A few thoughts about the Packers game, in no particular order

[Virgil]

Sorry for the lateness, but I've been sick all day which has caused me to be in and out of sleep.  I also wanted to sit on my thoughts for a bit and enjoy the other games.

 

1 - Overall Defense - I think most teams would take giving up 22 points at Green Bay.  In a week where some guys showed up and others didn't, the defense looks to have kept up with their recent improvements and still showing what we hoped for in the offseason.  We didn't get the pressure we did last week, but you could tell the Packers were prepared for us.  Rodgers got the ball out very quickly and kept us off balance.  There were some holding calls missed that would have forced more punts.  Rodgers made some comments about how poorly they played on offense, but I credit the overall play of the defense.  There were definitely some missed opportunities with two easy dropped INTs.  They gave us a chance to win and was proud that they didn't give up when they showed no signs of getting any support from the offense

 

2 - Defensive Tackling - If there were one thing to call out negatively about the defense, it was the amount of missed 1 on 1 tackles.  There were numerous stops in the backfield or short or first downs where the Packer found a way to break free and get extra yardage.  It was noticeable throughout the game and could have gotten the ball back for us sooner quite a few times.  Not that we would have done anything with it.

 

3 - Defensive Line - I'm seeing the threads pop up about Star being a bust again and pressure, but again, Rodgers was holding the ball for less than 2 seconds.  The line was solid and didn't start giving up chunk runs until they were gassed from being on the field all game.  Rodgers still took some shots and guys were hit in the backfield.  Again, the line was solid.

 

4 - Out of order. I'll show YOU "out of order"! You don't know what "out of order" is, Mr. Trask. I'd show you, but I'm too old, I'm too tired, I'm too !@#$ing blind. If I were the man I was five years ago, I'd take a flamethrower to this place!

 

5 - Allen - Well, I'm back off the Allen train this week. To be clear, this offensive failure was a team effort, but I can't say that I saw anything hopeful from Allen.  His Int's were all on him.  He carried the ball recklessly.  I have absolutely no idea where he was throwing the ball on the first few drives as they sailed out of bounds.  If that was him throwing the ball away, then he was bailing on plays very quickly.  Yes, he had limited time on more than a few occasions.  But with rookies, you look for throws or plays to build on going forward and I didn't see them today.  If he wasn't a top 10 pick and deemed our future savior by some, or even TT in a 17 jersey, the pitchforks would be out.  Again, this is a one game review, but I'm not seeing anything from today that puts him ahead of any of the other rookies so far.   He didn't break 100 yards passing until garbage time.

 

6 - Runningbacks - Am I crazy for thinking that Ivory should be starting and McCoy should be out there on 3rd or in multi-back formations?  Ivory hits the holes quicker and harder.  He picked up nice chunks of yards to the point where we should have kept at it with him.  I like Shady and it's nothing against him, but our offensive line and supporting cast seems to point to Ivory being the better fit right now.

 

7 - Offensive Talent - I'm getting sick of people saying how we don't have talent on our offense as a justification for why we suck.  These are NFL players getting paid millions of dollars who are the best of a NCAA program that fields thousands of players.  These are elite athletes and I refuse to believe that they just forget how to play or we are always going up against elite defenses.  Case and point, go look at the box score for the 49ers today.  Besides Pierre Garcon, tell me how many names you recognize on offense and look at what they did against the Chargers.  Talent may not be amazing here, but it's better than that.  We have much bigger problems.

 

8 - Daboll - Hello bigger problem.  First off, never run a heavy set again.  We can't execute it.  Second, either our complete lack of offensive cohesion is Allen's fault of Daboll's.  Since Allen is the rookie, it's Daboll's responsibility to create a simpler offense, quick reads, and releases.  Our offense was putrid today.  When you look back to last week and the entire season, I don' t even know why we have WR's on the roster.  We have no rhythm nor do we inspire any hope of scoring.  Daboll was my biggest head scratching decision this offseason and a quarter into the season, I'm still not seeing it.  We've score a total of 23 points in 14 quarters of play this season.  He has no history of producing a productive offense while other coaches are doing more with less.  

 

9 - McDermott - I almost didn't list McDermott because I had no problems with him this week.  It's hard to jump on him for the offense when I know it's not his background.  As the head coach though, he needs to figure it out.  The defense did as much as I would expect of them, but he sees what we all see on offense.  I'm not sure what he does at this point besides get more involved or bring someone else in to consult, but something needs to happen.  

 

10 - Losing, and then Losing - People are talking about being happy that we aren't 0-4.  I personally wouldn't care if we were 0-4 if we were seeing progress.  We've seen our defense perform to expectations since halftime against the Chargers and we've seen one half of decent offense.  Other than that, we are getting absolutely blown out.  We've only had a chance in 1 out of 4 games.  If we were competitive or losing while learning, that would be something, but I'm not seeing any of that.  The worst part is, we don't really know what the issue is.  I think it's 65% Daboll, 20% Allen, 15% Talent at this point.  But who knows.

 

 

On to the Titans next week for a game that I'm not very optimistic about anymore as they just beat two Super Bowl contenders.  I'd say I'm looking forward to another week in the Allen progression show, but who knows.  I'll be there in person with the family, so the thoughts might be late again. 

 

Go Bills!

[Gray Beard]

Good summary. I think most people on this forum have mentioned the lack of quick reads/throws in the offensive repertoire. 

I agree about Ivory getting yards out of nothing. McCoy is hurting, they should have let Ivory pound it more. 

[BillsFan130]

Agree with most. I can’t say I agree with you on the D line though.

 

Got gashed on the run pretty much all game, and really couldn’t generate much pass rush

[Virgil]

Just now, billsfan11 said:

Agree with most. I can’t say I agree with you on the D line though.

 

Got gashed on the run pretty much all game, and really couldn’t generate much pass rush

 

Watch the first few drives, no one could get in there fast enough.  As the game went on, we relented so they adapted as well.  

[BillsFan130]

1 minute ago, Virgil said:

 

Watch the first few drives, no one could get in there fast enough.  As the game went on, we relented so they adapted as well.  

I don’t know. Seemed like he had all day from the opening possession and just sat comfortably in the pocket 

[bills11]

great points the biggest cause for concern for me is daboll..theres absolutely 0 rhythm to this offence...why would mcdermott fire rick dennison then hire another coordinator

with even less nfl success calling plays..they knew they were drafting a rookie qb if any this was the time to get a veteran play caller with history of working with qbs who are successful ...todd haley was out there whos record speaks for itself ..chud was available..and darell bevell even they have achieved alot more than daboll in the nfl..so far daboll has lived up to his horrible stints before as oc in the nfl

[DallasBillsFan1]

Great read!  I would add what I noticed about Allen today ... he often stepped or scrambled to his right, INTO pressure.  So frustrating to watch.  He could have stepped up into the pocket sooner if he had presence.  Easy for me to say as an armchair QB but man, it's as if he went into pressure instead of away from it.

 

Yes, I agree on Ivory, let him play as he fits the scheme better.  Let Shady heal.  I'm not a big Shady fan and am curious when his contract is up.  I want Buffalo to have more of a Bruiser, downhill RB ... ala Blount or  Marshawn Lynch (oh wait, we traded him).

 

Turns out the Vikes were worse than we thought ....

 

 

[ganesh]

11 minutes ago, billsfan11 said:

I don’t know. Seemed like he had all day from the opening possession and just sat comfortably in the pocket 

Have ti agree..Rodgers appeared to have a good 4-5 seconds for all those plays. 

 

Also, you gave a pass to the OL.  It was putrid in pass protection.  There was jail break on almost all plays.

4 minutes ago, bills11 said:

great points the biggest cause for concern for me is daboll..theres absolutely 0 rhythm to this offence...why would mcdermott fire rick dennison then hire another coordinator

with even less nfl success calling plays..they knew they were drafting a rookie qb if any this was the time to get a veteran play caller with history of working with qbs who are successful ...todd haley was out there whos record speaks for itself ..chud was available..and darell bevell even they have achieved alot more than daboll in the nfl..so far daboll has lived up to his horrible stints before as oc in the nfl

Even Norv Turner (who is very QB friendly) was available

[JohnC]

11 minutes ago, Virgil said:

Sorry for the lateness, but I've been sick all day which has caused me to be in and out of sleep.  I also wanted to sit on my thoughts for a bit and enjoy the other games.

 

1 - Overall Defense - I think most teams would take giving up 22 points at Green Bay.  In a week where some guys showed up and others didn't, the defense looks to have kept up with their recent improvements and still showing what we hoped for in the offseason.  We didn't get the pressure we did last week, but you could tell the Packers were prepared for us.  Rodgers got the ball out very quickly and kept us off balance.  There were some holding calls missed that would have forced more punts.  Rodgers made some comments about how poorly they played on offense, but I credit the overall play of the defense.  There were definitely some missed opportunities with two easy dropped INTs.  They gave us a chance to win and was proud that they didn't give up when they showed no signs of getting any support from the offense

 

2 - Defensive Tackling - If there were one thing to call out negatively about the defense, it was the amount of missed 1 on 1 tackles.  There were numerous stops in the backfield or short or first downs where the Packer found a way to break free and get extra yardage.  It was noticeable throughout the game and could have gotten the ball back for us sooner quite a few times.  Not that we would have done anything with it.

 

3 - Defensive Line - I'm seeing the threads pop up about Star being a bust again and pressure, but again, Rodgers was holding the ball for less than 2 seconds.  The line was solid and didn't start giving up chunk runs until they were gassed from being on the field all game.  Rodgers still took some shots and guys were hit in the backfield.  Again, the line was solid.

 

4 - Out of order. I'll show YOU "out of order"! You don't know what "out of order" is, Mr. Trask. I'd show you, but I'm too old, I'm too tired, I'm too !@#$ing blind. If I were the man I was five years ago, I'd take a flamethrower to this place!

 

5 - Allen - Well, I'm back off the Allen train this week. To be clear, this offensive failure was a team effort, but I can't say that I saw anything hopeful from Allen.  His Int's were all on him.  He carried the ball recklessly.  I have absolutely no idea where he was throwing the ball on the first few drives as they sailed out of bounds.  If that was him throwing the ball away, then he was bailing on plays very quickly.  Yes, he had limited time on more than a few occasions.  But with rookies, you look for throws or plays to build on going forward and I didn't see them today.  If he wasn't a top 10 pick and deemed our future savior by some, or even TT in a 17 jersey, the pitchforks would be out.  Again, this is a one game review, but I'm not seeing anything from today that puts him ahead of any of the other rookies so far.   He didn't break 100 yards passing until garbage time.

 

6 - Runningbacks - Am I crazy for thinking that Ivory should be starting and McCoy should be out there on 3rd or in multi-back formations?  Ivory hits the holes quicker and harder.  He picked up nice chunks of yards to the point where we should have kept at it with him.  I like Shady and it's nothing against him, but our offensive line and supporting cast seems to point to Ivory being the better fit right now.

 

7 - Offensive Talent - I'm getting sick of people saying how we don't have talent on our offense as a justification for why we suck.  These are NFL players getting paid millions of dollars who are the best of a NCAA program that fields thousands of players.  These are elite athletes and I refuse to believe that they just forget how to play or we are always going up against elite defenses.  Case and point, go look at the box score for the 49ers today.  Besides Pierre Garcon, tell me how many names you recognize on offense and look at what they did against the Chargers.  Talent may not be amazing here, but it's better than that.  We have much bigger problems.

 

8 - Daboll - Hello bigger problem.  First off, never run a heavy set again.  We can't execute it.  Second, either our complete lack of offensive cohesion is Allen's fault of Daboll's.  Since Allen is the rookie, it's Daboll's responsibility to create a simpler offense, quick reads, and releases.  Our offense was putrid today.  When you look back to last week and the entire season, I don' t even know why we have WR's on the roster.  We have no rhythm nor do we inspire any hope of scoring.  Daboll was my biggest head scratching decision this offseason and a quarter into the season, I'm still not seeing it.  We've score a total of 23 points in 14 quarters of play this season.  He has no history of producing a productive offense while other coaches are doing more with less.  

 

9 - McDermott - I almost didn't list McDermott because I had no problems with him this week.  It's hard to jump on him for the offense when I know it's not his background.  As the head coach though, he needs to figure it out.  The defense did as much as I would expect of them, but he sees what we all see on offense.  I'm not sure what he does at this point besides get more involved or bring someone else in to consult, but something needs to happen.  

 

10 - Losing, and then Losing - People are talking about being happy that we aren't 0-4.  I personally wouldn't care if we were 0-4 if we were seeing progress.  We've seen our defense perform to expectations since halftime against the Chargers and we've seen one half of decent offense.  Other than that, we are getting absolutely blown out.  We've only had a chance in 1 out of 4 games.  If we were competitive or losing while learning, that would be something, but I'm not seeing any of that.  The worst part is, we don't really know what the issue is.  I think it's 65% Daboll, 20% Allen, 15% Talent at this point.  But who knows.

 

 

On to the Titans next week for a game that I'm not very optimistic about anymore as they just beat two Super Bowl contenders.  I'd say I'm looking forward to another week in the Allen progression show, but who knows.  I'll be there in person with the family, so the thoughts might be late again. 

 

Go Bills!

I hope you are feeling better.

 

Good analysis but let me me simplify it. We have a weak OL and a rookie qb is starting. At this point he doesn't have the ability to make the quick reads and accordingly react. There aren't many gaps for the backs to run through. I agree with you that a straight line runner who forcefully hits whatever hole that exists is more useful than a dancing back. 

 

You don't have to be a football aficionado to recognize that collectively our receivers are the worst unit in the league. They can't get open. When Allen gets the time and looks downfield the receivers are usually blanketed. Zay Jones is an invisible receiver. The only time he makes catches is at the end of the half when the DBs back off or at the end of the game at garbage time. Benjamin is like a tree. He simply can't move. 

 

In general, our defense is playing earnestly. In this game my complaint is that they had two to three drops that could have helped out. But because our offense is so neutered they are on the filed more than they should be. 

 

This is going to be a tough year. It's not surprising that most prognosticators predicted that the Bills would be one of the worst teams in the league. This is a stripped down team absorbing more than $50 M cap hit this year. Next year we should have a good cap amount to work with and we will have our full complement of draft picks. This is an organization that strategically made a decision to rebuild, and that is what is going on. 

 

The issue comes down to how wisely this regime uses its assets next year.  Because of the way it decided to rebuild this pummeling we are currently taking was unavoidable. Taking a step back is not easy to do. But it was a purposeful decision that hopefully will pay dividends in the near future. 

[BillsFan130]

3 minutes ago, ganesh said:

Have ti agree..Rodgers appeared to have a good 4-5 seconds for all those plays. 

 

Also, you gave a pass to the OL.  It was putrid in pass protection.  There was jail break on almost all plays.

Even Norv Turner (who is very QB friendly) was available

Yes pass protection as well. Just awful 

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

I'm mostly agreed.  But here's my thought.

 

Why aren't Shady and Ivory on the field together. They have shown that they are 2 of our better offensive weapons. With both in a formation you can play action, pound with Ivory, get the ball out in the flat to Shady, work Croom and Clay over the middle. You can be a bit unpredictable and keep the D from stacking the box.

 

I've seen none of this. I put the blame on DaBoll more than Allen. He needs to put Josh in better situations and take advantage of our strengths I thought DaBoll's strength was supposed to be a Patriots style offense taking advantage of and creating mismatches. The only mismatch I've seen is DaBoll as an OC.  

 

I'm not going to overly complain about the D. It would have been nice to get more pressure, but it's hard when someone is holding your damn jersey. Hughes could have had 3 sacks that were blatant holds not called. Milano didn't do a lot after a big week before. Losing Hyde hurt. 

 

Time for an OL shakeup. Miller needs to hit the bench. Time to find a WR who can get some separation and catch a ball. Anybody to help Allen a bit. It's probably too late to fire coaches but if I were McD, I'd be all over Robiske, Castillo and DaBoll. Grace period is over.  

 

 

Edited October 1, 2018 by BillsRdue

[LABILLBACKER]

28 minutes ago, billsfan11 said:

Agree with most. I can’t say I agree with you on the D line though.

 

Got gashed on the run pretty much all game, and really couldn’t generate much pass rush

We got burned in the running game simply because we couldn't tackle Jones. He looked like a young Marshawn Lynch out there and he just slid off all our tacklers. DaBoll should've had JA in quick read and release passes all day or screens. He didn't call the quick reads until late in the fourth quarter by then it was too late. We dropped 2 ints + a pick-6 that might have made a difference. We have the worst run-blocking offensive line in the NFL so I'm not expecting much from McCoy or Ivory this year. Josh's internal pocket timer was stupid today.  instead of stepping up in the pocket he went backwards and tried to spin out getting sacked several times ala EJM. Finally Hughes was held 5-7 times and the refs that were laughing it up with Rodgers before the game called nothing. Josh's knees were both down, another failed overturn. 4-12, wins against NYJ, Mia and Indy. Top 5 pick! Be patient as we let the process simmer...

Edited October 1, 2018 by LABILLBACKER

[NoHuddleKelly12]

26 minutes ago, Gray Beard said:

Good summary. I think most people on this forum have mentioned the lack of quick reads/throws in the offensive repertoire. 

I agree about Ivory getting yards out of nothing. McCoy is hurting, they should have let Ivory pound it more. 

Honestly is it too soon to start the “Shady may be succumbing to the inevitable 30 wall for RBs” whispering campaign? He’s shown nothing, injury or not, so far this year. I don’t want to be that guy who overreacts over nothing, but I feel like Shady’s been flying under the radar and getting a pass based on what he’s done previously. And he wasn’t even on the field for our only good offensive showing so far...

[kjack151]

6 - Runningbacks - Am I crazy for thinking that Ivory should be starting and McCoy should be out there on 3rd or in multi-back formations?  Ivory hits the holes quicker and harder.  He picked up nice chunks of yards to the point where we should have kept at it with him.  I like Shady and it's nothing against him, but our offensive line and supporting cast seems to point to Ivory being the better fit right now.

 

It appears that Ivory doesn't look for any holes to develop when he runs, but just plows ahead.  I think I saw him get the ball on a 3rd and 1, and he didn't even wait or look for a hole...just ran into the back of his lineman and didn't get the 1st down.  I haven't been encourage by our running game since Lynn was our coordinator.  

 

I too, am frustrated with our offense.  There's nothing that they do well enough that you can hang your hat on.  They don't run one play that you could call it our base play we can depend on.  

[DC Tom]

16 minutes ago, DallasBillsFan1 said:

Great read!  I would add what I noticed about Allen today ... he often stepped or scrambled to his right, INTO pressure.  So frustrating to watch.  He could have stepped up into the pocket sooner if he had presence.  Easy for me to say as an armchair QB but man, it's as if he went into pressure instead of away from it.

 

Not the least of which is because he seemed to have pressure coming from all different directions.  Which will happen when you have five lineman blocking three pass rushers out of a four-man rush.

 

I can't judge Allen by this season's performance.  This whole team is horrific.

[VW82]

I think today was about two bad teams with polar opposites at QB. If the QBs were switched I bet the score would have been 22-0 going the other direction. Keep in mind Rodgers was basically playing on one leg. Sometimes it really is that simple. 

Edited October 1, 2018 by VW82

[DRA3196]

I enjoyed reading your Game Summary Virgil. Hope you get better soon. 

 

I don't agree with your assessment with the performance of our D-line, they were gaining yards on the ground at a record clip in the 2nd and 3rd qtr. Primarily running off tackle. Once our LB's started playing their gaps and weren't dropping into their zone our run defense improved. That left the middle open and Rogers was able to take advantage with underneath throws.

 

As far as our OC is concerned, why we didn't use a quick passing game against GB like we used last week, is mind blowing. It was clear JA had no confidence the entire day. I think screens, swing passes and short throws would have not only slowed down their pass rush, but would have also helped our O-line and given Josh some confidence.

[BillsFan130]

2 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

Not the least of which is because he seemed to have pressure coming from all different directions.  Which will happen when you have five lineman blocking three pass rushers out of a four-man rush.

 

I can't judge Allen by this season's performance.  This whole team is horrific.

That’s the part that really is frustrating. It’s so hard to judge Allen this year because of the lack of talent around him.

[Virgil]

For those upset with pass protection, why isn’t Daboll adjusting with quick passes like the Packers did to us?  

 

PFF has a few of our guys ranked high in pass protection.  I just can’t throw them under the bus entirely 

[Doc Brown]

1 minute ago, Virgil said:

For those upset with pass protection, why isn’t Daboll adjusting with quick passes like the Packers did to us?  

 

PFF has a few of our guys ranked high in pass protection.  I just can’t throw them under the bus entirely 

Because he's a terrible offensive coordinator proven by previous stints in that job.