Fred Clause Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 4 hours ago, BullBuchanan said: The Chiefs Offense looks every bit the equal of the 99 Rams. I agree that we should've taken a QB that year, but the smart money was Watson there. Mahommes would have been a bust here - he wouldn't have had the veteran QB leadership, Hall of Fame coach, Tyreek Hill, Kareem Hunt, Travis Kelce, OLine, etc. that he has in KC. Mahommes has looked excellent so far, but Hill, Hunt, and Kelce were wrecking people with Alex Smith at the helm. Hill/Hunt made Mahommes look better than he played today It is ok. Might want to bone up on the history of that country you pretend to care about so much. Maybe you should leave this country if you think it was so bad. Your take on this country is as bad as your takes on the Bills... 1
Teddy KGB Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Fred Clause said: Maybe you should leave this country if you think it was so bad. Your take on this country is as bad as your takes on the Bills... USA the goat ! ?? ?? ??????????
PatsFanNH Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 10 hours ago, RyanC883 said: Mahomes has Andy Reid, T. Hill, and a much better O-line. Don’t forget about Hunt, and the second best TE in the NFL.. he has weapons make him look good even when he makes bad throws (last long TD By hill which was way high that he went up and got.) 1
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 3 hours ago, papazoid said: Mahomes = Franchise QB = Top 10 (already there) Allen = Solid Starter = Top 15-20 (upside)…...currently Top 25- 30 Andy Reid is smarter than McDermott regarding that trade You think Allen is top 25-30 right now? 9 hours ago, Success said: You think Mahomes would look like this had he started last year? I think he would look better than Allen.
LFC24 Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said: You think Allen is top 25-30 right now? Allen is the worst starting QB in the NFL 1
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 10 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said: Here is a perfect example of my Type 2 fallacy - "you can't blame the Bills braintrust for passing on Mahomes ... after all, they've failed to put in place an effective coaching staff, an impact receiver, or a competent offensive line too." Yeah, I don’t get this line of thinking. SM is on OC number 2 already. Most of their offensive decisions have been horrible. They picked a raw qb who wasn’t that great in college and were forced to play him because their other option is so terrible. How can anyone be confident with them going forward? 2 minutes ago, LFC24 said: Allen is the worst starting QB in the NFL There are backups better than him. I mean he’s young but he has been. He’s way worse than EJ was as rookie! 1
jrober38 Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 14 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: You think Allen is top 25-30 right now? He's the worst starter in the league and it's not close. There are probably 25 backups I'd take over him at this point.
OrtonHearsaWho Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 Am I thrilled with Allen so far? No I'm not. At the same time, I am so freaking tired of threads like this. Would we have been better off drafting him? Absolutely no one can definitively say yes. Weren't we saying the same thing about Watson by this time last season? He looks very average so far this year and we just made him look pretty awful. Dak Prescott was an MVP candidate his rookie year...then what? Middle of the pack. I'm not about to label Allen a bust and I'm not about to put Mahomes in the hall of fame. One looks bad right now and one looks great but to use the sample size that we've have of both players and then make a black & white opinion is insane at best and ignorant at worst although not very out of line with how opinions are formed about everything else in this country. 2
jrober38 Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 1 minute ago, OrtonHearsaWho said: Am I thrilled with Allen so far? No I'm not. At the same time, I am so freaking tired of threads like this. Would we have been better off drafting him? Absolutely no one can definitively say yes. Weren't we saying the same thing about Watson by this time last season? He looks very average so far this year and we just made him look pretty awful. Dak Prescott was an MVP candidate his rookie year...then what? Middle of the pack. I'm not about to label Allen a bust and I'm not about to put Mahomes in the hall of fame. One looks bad right now and one looks great but to use the sample size that we've have of both players and then make a black & white opinion is insane at best and ignorant at worst although not very out of line with how opinions are formed about everything else in this country. You can't definitely say we'd be better off, but you can make a highly educated guess. Mahomes was an elite passer coming out of college. He needed to learn the NFL offense, but the ability to throw accurate passes all over the field was clearly there when evaluating him as a prospect. Allen was a mediocre QB in a terrible conference. He was a game manager in college who wasn't asked to do much. It's entirely fair to be critical of us passing on Mahomes for the same type of prospect as Allen. Mahomes looks amazing and Allen is hands down the worst starting QB in the league right now. Why do we need to tear down other QBs to make our QB not look as bad? We'd be in the heart of the playoff race with any of the guys you mentioned.
TheElectricCompany Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 8 minutes ago, OrtonHearsaWho said: I'm not about to label Allen a bust and I'm not about to put Mahomes in the hall of fame. One looks bad right now and one looks great but to use the sample size that we've have of both players and then make a black & white opinion is insane at best and ignorant at worst although not very out of line with how opinions are formed about everything else in this country. Mahomes has put up 20 TDs in 6 games. I'd bet the only QBs who have done that before are current elites or HOFers, so he's in really good company.
OrtonHearsaWho Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 1 minute ago, TheElectricCompany said: Mahomes has put up 20 TDs in 6 games. I'd bet the only QBs who have done that before are current elites or HOFers, so he's in really good company. Also the other QB that I mentioned...Deshaun Watson. Definitely looked elite yesterday. Again I am not saying that he is not going to be great...he very well could be but it's also possible that he'll come back down to Earth once there is tape on him...like Watson...like Prescott. Frankly I hope he stays just as good because the league could use the excitement but I'm not going to anoint him after 7 starts and I'm not ready to give up on Allen after 5 starts. 2
FeelingOnYouboty Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 I won't let the Bills incompetence make me hate Patrick Mahomes. He's just so incredible to watch. 1
jrober38 Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, OrtonHearsaWho said: Also the other QB that I mentioned...Deshaun Watson. Definitely looked elite yesterday. Again I am not saying that he is not going to be great...he very well could be but it's also possible that he'll come back down to Earth once there is tape on him...like Watson...like Prescott. Frankly I hope he stays just as good because the league could use the excitement but I'm not going to anoint him after 7 starts and I'm not ready to give up on Allen after 5 starts. Deshaun Watson has been exponentially better than Josh Allen this year. He had a bad game yesterday against an elite defense, but over the course of the year he's averaging almost 300 yards per game passing, 8.3 YPA and a QB Rating of 90.8. If we had that type of QB play with our elite defense instead of the garbage we've had from Peterman and Allen, we'd likely be 4-2 or possibly 5-1 right now.
RyanC883 Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 5 hours ago, AllenWillBust said: Ah yes, Bills fans making excuses, we do have the best fan base, the best at making excuses! Apparently facts don't matter to you. Is Allen surrounded by as much talent as Mahomes? Did he sit for a year and learn from Reid and A. Smith. Does Allen have anyone of the caliber (or near it) to Reid to discuss plays with during the game? 1
PatsFanNH Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 (edited) Ok outside perspective: Mahomes - second year player with a talented WR/TE along with a super talented RB in Hunt. He also has a average to slightly above average line.. (was labeled a minor project in his draft class that would help from sitting and learning which he did) Judgement: any competent QB back there would look good. Mahommes is above average in my opinion based on his ability extend plays circa Big Ben. final thoughts: be a top 10 QB whose mistakes will cost them 2 or 3 games this year as his defense is not good enough overcome them. (2-3 loses included last nights game) Allen - A rookie with a below average WR/TE as well as O Line. The only true known talent on theO is McCoy the Bills RB and he is 30 with a lot of wear and tear on his legs. (Was also labeled as the best pure athlete in his draft class with the raw potential be a great QB bit needed time to develop.. was thrown into the fray his rookie year. Judgement: you really can’t make one, he is what everyone thought he was a Raw talented player that needed time to develop who has ZERO weapons around him make him look better than he currently is. Be honest he been a perfect fit for a team like Nee Orleans or New England with an aging, great QB, that he could learn behind and get himself up to NFL Speed... but he isn’t there and the he is learning the speed of the NFL on the fly. He has shown flashes of what makes him a top prospect but like most rookies also made dumb mistakes. Final thoughts: GIVE THE KID A BREAK! It be at least 2 years before you know if you got a true diamond in the ruff now. But the Bills will be competitive and should win their fare share of games and possibly knock on the playoff door again. (Lot of 3 and 4 loss teams already) Edited October 15, 2018 by PatsFanNH 2
TheElectricCompany Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 35 minutes ago, OrtonHearsaWho said: Also the other QB that I mentioned...Deshaun Watson. Definitely looked elite yesterday. Again I am not saying that he is not going to be great...he very well could be but it's also possible that he'll come back down to Earth once there is tape on him...like Watson...like Prescott. Frankly I hope he stays just as good because the league could use the excitement but I'm not going to anoint him after 7 starts and I'm not ready to give up on Allen after 5 starts. What is the tape going to tell you about Mahomes? Do you think defenses have some secret weapon they can pull out? If a QB can throw with tremendous accuracy and anticipation down the field, it's over. No defense can shut down that down. He scored 23 points against an elite defense last week. He torched the Pats for 40 points yesterday on the road. Funny how we're expecting all the young guns like Trubisky, Mahomes and Goff to cool off with "tape"
OrtonHearsaWho Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said: What is the tape going to tell you about Mahomes? Do you think defenses have some secret weapon they can pull out? If a QB can throw with tremendous accuracy and anticipation down the field, it's over. No defense can shut down that down. He scored 23 points against an elite defense last week. He torched the Pats for 40 points yesterday on the road. Funny how we're expecting all the young guns like Trubisky, Mahomes and Goff to cool off with "tape" The other things that those QBs have - a supporting cast and capable offensive coaching staffs.
TheElectricCompany Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, OrtonHearsaWho said: The other things that those QBs have - a supporting cast and capable offensive coaching staffs. Of course, but those are complimentary pieces. The #1 reason those QBs look great is because they can consistently throw with great accuracy and anticipation down the field. That's really what elite QB play comes down 1
OrtonHearsaWho Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 12 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said: Of course, but those are complimentary pieces. The #1 reason those QBs look great is because they can consistently throw with great accuracy and anticipation down the field. That's really what elite QB play comes down I don't disagree with you at all. My main reason for commenting is because of the tenor of the OP. I get the knee jerk reactions to the team but relitigating draft picks is such a constant theme here (likely on all other teams boards as well) that it drives me insane. It's a whole lot easier to look at Mahomes and say "yeah he's going to be great for a while" because he has one more off-season under his belt and because those complimentary pieces (surrounding talent & coaching) are likely going to be around for a while. My reaction is in response to the number of people writing off Allen so quickly. He might be a bust and he might not be but to make declarations (again others here - I'm not pointing a finger) with SUCH certainly this early in his development is crazy.
Yav Posted October 15, 2018 Posted October 15, 2018 9 hours ago, BullBuchanan said: The Chiefs Offense looks every bit the equal of the 99 Rams. I agree that we should've taken a QB that year, but the smart money was Watson there. Mahommes would have been a bust here - he wouldn't have had the veteran QB leadership, Hall of Fame coach, Tyreek Hill, Kareem Hunt, Travis Kelce, OLine, etc. that he has in KC. Mahommes has looked excellent so far, but Hill, Hunt, and Kelce were wrecking people with Alex Smith at the helm. Hill/Hunt made Mahommes look better than he played today It is ok. Might want to bone up on the history of that country you pretend to care about so much. If you're trying to question my patriotism or my knowledge of the United States I do believe you just crossed the line. I suggest you take a long look at what goes on during the national anthem at chefs games. Then start looking on line and you'll see chefs fans complaining about players taking a knee while not wearing a hat and looking at the flag while the national anthem is being played. As for mahommes, I couldn't care any less than I do right now about him. I watched the game, and on the last td play he threw look close, he had time in the pocket (better line than the bills), then look at hill get wide open and still have to jump for a pass that was over thrown, he adjusted made a good catch and then out ran every player on the field. I suppose that's all because mahommes right? NO. Again, he needs to show he can have success for more than 6 games and more than 1 year (see Prescott in Dallas and Watson in Houston, or Winstead in Tampa, better yet Kaepernick). There is no comparing a true rookie like Allen to a second year player. mahommes had the luxury of sitting and learning the offense for an entire year behind Smith, he also has the luxury of having some damn good offensive coaches. Again, I'll reserve my judgement on him until he can show he's not a pretender like the others. 1
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