GreggTX Posted October 22, 2018 Posted October 22, 2018 You mean they STILL haven't fired Whaley?! Seriously though, can we at least whine about something that's factually accurate?
Gordio Posted October 22, 2018 Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, TheTruthHurts said: Why draft a major college QB that completed 66% of his passes and threw 41 TD's when we can trade multiple picks to draft a small school college QB that completed 56% and threw 16 TD's? It is comical that people are trying to defend this. Small sample size or not, this guy is the MVP of the league for the first half of the season. he was sitting in our laps whoever was calling the shots didn't draft him. It was a huge mistake, one the bills are going to regret for the next decade or so. Edited October 22, 2018 by Gordio 3
Buffalo_Stampede Posted October 22, 2018 Posted October 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, May Day 10 said: Mahomes would be sputtering here. The handling of allen is all we need to see. Yes Allen is what matters, but sitting a QB behind Taylor IMO would have been the best move while we rebuilt the offense. That should have been the plan. If it was maybe its Mahomes or Watson. Maybe they are still sitting and watching. The Bills messed up QB badly. They didn't stick to their plan. Allen wasn't suppose to play this season, at least not this early.
Gordio Posted October 22, 2018 Posted October 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, TheTruthHurts said: Yes Allen is what matters, but sitting a QB behind Taylor IMO would have been the best move while we rebuilt the offense. That should have been the plan. If it was maybe its Mahomes or Watson. Maybe they are still sitting and watching. The Bills messed up QB badly. They didn't stick to their plan. Allen wasn't suppose to play this season, at least not this early. I was all in for picking Watson or Mahomes. I have been on record about this. I will admit my first choice was Watson which looks like that would of been a mistake too. I hope Allen works out but I have serious doubts. People that watch College Football & watched Allen saw that he wasn't very good. My first choice was Darnold, followed by Rosen & then Mayfield. I wanted nothing to do with Allen. I think this was a case where a team falls in love with the big arm QB, problem is he has no idea how to play QB & he is not accurate. I hope I am wrong. 1
One Buffalo Posted October 22, 2018 Posted October 22, 2018 I haven't read the whole thread, I am sure this has been said many times, but my thinking is that there is so much more to this. Sure Mahomes looks incredible, wish we had that here. But he is like the spark hitting the well built bonfire... we have a bunch of soggy driftwood. Put him here and we might have some sparks and maybe a smoldering fire, but nothing like the blowup that we are seeing in KC. 1
Zerovoltz Posted October 22, 2018 Posted October 22, 2018 5 hours ago, Rc2catch said: My biggest issue with this whole debate is the sample size is so small, and that offense is unstoppable. Alex friggen Smith looked like a sure fire hall of famer for half the season there last year. I hate to wish injuries on players but I’d love to see what Mahomes could do without Kelce and Hill one week. To me, greatness is being able to make stars out of players who aren’t exactly that great. Brady, Brees, Manning, Rodgers all make these receivers house hold names and a large majority of those guys hit free agency and are never that good again. Take away a couple weapons I’m not sold Mahomes is going to be making these stats. Andy Reid is great at designing his offense around his weapons, always has been. However everyone knows the track record at the end of the season/playoffs when all those formations and motions are on tape and they start seeing top defenses who are familiar with the offense they run. In my opinion Reid has done an amazing job making the kid comfortable and slowing the game down for him. I’m just not sold yet. I have to believe 85% of the quarterbacks in the NFL could be piling up similar stats in this offense. Lining up Kelce, Watkins, Hill and having Hunt in the backfield is pretty phenomenal. No defense in the NFL can cover that many weapons. Other teams have similar fire power but I don’t think anyone outside maybe the Rams has that much talent on the field at one time. Lets see if they stay healthy or if they lose a couple guys if Mahomes can carry the team. Or if Reid can still gameplan without all that fire power. Go watch Mahome week 17 last year when he played 3 quarters of the game with all back ups. He looked like he looks now. Then read the Broncos post game comments. Three quarters with backups was enough to sell them. second, if you believe 85% of QB could put up the same numbers as Mahomes, then trading away a first and a third for a QB in a draft loaded with high end defensive talent, that KC is in dire need of, would seem like a poor way to use draft capital when you could have signed McCaron, Bridgewater, Keemum, Bradford, McCown, Tyrod, Cutler, Fitzmagic, etc. I would contend that no where near 85% could, and thats why he went and got Mahomes
NoSaint Posted October 22, 2018 Posted October 22, 2018 35 minutes ago, One Buffalo said: I haven't read the whole thread, I am sure this has been said many times, but my thinking is that there is so much more to this. Sure Mahomes looks incredible, wish we had that here. But he is like the spark hitting the well built bonfire... we have a bunch of soggy driftwood. Put him here and we might have some sparks and maybe a smoldering fire, but nothing like the blowup that we are seeing in KC. But why do we assume everything is the same here if we change this decision? 1
TheElectricCompany Posted October 22, 2018 Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, John from Riverside said: There are some qbs that were good their 1st years that fell back to earth......Dak.....Carr? Those guys has 30 and 21 total TDs in their first full season. . Mahomes already has 24 TDs in 7 games. That's pretty much the point. My goodness, does anyone here even watch the guy play? Edited October 22, 2018 by TheElectricCompany
BringBackOrton Posted October 22, 2018 Posted October 22, 2018 8 hours ago, SDS said: They are only linked in fans’ minds. Regardless, if the same people want to make the same point every week about the Bills not picking him then it is time to move on. If they want to discuss his play then by all means enjoy the show. It’s been 18 months. This is not a recent development and there have been 42 pages of venting. ? We kicked the can on taking a QB in 2017 to build up draft capital for 18. We traded out with KC for the pick that was used on Mahomes. I don't think they are only linked in fans' minds. Allen vs. Mahomes will be a storyline throughout their careers if both players stick around. ESPECIALLY if they are both franchise guys. Bills may see a couple MNF or SNF games vs. the Chiefs. 11 minutes ago, NoSaint said: But why do we assume everything is the same here if we change this decision? We could never have fielded the offensive talent the Chiefs have, but we could have done our own weak impression. Watkins, Woods, Jones, Clay, Shady Hill, Watkins, Conley, Kelce, Hunt Second group is better but I think I'd take the first group for Mahomes or Allen.
BuffaloRebound Posted October 22, 2018 Posted October 22, 2018 The fact that we traded the pick to Kansas City for Mahomes could go down as one of the all time blunders for an organization known for blunders. Instead of taking Mahomes and franchising Gilmore, we take a CB and draft a raw QB from Wyoming. We’re going on about our 7th rebuild in the last 20 years. We trade Hall of Famers and good players for pennies on the dollar, regularly let good free agents walk, and can’t develop a QB because the rest of the team stinks.
SDS Posted October 22, 2018 Posted October 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: ? We kicked the can on taking a QB in 2017 to build up draft capital for 18. We traded out with KC for the pick that was used on Mahomes. I don't think they are only linked in fans' minds. Allen vs. Mahomes will be a storyline throughout their careers if both players stick around. ESPECIALLY if they are both franchise guys. Bills may see a couple MNF or SNF games vs. the Chiefs. No one outside of Buffalo gives this a second thought. Just like no one outside of Buffalo talks about Russell Wilson. It was 18 months ago with a lame duck GM. Let it go. 1
BringBackOrton Posted October 22, 2018 Posted October 22, 2018 1 minute ago, SDS said: No one outside of Buffalo gives this a second thought. Just like no one outside of Buffalo talks about Russell Wilson. It was 18 months ago with a lame duck GM. Let it go. I hear you, but Wilson was 3 rounds of teams passing on him. A lot of that may be that no one outside of Buffalo gives the Bills a second thought, especially on a year like this one.
17 Josh Allen Posted October 22, 2018 Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, SDS said: Personally, I don’t care if people want to discuss a dynamic player in the league. But if this topic continues to be a huge pissing match, where people just keep poking people in the eyes week after week after week, then we should just close it and get on with life. You are wrong sir. This moment was a water shed moment for this Bills franchise. The Bills had the 10th pick in the 2017 draft. They needed a QB like forever and neeed one bad. Most people in football knew that. We had are shot at 2 of them Mahomes and Watson. We decided to pass and to make matters worse we traded our pick to KC who then proceeded to take Mahomes. Right after the trade The Chiefs Andy Reid and the Chiefs GM were quoted as saying you do not pass on a generational talent like this, they said he was the closest thing to Farve since Farve was in the league. Now I know some on here were loving the trade because the Bills got CB T. White and he turned out great and we used the extra KC pick to help get Edmonds 2018. But I would gladly give up all my picks from this draft class 2018 and last draft class 2017 to have Mahomes right now. In that huge Mahomes thread that got merged because their was 6 threads about mahomes at the time. By the way, a few of them I started. I posted that the Bills should trade all their 2017 draft picks and move up to number 1 to take Mahomes. You would have thought I commited the worst sin known to man for suggesting that. Their were many posters before me and Jeffsmagic that were on the Mahomes train. I had stated in those threads you could have a draft with a Andre Reed, Bruce Smith and 6 other all pros but what good would it do you if you had Tyod as your QB. I have no idea why people get so excited when we draft a CB or linebacker in the 1st round ever year. All that matters is the QB. I see a lot of good in Josh Allen. He has the most upside and needs time to develop. I have no idea why the Bills do not go out and get the best Qb coach and Offensive coordinator money can buy. There is no salary cap on coaching why take has beens and put him in charge of your possible 100 million franchise QB. This passing on Mahomes is almost as bad as when the Bills traded up into the 3rd round to draft WR T.J.Graham and passed on Russell Wilson only to have Seattle take Wilson right after the Bills selection in that draft. Not as magnified because that was in the 3rd round. But probably just as bad. Both times the Bills missed out on franchise QB’s, there was a trade involved. Of course the Bills were on the wrong end of it. So if your tired of reading this thread then just don’t open it up any more and go about your business. But this will be discussed one way or another until there is no more Buffalo Bills so get used to it. Edited October 22, 2018 by 17 Josh Allen 2
John from Riverside Posted October 22, 2018 Posted October 22, 2018 53 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said: Those guys has 30 and 21 total TDs in their first full season. . Mahomes already has 24 TDs in 7 games. That's pretty much the point. My goodness, does anyone here even watch the guy play? I think your missing the point he is playing lights out right now that does not auto equal future success oeraonally I hope he does keep it up Kansas City deserves some good fortune 19 minutes ago, 17 Josh Allen said: You are wrong sir. This moment was a water shed moment for this Bills franchise. The Bills had the 10th pick in the 2017 draft. They needed a QB like forever and neeed one bad. Most people in football knew that. We had are shot at 2 of them Mahomes and Watson. We decided to pass and to make matters worse we traded our pick to KC who then proceeded to take Mahomes. Right after the trade The Chiefs Andy Reid and the Chiefs GM were quoted as saying you do not pass on a generational talent like this, they said he was the closest thing to Farve since Farve was in the league. Now I know some on here were loving the trade because the Bills got CB T. White and he turned out great and we used the extra KC pick to help get Edmonds 2018. But I would gladly give up all my picks from this draft class 2018 and last draft class 2017 to have Mahomes right now. In that huge Mahomes thread that got merged because their was 6 threads about mahomes at the time. By the way, a few of them I started. I posted that the Bills should trade all their 2017 draft picks and move up to number 1 to take Mahomes. You would have thought I commited the worst sin known to man for suggesting that. Their were many posters before me and Jeffsmagic that were on the Mahomes train. I had stated in those threads you could have a draft with a Andre Reed, Bruce Smith and 6 other all pros but what good would it do you if you had Tyod as your QB. I have no idea why people get so excited when we draft a CB or linebacker in the 1st round ever year. All that matters is the QB. I see a lot of good in Josh Allen. He has the most upside and needs time to develop. I have no idea why the Bills do not go out and get the best Qb coach and Offensive coordinator money can buy. There is no salary cap on coaching why take has beens and put him in charge of your possible 100 million franchise QB. This passing on Mahomes is almost as bad as when the Bills traded up into the 3rd round to draft WR T.J.Graham and passed on Russell Wilson only to have Seattle take Wilson right after the Bills selection in that draft. Not as magnified because that was in the 3rd round. But probably just as bad. Both times the Bills missed out on franchise QB’s, there was a trade involved. Of course the Bills were on the wrong end of it. So if your tired of reading this thread then just don’t open it up any more and go about your business. But this will be discussed one way or another until there is no more Buffalo Bills so get used to it. Lol someone is about to get a vacation
davefan66 Posted October 22, 2018 Posted October 22, 2018 Hindsight allows us to look at the trade and see it was probably a bad move when strictly looking at Mahomes and his current season. Yeah, looks bad. Doesn’t mean he’d be this good here. Much better offensive talent on the Chiefs, and a coaching staff getting their all from the team. Can’t compare Allen and Mahomes unless they havensimiliar offensive talent and coaching. If Allen does become a good QB, and White and Edmunds continue to play like they are, then maybe the trade is even.
george c Posted October 22, 2018 Posted October 22, 2018 10 hours ago, DJB said: Honestly this is more about Andy Reid a competent play caller than it is about Mahomes. If you flip flopped Allen and Mahomes my guess is there would be similar results. Seriously? 2
jrober38 Posted October 22, 2018 Posted October 22, 2018 56 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said: The fact that we traded the pick to Kansas City for Mahomes could go down as one of the all time blunders for an organization known for blunders. Instead of taking Mahomes and franchising Gilmore, we take a CB and draft a raw QB from Wyoming. We’re going on about our 7th rebuild in the last 20 years. We trade Hall of Famers and good players for pennies on the dollar, regularly let good free agents walk, and can’t develop a QB because the rest of the team stinks. Agreed. Mahomes was better than Allen as a prospect in every category. Makes zero sense to pass on the big, strong, athletic QB with a rocket arm who threw for a million yards in college and come right back the next year and take the big, strong, athletic QB with a rocket arm who was a middle of the road QB in the Mountain West Conference. Absolutely mind boggling.
TheElectricCompany Posted October 22, 2018 Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: I think your missing the point he is playing lights out right now that does not auto equal future success oeraonally I hope he does keep it up Kansas City deserves some good fortune John, I get your point, but you are not talking about a guy with middling success. He is absolutely demolishing the league. He will likely finish with 45+ TDs in his first full season. 45+!!!! I doubt you will find any player in the league history who was this good this early and then just fell back to mediocrity. If he lost 25% of his production, he'd still be a the lead MVP candidate! We talk about Josh improving with playing time, is Mahomes not able to make the same strides? Edited October 22, 2018 by TheElectricCompany
jrober38 Posted October 22, 2018 Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said: John, I get your point, but you are not talking about a guy with middling success. He is absolutely demolishing the league. He will likely finish with 45+ TDs in his first full season. 45+!!!! I doubt you will find any player in the league history who was this good this early and then just fell back to mediocrity. If he lost 25% of his production, he'd still be a the lead MVP candidate! We talk about Josh improving with playing time, is Mahomes not able to make the same strides? It's so sad when the only thing people have to hang their hat on that we didn't get completely fleeced in this trade is that Mahomes MIGHT not keep up his play. As you said, if he regresses slightly, he's still a top 5 QB. Everyone seems convinced that Allen will progress. I don't understand why he's immune from regression as well, similar to EJ Manuel who wasn't completely awful as a rookie and was a complete dumpster fire at QB his 2nd season. Some people are convinced Allen will be FINE. What if he gets worse? Why do we have to tear down the amazing things other players around the league are doing in an attempt to not make our players look like complete garbage? Edited October 22, 2018 by jrober38 1
Gordio Posted October 22, 2018 Posted October 22, 2018 1 hour ago, SDS said: No one outside of Buffalo gives this a second thought. Just like no one outside of Buffalo talks about Russell Wilson. It was 18 months ago with a lame duck GM. Let it go. Why should we let it go. It was a huge mistake from a franchise that has made huge mistake after huge mistake over the past 20 years. 35 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: I think your missing the point he is playing lights out right now that does not auto equal future success oeraonally I hope he does keep it up Kansas City deserves some good fortune Lol someone is about to get a vacation Why because he disagreed with SDS? That was a well thought out post.
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