular season before signing a $2M deal. He’s a better player than Star IMO. On a team full of faltering players I'm not going to get too exercised over a player who is actually fulfilling his role. Is he getting overpaid? Probably so. Will his salary squeeze the cap making it difficult to add talent in the next few years? I would say no, especially realizing that next year there will be a lot of financial flexibility to make moves. When assembling a roster there are plenty of players who are both out-performing their contracts and under-performing their contracts. It's impossible to perfectly calibrate the player's cost to production. With Star he is playing a role that although is difficult to quantify certainly is an important role. Watching the games on TV it is difficult to see and judge how he is doing. From all accounts he is fulfilling his role. On a team full of laggards he's one player that I'm not going to complain about.
Big Turk Posted October 2, 2018 Posted October 2, 2018 4 hours ago, BuffaloBillsMagic1 said: Star Lotuleli and Shaq Lawson stats are alarming to say the least. Star, our big signing has 2 tackles and one assist and Shaq , Rex's #1 pick a few years ago has 3 tackles and one assist all season long. To me both have to go. We can't win with this lack of production to say the least. What we saw in either of these two is beyond me. Star doesn't make tackles. He eats up double teams so other people can make tackles. Do you not understand football? Lawson, well...umm...yeah...I got nothing.
Matt_In_NH Posted October 2, 2018 Posted October 2, 2018 Don't worry about Star's tackle numbers, look at how the run defense is doing when he is in there. Lawson go injured early in week 1 I think, he gets the rest of the season to get going. I think he was showing progress in the preseason but a hurt hamstring is tough, even when you are playing, may not be 100%
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 2, 2018 Posted October 2, 2018 4 hours ago, oldmanfan said: You do not understand Star's role. OMG. We are playing a ton of money to a guy who takes up blockers and makes no impact plays. He is unplayable on certain downs and besides our high school offense, this is a passing league. star is fine in his role but unfortunately, it is 2018 and not 1978. This regime is so behind the times.
MJS Posted October 2, 2018 Posted October 2, 2018 4 hours ago, Commonsense said: Is he role not to tackle anyone? 2013 was his best year as a pro and it’s how he got name recognition around the league. 2013 42 total, 11 assisted, 3 sacks 2018 he is on pace for 16 total, 8 assists and zero sacks. That is a less productive player making much more money. Sure he has responsibilities outside of making tackles but you can’t dismiss his lack of productivity just because of that. Precisely. His role is not to tackle. His role is to eat up blockers to allow other guys to get tackles. It's not very hard to understand. Perhaps he is overpaid for that role, but our defensive minded coach thought we needed that, and since our run defense game was complete and utter trash last year, I can see why.
buffalostu2 Posted October 2, 2018 Posted October 2, 2018 Ugh have we not jettisoned enough players already? We have 90 mil in cap space next year and we are complaining about how much guys are making? Does anyone really think we are going to spend 90 mil next year? We can't just get rid of players because they didn't meet the round they were drafted in or aren't pro bowlers. If Shaq were a fourth rounder, would you cut him? So you want to get rid of Star after four games and suck up 50 mil in dead cap. ' Horrible post. I can't believe I was suckered into responding 1
MJS Posted October 2, 2018 Posted October 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: OMG. We are playing a ton of money to a guy who takes up blockers and makes no impact plays. He is unplayable on certain downs and besides our high school offense, this is a passing league. star is fine in his role but unfortunately, it is 2018 and not 1978. This regime is so behind the times. Passing was actually DOWN last year. Teams were running it more. Look at the Saints, who performed a lot better last year with a much more balanced approach to offense. With the new restrictions on defenders this year, I expect passing to be back up by year's end, though. The defense got totally thrashed in the run game last year. Something had to be done to shore that up.
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 2, 2018 Posted October 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, MJS said: Precisely. His role is not to tackle. His role is to eat up blockers to allow other guys to get tackles. It's not very hard to understand. Perhaps he is overpaid for that role, but our defensive minded coach thought we needed that, and since our run defense game was complete and utter trash last year, I can see why. Our coach doesn’t understand modern nfl. I think 8 of the top 10 run defenses last year didn’t even make the playoffs. if anything, you should want teams to run the ball. A lot harder to score. And if Star is so good that teams can’t run the play, all they have to do is spread the field and he is unplayable. Again, he is fine at what he does. But paying that much to a blocker eater in a passing league is a stupid use of money. As much as Dareus stop caring at the end, you could use him on 3 downs.
CommonCents Posted October 2, 2018 Posted October 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, MJS said: Precisely. His role is not to tackle. His role is to eat up blockers to allow other guys to get tackles. It's not very hard to understand. Perhaps he is overpaid for that role, but our defensive minded coach thought we needed that, and since our run defense game was complete and utter trash last year, I can see why. His role is to occupy blockers? Is that your argument? Look at any good “space eating DT” they still end up with 30-45 tackles. Star is way off the mark. That’s an indication that he is less of an anchor than a good DT, he is away from the ball more than others.
MJS Posted October 2, 2018 Posted October 2, 2018 1 minute ago, Commonsense said: His role is to occupy blockers? Is that your argument? Look at any good “space eating DT” they still end up with 30-45 tackles. Star is way off the mark. That’s an indication that he is less of an anchor than a good DT, he is away from the ball more than others. That's his job. Obvisouly you have a problem with it. But it really doesn't matter what you or I think. I think it is foolish to believe the defensive coaches don't understand the modern NFL. They have a defense that performs well and will only continue to get better.
yungmack Posted October 2, 2018 Posted October 2, 2018 Once upon a time, the Bills had a DT who ate up blockers and made sacks and TFLs. But the fans despised him. Fellow by the name of Dareus.
CommonCents Posted October 2, 2018 Posted October 2, 2018 1 minute ago, MJS said: That's his job. Obvisouly you have a problem with it. But it really doesn't matter what you or I think. I think it is foolish to believe the defensive coaches don't understand the modern NFL. They have a defense that performs well and will only continue to get better. Why would his numbers be 4 times as good in the same scheme his first year in Carolina? He is getting pushed around more. Go look at the numbers of space eating DT, the good ones aren’t ending up with 16 tackles a year. That’s ridiculous. That’s not a good player. 1
oldmanfan Posted October 2, 2018 Posted October 2, 2018 17 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: OMG. We are playing a ton of money to a guy who takes up blockers and makes no impact plays. He is unplayable on certain downs and besides our high school offense, this is a passing league. star is fine in his role but unfortunately, it is 2018 and not 1978. This regime is so behind the times. He's fine in his role but he has no role. Uh huh.
Bangarang Posted October 2, 2018 Posted October 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, MJS said: That's his job. Obvisouly you have a problem with it. But it really doesn't matter what you or I think. I think it is foolish to believe the defensive coaches don't understand the modern NFL. They have a defense that performs well and will only continue to get better. I find it hard to believe that a space eating run stuffer can’t at least make a few plays per game stopping the rusher. He’s been absolutely invisible. How many times have we heard his name being mentioned after making a play?
MJS Posted October 2, 2018 Posted October 2, 2018 Just now, Commonsense said: Why would his numbers be 4 times as good in the same scheme his first year in Carolina? He is getting pushed around more. Go look at the numbers of space eating DT, the good ones aren’t ending up with 16 tackles a year. That’s ridiculous. That’s not a good player. I'm not really that interested in spending my time doing that. You can stress over this if you want. Star's job is to eat up blockers. His success will not be captured in tackle stats alone. Maybe he sucks, maybe he doesn't. Using tackles to determine that is short sighted. Good day.
dave mcbride Posted October 2, 2018 Posted October 2, 2018 27 minutes ago, matter2003 said: Star doesn't make tackles. He eats up double teams so other people can make tackles. Do you not understand football? Lawson, well...umm...yeah...I got nothing. All players are supposed to make the occasional play. For a space eating DT, that means the occasional embarrassing of a C/G and tackling an RB in the backfield for a loss.
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