Someone needs to be fired over Mahomes right now.

[17 Josh Allen]

4 hours ago, BillsVet said:

Truly amazing how many fans posting here just KNOW Mahomes is going to be a star.  

 

Many of us said and we started threads about Mahomes. I stated that he should go number 1 over all. I stated I would trade the Bills entire draft to move up to number 1 to draft him. This is a fact, I was posting as billsareback and I started the thread during that draft season. Me and Jeffsmagic were ridiculed and attacked. Jeffsmagic quit the forum over it. We both stated mahomes would win super bowls and make the chiefs the dominate team in the AFC for the next 10 years. Shame on you or anyone else saying no one saw this. We called our shot we said he was generational and the next Farve before he was drafted. Any one else who says anything different is lying. 

Edited October 3, 2018 by 17 Josh Allen

[ghostwriter]

7 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Stop watching if it frustrates you.

 

I don't plan my day around the Bills anymore. I won't watch Sunday as I have other plans. If I don't have plans I watch, but the last 18 years have been awful and I've lost some interest. 

 

Some years have been very fun at times, 2014 and last year being examples, but for the most part they are a constant train wreck.

 

 

I can't stop watching, I love the Bills, I only get so animated because I care about the team and the wonderful city of Buffalo so much. The Bills are my family, you don't give up on family. You may disagree with them and hate what they're doing, but your stuck with them for life.

[Virgil]

8 hours ago, starrymessenger said:

 

Do you think Andy told him who he wanted?

 

I think everyone knew who they wanted. 

[Fan in Chicago]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

So YES, I do have faith.  They have NOT done anything to me to make me concerned.  They had to tear down the things everyone hated that Whaley did to get this team in position to truly build a new foundation with the proper cap space.  So right now, absolutely they have my trust.  I said that BEFORE the season began, I would NOT judge them on THIS season as all the moves were NOT for payoff THIS season, but for the future of this franchise.  

 

I argue that a total teardown was not necessary and a measured rebuild could have set us up for the future without destroying so much of the present. Last year we made the playoffs yes, but stumbled and bumbled into it and got thoroughly embarassed in the first game, especially on Offense. I realize that Woods (I am sure McD weighed in on that decision), Brown, Darby etc may not be superstars but they were good role pieces which you are always going to need. By shipping out so many players in such short a time, they forced their own hand in fielding a terribly weak roster of starters and we are not even talking about the backups yet. I am not in the camp that Whaley picks were terrible. We could have built on what we had while getting rid of underperformers like Dareus. I can point to the Rams, 49ers as teams who have rebuilt in the fly. 

 

At this point, given the results we have seen from the FA pickups, I cant say i have strong confidence in the FO. And you say this is year 2, but the organization is responsible as a whole. We cannot give the current office a pass just because they werent around for past failures. There are several cases in the NFL today which say that the current way of roster building is not optimal. I have yet to see sustained success to trust the process. 

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, NewDayBills said:

Your optimistic in the rebuild, I'm not. I went over why I'm not optimistic repeatedly already, you disagree and that's fine. To be frank, I don't trust the process.

 

Can I blame McD for the last 20 years? No. It's a collection of people, he is part of it though. Ralph being the biggest part of it, Terry the lesser part. I'm just frustrated man.

 

Ralph is dead, let it go.

[B Fan in LA]

 

We outlived Ralph, and all is family related decisions to keep the expenses tight.

But holy cow, there are people who can build a great franchise with limited funds.

Have you ever heard of the Green Bay Packers ??

 

[Yav]

On 10/1/2018 at 9:49 PM, Nelius said:

 

Probably should have stopped at Dak. Wilson is a horrible example. Yes, please give me a Super Bowl champion and a 4x Pro Bowler at QB..

Really? 

 

He is responsible for the pic that gave NE a SB. He’s not all that impressive these days. Kapernick had a good year, took the 49ers to a SB and lost, yet people aren’t falling over for him. 

[Thurman#1]

13 hours ago, Boca BIlls said:

Nope it doesnt mean any of that. Rodgers would have been good from day one, hell only reason he was on the bench was b.c he had a HoF QB in front of him. Brees didnt even sit a full season, Brady would have been good front he beginning. 

 

 

Sorry, man, it means exactly that. 

 

If Rodgers would have been good from day one ... wait for it ... he would have been good from day one. But he wasn't. He actually was disappointing for three long years. Beyond disappointing and into bad, actually. But they developed him, relentlessly. The HC set up a "Camp QB" and worked and worked his ass. They changed his mechanics and he sat and learned the playbook and how to read defenses. And that meant by the time he started getting a ton of playing time his mechanics had improved, and he understood what was going on around him.

 

Yeah, he had Favre in front of him, kicking butt. And with the same personnel, Rodgers was dismal for three years. And in year four he'd finally developed and his performance took a major extremely visible leap.

 

 

 

 

And it's pretty well-known. Here's Bob McGinn the 30-year Packers beat reporter:

 

The MMQB: "You documented how fortunate it was that Aaron Rodgers didn’t have to play the first couple of years—he just wasn’t ready."

 

McGinn: “He was a very poor player here for his first two summers and regular-season practices. Fortunately for him, and he knows that down deep, he didn’t have to play early. His delivery was a mess, bad body language, he didn’t know how to deal with teammates. He learned so much from Brett Favre on how to in some ways be one of the guys and relate, and he became much more of a leader. He was really poor and how many great players have ever had a start like that? Not that many. A lot of scouts look at that exhibition tape those first two years and he was a little bit better the third year, but not to any degree, and then he just really developed. He lost a lot of close games in ’08, but by ’09 he was playing great and by 2010 he was maybe the best in the business. "

 

https://www.si.com/mmqb/2017/06/13/themmqb-exit-interview-bob-mcginn-green-bay-packers-milwaukee-journal-sentinel-nfl-beat-writer

 

 

 

That doesn't mean that every QB needs time at the beginning. Though it would probably help nearly everyone. But some guys are far more NFL-ready than others.

 

Edited October 3, 2018 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

41 minutes ago, Yav said:

Really? 

 

He is responsible for the pic that gave NE a SB. He’s not all that impressive these days. Kapernick had a good year, took the 49ers to a SB and lost, yet people aren’t falling over for him. 

 

 

Really. Wilson was a guy who was NFL-ready.

 

Wilson's a terrific QB, still playing very well, in a far less talented lineup. Kaepernick simply isn't as good as Wilson, or close.

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, Fan in Chicago said:

 

I argue that a total teardown was not necessary and a measured rebuild could have set us up for the future without destroying so much of the present. Last year we made the playoffs yes, but stumbled and bumbled into it and got thoroughly embarassed in the first game, especially on Offense. I realize that Woods (I am sure McD weighed in on that decision), Brown, Darby etc may not be superstars but they were good role pieces which you are always going to need. By shipping out so many players in such short a time, they forced their own hand in fielding a terribly weak roster of starters and we are not even talking about the backups yet. I am not in the camp that Whaley picks were terrible. We could have built on what we had while getting rid of underperformers like Dareus. I can point to the Rams, 49ers as teams who have rebuilt in the fly. 

 

At this point, given the results we have seen from the FA pickups, I cant say i have strong confidence in the FO. And you say this is year 2, but the organization is responsible as a whole. We cannot give the current office a pass just because they werent around for past failures. There are several cases in the NFL today which say that the current way of roster building is not optimal. I have yet to see sustained success to trust the process. 

 

 

A measured rebuild is what they did. If they'd done a total teardown they'd have dumped or traded Tyrod, Kyle Williams and Incognito. Probably Hughes too, as at 29 he was already starting to get old. They certainly wouldn't have carried the personnel to win nine games last year if it had been a total rebuild.

 

And as I've pointed out before, there are three excellent reasons they let go plenty of guys who were at least useful.

 

1) Some didn't fit the new scheme. Darby is the best example.

 

2) They needed to assemble an awful lot of draft capital for the 2018 draft to be absolutely sure they could get one of the top three or four QBs in that draft. This was an absolute necessity. 

 

3) And the one people again and again try to ignore is that Whaley left them in horrible cap shape and the Pegulas knew it and wanted it cleaned up, and the new guys have publicly said that they promised the cap situation would be completely cleaned up by the end of this year. This was a huge part in the utility of getting rid of guys like Watkins, Woods, Gilmore, etc. Keeping them would have been massively expensive. This is why we have historic levels of dead cap this year and aren't rolling it over. They're swallowing a bitter pill this year, courtesy of Whaley's horrible cap management.

[Ol Dirty B]

14 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

A measured rebuild is what they did. If they'd done a total teardown they'd have dumped or traded Tyrod, Kyle Williams and Incognito. Probably Hughes too, as at 29 he was already starting to get old. They certainly wouldn't have carried the personnel to win nine games last year if it had been a total rebuild.

 

And as I've pointed out before, there are three excellent reasons they let go plenty of guys who were at least useful.

 

1) Some didn't fit the new scheme. Darby is the best example.

 

2) They needed to assemble an awful lot of draft capital for the 2018 draft to be absolutely sure they could get one of the top three or four QBs in that draft. This was an absolute necessity. 

 

3) And the one people again and again try to ignore is that Whaley left them in horrible cap shape and the Pegulas knew it and wanted it cleaned up, and the new guys have publicly said that they promised the cap situation would be completely cleaned up by the end of this year. This was a huge part in the utility of getting rid of guys like Watkins, Woods, Gilmore, etc. Keeping them would have been massively expensive. This is why we have historic levels of dead cap this year and aren't rolling it over. They're swallowing a bitter pill this year, courtesy of Whaley's horrible cap management.

 

Thanks, if I wanted to listen to whatever crap McDermott would say I'd just replay any of his comments to the media after the Baltimore loss.

 

Lol at you. I can't believe people are going to fall for these excuses again.

 

As an example of your ridiculousness I'll point out that Darby never even played a game in this scheme, yet if anyone criticizes the offense they throw out it has only been 4 games. 

Edited October 3, 2018 by Ol Dirty B

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

4 hours ago, GreggTX said:

You are 100%  correct, OP! Doug Whaley should be fired immediately !!!

Funny how McDermott got credit for the trade down and tre white pick until Mahomrs showed everyone it was a mistake. 

 

The same people saying Whaley was a lame duck are now saying he’s to blame. 

[Ol Dirty B]

1 minute ago, Chemical said:

Funny how McDermott got credit for the trade down and tre white pick until Mahomrs showed everyone it was a mistake. 

 

The same people saying Whaley was a lame duck are now saying he’s to blame. 

 

These McDermott fans are the worst. They have no consistency, you can't pin them down on any opinion. It is consistently changing, and it always goes back to whatley when they run out of excuses.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

These McDermott fans are the worst. They have no consistency, you can't pin them down on any opinion. It is consistently changing, and it always goes back to whatley when they run out of excuses.

 

Here’s an opinion for you: purging Whaley’s bums was absolutely necessary. What’s that? Watkins is hurt AGAIN?

[Real McClappy]

9 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

This crap needs to stop.  Woods left in March 2017.  When Whaley was there.  Beane started May 2017.

 

Whaley could have resigned him if Woods had wanted to sign.  Beane wasn't here when he left.

 

Beane has absolutely nothing to do with Woods.

Nor did he have anything to do with Mahomes and that is kinda the point to this whole thread being mute. Allen needs more weapons around him like Mahomes to make a fair accurate statement about him. This is not going to happen this year unfortunately and we will see Mahomes, Watson and Rosen threads for the next year straight.

 

If you flip the script right now with Allen starting in KC and Mahomes here, We would have a thread right now like this--->

Someone needs to be fired over Allen right now.

Edited October 3, 2018 by Real McCoy

[Teddy KGB]

6 hours ago, Yav said:

Really? 

 

He is responsible for the pic that gave NE a SB. He’s not all that impressive these days. Kapernick had a good year, took the 49ers to a SB and lost, yet people aren’t falling over for him. 

 

Russell Wilson and Patrick Mahomes aren’t that good guy ^^^^

 

Gross 

Edited October 3, 2018 by Teddy KGB

[Gordio]

10 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You see, there is the source of your problem...this lie you live and tell yourself.  You claim 20 years...no its not.  Its YEAR 2.  The previous 18 years before this regime, this GM, this Coach etc literally have zero...if less than zero was possible, it would be that...literally zero relevance to this team right now.  

 

Its always the same story...this fan base puts all of the past failures of different coaches, different GMs, different owners, even periods with no GMs...all on the current regime every time.  And the moment they dont have immediate success, they crap all over them and blame the previous years on them too.  Its absurd.

 

Whats even more absurd, is that THIS regime had IMMEDIATE and UNEXPECTED success getting a mediocre talented team to the Playoffs to break 17 years.  And had Zay not run such a sloppy route against Carolina, we would have won 10 games.  Had the Peterman experiment not happened in SD too, we may have even won 11 games.  

 

But THAT team LAST year was NOT going to win us a SUPER BOWL.  Major changes needed to happen...they got rid of BAD contracts, players who didnt fit the long term plans, players they didnt feel they could retain, players they felt didnt fit their system.  And in the process lost a couple more they didnt expect on the OL.  But they emerged to set this team up LONG TERM by getting a very talented young QB, a very talented LB to anchor our D, a very talented heir to Kyle, and also a BUTT LOAD of Cap Space and lots of extra draft picks this next year.  

 

All this whining about this year is pointless.  All this "20 years" crap are your own personal issues and literally has NOTHING to do with the state of this team or the competency of this regime.  We wont know how good of a job they are or aren't doing for 2 more years.  Its greatly rooted in the development of Allen and Edmunds (more Allen though) and how they use this cap space and picks the next year or two to stack talent around our young players.    

 

 

 

Fair point but Bills have seen this movie before.  Your right they are not responsible for the past 20 years but that doesn't mean we have to give this shitshow the benefit of the doubt.  You suckers keep buying up the tickets & wasting your time watching the games every Sunday, I am going golfing like I did last week on Sunday afternoons until the weather turns.  Their plan may ultimately work but Bills fans do not want to hear anymore "wait to next year."   Kim Pegula preaches patience, we have been patient since the MUsic City Miracle & their is no fan base, especially one as loyal as Bills nation, that deserves to be put thru what we have been put thru the past 20 years.  Like I said Mcd & Beane may ultimately be successful, their early moves suggest that they are in way over their head.  & Pegula's track record with both the Sabres & Bills as an owner is absolutely disgraceful.  

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, Gordio said:

 

 

Fair point but Bills have seen this movie before.  Your right they are not responsible for the past 20 years but that doesn't mean we have to give this shitshow the benefit of the doubt.  You suckers keep buying up the tickets & wasting your time watching the games every Sunday, I am going golfing like I did last week on Sunday afternoons until the weather turns.  Their plan may ultimately work but Bills fans do not want to hear anymore "wait to next year."   Kim Pegula preaches patience, we have been patient since the MUsic City Miracle & their is no fan base, especially one as loyal as Bills nation, that deserves to be put thru what we have been put thru the past 20 years.  Like I said Mcd & Beane may ultimately be successful, their early moves suggest that they are in way over their head.  & Pegula's track record with both the Sabres & Bills as an owner is absolutely disgraceful.  

Good.  You do that then.  I'll watch the game.  Hope you don't mind.

[Gordio]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

Good.  You do that then.  I'll watch the game.  Hope you don't mind.

 

 

I don't mind at all brother, enjoy.

[NoSaint]

5 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

These McDermott fans are the worst. They have no consistency, you can't pin them down on any opinion. It is consistently changing, and it always goes back to whatley when they run out of excuses.

 

It’s an exhausting quality of the board lately.

 

either “Whaley’s fault” or “but playoffs” from a  relatively large cross section of posters on darn near anything that’s not glowingly positive