Gavin in Va Beach Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 Linked is an opinion piece, but the author makes some good points about the creation of the European Union and historical similarities with NAFTA and the immigration question being battled with border states and Mexico. Food for thought to be sure... In the spring of 1950, the foreign minister of France, Robert Schuman, proposed that France and Germany collectivize their coal and steel resources. On June 3 of that year, Belgium, France, Luxembourg, Italy the Netherlands and Germany subscribed to what became known as the Schuman Declaration, which in 1951 led to the Treaty of Paris establishing the European Coal and Steel Community. Fifty-one years later, the sale of national sovereignty was completed when most of the governments across Europe abandoned their national currencies in favor of the euro and accepted that the dictates of the unelected 17-man European Commission would thenceforth supersede national legislatures. Two score and 11 years was all it took to transform a diverse community of sovereign nations into a single oligarchic dictatorship, beginning with nothing more than the humble coordination of mining activities. The European Union is far more civilized than its Soviet namesake, for it uses banks instead of tanks to enforce its will, but the absence of a body count does not mean that the institution respects individual liberties or suffers any limits upon its power. Still, if the Europeans are shortsighted enough to allow their governments to sign them up for the de facto Fourth Reich, it's hard to find much sympathy for them – particularly when the same process has already begun here at home. Like the European Common Market, NAFTA was billed to an unsuspecting public in 1992 as a free-trade agreement, when in fact it was simply the first step toward the supra-national pan-American political entity that will be called the American Union. Or perhaps, as the current parlance has it, the Union of the Americas. Adios, America Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastaJoe Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 Nothing lasts forever. Just look at the Roman Empire. In the end we'll all be subjects of the multi-national corporations, getting fat watching Rollerball. Bread and circuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin in Va Beach Posted March 21, 2005 Author Share Posted March 21, 2005 Nothing lasts forever. Just look at the Roman Empire. In the end we'll all be subjects of the multi-national corporations, getting fat watching Rollerball. Bread and circuses. 282323[/snapback] Think global government (imagine the UN in charge of the world) is an inevitability? I used to be vehemently against that idea...now I'm not so sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tux of Borg Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 If you believe in the ramblings of John Titor, the US will break out in Civil War this year. We're Doomed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 Think global government (imagine the UN in charge of the world) is an inevitability? I used to be vehemently against that idea...now I'm not so sure. 282332[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 If you believe in the ramblings of John Titor, the US will break out in Civil War this year. We're Doomed! 282421[/snapback] I don't believe anything that hasn't been researched using the Bible Code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 If you believe in the ramblings of John Titor, the US will break out in Civil War this year. We're Doomed! 282421[/snapback] I read that Titor stuff too. I'm certainly not saying I believe any of it, but it did make for some pretty fascinating reading - until I saw the time machine. That seemed plain funny. But hey, what do I know about astrophysics and wormholes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastaJoe Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 Think global government (imagine the UN in charge of the world) is an inevitability? I used to be vehemently against that idea...now I'm not so sure. I think as national and natural resources dwindle (oil, clean water), and religious fundamentalists from all major religions gain influence, there will be regional conflicts which will result in nations merging either by choice or by force, and eventually there will be a few mega-countries that will be ruled by the corporate elite who control the resources and the fundamentalists who mislead the public, who will cooperate for their common benefit of keeping power and control over the masses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNRed Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 Think global government (imagine the UN in charge of the world) is an inevitability? I used to be vehemently against that idea...now I'm not so sure. 282332[/snapback] You want the UN in charge of the world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 Linked is an opinion piece, but the author makes some good points about the creation of the European Union and historical similarities with NAFTA and the immigration question being battled with border states and Mexico. Food for thought to be sure...Adios, America 282045[/snapback] The idea of free trade with Mexico and Canada still makes sense. Mexico is a source cheap labor. Canada has enormous natural resouorces, and we share a lot of border. The US still has unparalleled brainpower and money. We each bring something of value. I'm no fan of a UN supergovernment, but I'd like to see more free trade everywhere. Realistically, that won't happen without some UN-like free-trade treaty. I think such a treaty is a long way from a one world government. NAFTA and the EU and many of these treaties were better than the tarriff-laden systems that they replaced. Free(er) trade is good. NAFTA was an imperfect step in the right direction. The EU is an enourmous trading block that WILL surpass the economic GDP of the US in the next few years, probably because it's such a diverse trading block. [Plus, it's nice for them that they don't have to defend themselves- we do it for them. (Darin... still got those numbers?) How much do we give to NATO... to help the 8 Trillion dollar/year EU economy defend itself? Some absurd amount. ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 The idea of free trade with Mexico and Canada still makes sense. Mexico is a source cheap labor. Canada has enormous natural resouorces, and we share a lot of border. The US still has unparalleled brainpower and money. We each bring something of value. I'm no fan of a UN supergovernment, but I'd like to see more free trade everywhere. Realistically, that won't happen without some UN-like free-trade treaty. I think such a treaty is a long way from a one world government. NAFTA and the EU and many of these treaties were better than the tarriff-laden systems that they replaced. Free(er) trade is good. NAFTA was an imperfect step in the right direction. The EU is an enourmous trading block that WILL surpass the economic GDP of the US in the next few years, probably because it's such a diverse trading block. [Plus, it's nice for them that they don't have to defend themselves- we do it for them. (Darin... still got those numbers?) How much do we give to NATO... to help the 8 Trillion dollar/year EU economy defend itself? Some absurd amount. ] 282472[/snapback] Exactly. Anyone who competes with us econiomically should NOT have the benefit of our protection,. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 [Plus, it's nice for them that they don't have to defend themselves- we do it for them. (Darin... still got those numbers?) How much do we give to NATO... to help the 8 Trillion dollar/year EU economy defend itself? Some absurd amount. ] 282472[/snapback] I imagine the money being pumped into NATO is viewed as an investment of some kind. I don't know what dividends it pays - perhaps it's so we can pressure member-nations to back us on certain military or political initiatives? I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if it's like the post-WWI house of cards where we kept pumping money into Europe so that they could continue to manufacture, sell, and buy (American) products to keep their economies propped up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 I imagine the money being pumped into NATO is viewed as an investment of some kind. I don't know what dividends it pays - perhaps it's so we can pressure member-nations to back us on certain military or political initiatives? I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if it's like the post-WWI house of cards where we kept pumping money into Europe so that they could continue to manufacture, sell, and buy (American) products to keep their economies propped up. 282507[/snapback] Well, seeing as the Euros are hardly supportive of us, I'd say it's time to turn off the funding. Let them manage on their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 Well, seeing as the Euros are hardly supportive of us, I'd say it's time to turn off the funding. Let them manage on their own. 282512[/snapback] But if in response, they cut us off and then their economy collapses, we'll be stuck with Mexican, Canadien, and domestic beer, and I like to drink a good import from time-to-time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 But if in response, they cut us off and then their economy collapses, we'll be stuck with Mexican, Canadien, and domestic beer, and I like to drink a good import from time-to-time. 282522[/snapback] Maybe we can make Belgium a state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 Maybe we can make Belgium a state. 282527[/snapback] Sounds like a plan. Damn I wish I voted for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 Sounds like a plan. Damn I wish I voted for you! 282529[/snapback] I tried to get you to vote for me. You refused to accept anyone other than Kerry. I had the same platform as Kerry, "I'm not Bush." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 I don't have the current costs available at this point and there are plans at the current time to reallocate our current European assets to other parts of the globe. Whether that happens or not is anyone's guess. The last time I looked, the US was paying about 25% of the total cost of NATO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 If you believe in the ramblings of John Titor, the US will break out in Civil War this year. We're Doomed! 282421[/snapback] We're too damned lazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 We're too damned lazy. 282664[/snapback] Exactly... Not ripe yet. Just hope they can keep all the fat arses on the couch and "Life is Good" apparel on and there won't be a problem. The new kinder, gentler Nazism (there I said it )... Fat and stupid on the couch! "Hey, was that my neighbor that just ate himself into coronary disease? I didn't see anything... I don't know what you are talking about?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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