Bangarang Posted September 28, 2018 Posted September 28, 2018 10 hours ago, billspro said: At least LA throws a lot of intermediate passes. New England has been the most boring team to watch for years with their unstoppable 5 yard passes. I would gladly settle with boring if it meant years of division titles and Super Bowl victories. That’s just me though.
sleeby Posted September 28, 2018 Posted September 28, 2018 1 hour ago, BillsVet said: I doubt the NFL would do ever anything to hinder the passing game. They have to love these shoot-outs just like MLB loves the HR. Or the NBA which is predominantly dunks and 3 pointers. It's what gets fans' attention. At some point, I have to wonder if some HC and GM would see the wisdom in putting together a team that isn't predicated on throwing the ball, but is good enough doing that. Defenses are playing more 6 guys in the box and 5 DB sets, so it would make sense that someone eventually builds an offense which can punish those smaller LBs and DBs who are on the field to play the pass. Belicheck seemed to use LeGarrette Blount like this a few years ago. His initials are RR (as are those of his equally idiotic brother); please do not say the name - ever.
co_springs_billsfan Posted September 28, 2018 Posted September 28, 2018 (edited) We're building a bully edit: I apologize if this caused anyone to throw up Edited September 28, 2018 by co_springs_billsfan 1
sleeby Posted September 28, 2018 Posted September 28, 2018 (edited) A bit curious that this thread is in a bills forum - we have not had a strong passing game in recent years and had a top RB and running QB. The stats above do show the opening comment to be wrong or greatly exaggerated - not discounting the poster - yet most of us do see this trend. Maybe it has to do with the games being widely televised are more often top passing teams? Or when two medicore teams play it's regional coverage only? And maybe newer products such as red zone coverage which is not showing the 4 yard run that was not for 6 points are also causing this perception? Anyhow, passing is the future for sure as mentioned already - most fans like it. QB and WR protections are also only going to increase, not only for sales but also for the brain damage law suits from former players. Edit - and the DH is never going away in MLB. Not a chance. Edited September 28, 2018 by sleeby
Jrb1979 Posted September 28, 2018 Posted September 28, 2018 It seems like the ones that hate the way the game is now are the fans who lived through the Rockpile days. The way the game is played now it makes me question why the Bills have seemed to hire defensive minded coaches. Its not a blue collar game anymore. For some reason a lot of Bills fans don't want a team that throws the ball up and down the field.
BillsFan130 Posted September 28, 2018 Posted September 28, 2018 I don't understand why the NFL wants these crazy high scoring games with lots of flags. My guess is to cater to the younger generation and fantasy football? Amongst other reasons for sure. The odd game where it is 38-31 is really cool, but now it seems like every week there are a couple games with those scores. I remember when a field goal actually used to be important.. Now it seems like if you get a field goal, it is just an average drive. 1
Cash Posted September 28, 2018 Posted September 28, 2018 10 hours ago, metzelaars_lives said: I agree 100%. I'm saying that is changing right now as we speak. I actually just looked up on football reference and while everything is of course trending toward more pass attempts, more passing yards, less rushing attempts, yards, etc., the numbers are not as staggeringly different as I thought they might be, or at least how it feels. Perhaps things will change when it gets colder/closer to playoff time but right now it's seriously like, what is the point of running the ball ever? But FWIW, the Super Bowl last year was another one of these arena league games like tonight. I think your reaction is a little bit recency bias, especially given the nature of last night's game. Yeah, the numbers have slowly been trending towards passing basically forever, but it's a gradual change. I'll put the 1992 Bills-49ers game with no punts up against any shootout from the last few years. Those kinds of games are definitely more common now, but it's not like they never happened back in the day. A lot of it has always been hyper-conservative coaching. I also took a look at pro football reference, to compare net yards/pass (penalizes sacks) vs. yards/run over the years. I don't have all day, so I just picked a few years here and there. I also put PFR's adjusted net yards/attempt (ANY/A) in parentheses. This accounts for sacks and interceptions, so it's a more fair comparison to account for the higher risk of a turnover when passing. 2017: 4.1 rush, 6.1 pass (5.9 adjusted) 2012: 4.3 rush, 6.2 pass (5.9) 2007: 4.1 rush, 6.0 pass (5.5) 2002: 4.2 rush, 5.9 pass (5.3) 1997: 4.0 rush, 5.7 pass (5.2) 1992: 4.0 rush, 5.8 pass (4.9) 1982: 3.8 rush, 5.8 pass (4.8) 1972: 4.1 rush, 5.7 pass (4.3) The pass efficiency has gone up while running has stayed roughly flat, but you have to go back to the 70s to find a time when they were about equally efficient. Even in 1982 (before Kelly/Marino/Elway came in), it was a full yard per play better to pass than run! Teams should've been passing like 60% of the time back then instead of 50%. Unfortunately for you, the pass/run ratio is likely to only go up as more coaches realize that you get better overall results that way. If there's any consolation, I can point to the CFL. There you only have 3 downs instead of 4 (still 10 yards to gain), and receivers are allowed to be moving forward at the snap, so it's always been extremely pass-heavy. But teams still run, and not just at the goal line. Granted, it's like 20% of the time, but the run game is still a real part of the game.
sleeby Posted September 28, 2018 Posted September 28, 2018 (edited) If I had a team i would train my eligable receivers and QBs to become experts at drawing the pass interference flags against their defenders. Everything from tricks which cause the other team to foul or how to position yourself to likely be fouled else appear to have fouled to smack talking the secondary all day. Then throw deep a lot - maybe even barely uncatchable passes that cannot be intercepted in bounds. Cheap - but make the rules work for you. The PI penalty is far too powerful to not exploit. Grab an extra 100 yards a game just from magic tricks. Ha. Edited September 28, 2018 by sleeby
blacklabel Posted September 28, 2018 Posted September 28, 2018 It's just the way the league wants things to be. All the rules instated to protect the QBs and give the defense a disadvantage is so the "stars of the game" can go out there and sling it for 400+ yards and 4 TDs every week. But besides that, guys like McVay and Andy Reid are extremely smart schemers. And they're merging a lot of college concepts with pro concepts to make things easier for their young QBs. Goff was on fire last night but I'm not sure I've ever seen so many wide open targets in a game. Play after play guys were 2-3 steps ahead of the coverage and open on pretty much every area of the field. I gotta think at least part of that is because the Vikings defense is a touch overrated. The Bills don't have a fraction of the playmakers the Rams do and put up 27 points in two and a half quarters. I had a thought last night that's gonna sound all kinds of conspiracy theory-ish, which isn't really what I'm aiming for, I'm not one to say, "It's all rigged! It's all fixed!" I don't think that but sometimes I see things that make me wonder if things are, let's say, "directed' in a certain way. What better way to drum up interest in a town that really doesn't give too much of a crap about pro football (Los Angeles) than by loading up their new team with monster playermakers and a young, innovative coach. What better way to maintain interest in football in a post-9/11 world than by having a team named the Patriots be the dynasty of the 2000s and again in the 2010s? Again, not trying to say "conspiracy!" I just wonder if things happen to "fall into place" real conveniently sometimes.
Chuck Wagon Posted September 28, 2018 Posted September 28, 2018 (edited) "I can't understand what's happening to the NFL. Must be all the pansy liberal millennials needing to see points point points to be entertained. All I just want to see is a full back slam into a linebacker, the running back get 3 yards and then punts. Remember punts? Used to be a game changer, a good punt down inside the 5. Now I see this Rams coach line up for 4th down late in the game or the Eagles go for 4th down in the Super Bowl and I DO NOT KNOW WHATS HAPPENING!! Don't give me this mularky about spread offenses, that's not my NFL. If a receiver goes over the middle he needs to go off on a stretcher, that's the NFL I love. They've ruined my game. Now excuse me, but I'm going to flip over to NASCAR to see if there are any good car wrecks." Edited September 28, 2018 by Chuck Wagon
metzelaars_lives Posted September 28, 2018 Author Posted September 28, 2018 9 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said: "I can't understand what's happening to the NFL. Must be all the pansy liberal millennials needing to see points point points to be entertained. All I just want to see is a full back slam into a linebacker, the running back get 3 yards and then punts. Remember punts? Used to be a game changer, a good punt down inside the 5. Now I see this Rams coach line up for 4th down late in the game or the Eagles go for 4th down in the Super Bowl and I DO NOT KNOW WHATS HAPPENING!! Don't give me this mularky about spread offenses, that's not my NFL. If a receiver goes over the middle he needs to go off on a stretcher, that's the NFL I love. They've ruined my game. Now excuse me, but I'm going to flip over to NASCAR to see if there are any good car wrecks." Dude I am the most liberal person on this entire website. Nice attempt at satire though.
metzelaars_lives Posted September 28, 2018 Author Posted September 28, 2018 (edited) 13 hours ago, Gugny said: Through 3 weeks (plus last night), the average points scored per team/per game is 22. For all of 2017 (regular season), the average points scored per team/per game was 23. I think we saw two very good QBs on display last night. I don't know what the statistics for average yards of offense/team are - but my guess is that teams are definitely moving the ball more (as NFL defenses continue to be castrated). The difference with teams with good QBs is more touchdowns and less FGs/turnovers in the red zone - hence the higher score last night. There was also some ****ty officiating last night (and throughout the league) that contributed to keeping drives alive. This is not accurate. Although again, I am the first to concede that the numbers do not look as staggeringly different as the game feels to me. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/NFL/scoring.htm Edited September 29, 2018 by metzelaars_lives
Protocal69 Posted September 28, 2018 Posted September 28, 2018 No worries bro. Just wait until the temp drops. All these noddle arm QBs will come back to reality. Think Ryan Fitzpatrick
metzelaars_lives Posted September 28, 2018 Author Posted September 28, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, Chuck Wagon said: Then stop watching. I thought the last two primetime games have been very entertaining. Only place you are going to see I formation with a fullback is on NFL Films. It's got more to do with scheme than making the rules harsher. ? No. I love baseball. I don't like guys who hit 40 HR's and strike out 200 times and the fact that strikeouts across the board are inflated but I still love baseball. So when the New Jersey Devils ruined hockey with the trap (essentially doing the reverse of what's happening in the NFL), I'm assuming you stopped watching? Not sure why we can't have a friendly conversation about how the game we all love has so blatantly changed. Edited September 28, 2018 by metzelaars_lives
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 28, 2018 Posted September 28, 2018 2 hours ago, metzelaars_lives said: Goff was gashing them for more than that. My point is that whether Gurley was running effectively or not, they didn’t really need him to. Everyone in the stadium can know that a guy is passing every play now and they can be just as effective, regardless of whether they have established a running game. You see it all the time. *shrug* I don't happen to believe that's quite true. Like McDermott, I need to look at the film (heh) but I think if the Vikes weren't trying desperately to contain Gurley, Goff wouldn't have been able to gash them so badly. I think what the Vikes were doing at least initially was something kind of similar to what we did against the Ravens and got gashed for - scheme allowed the linebackers to play up, leaving space between the DB and the line that Goff systematically exploited. Even so if it weren't for a ticky-tack defensive hold, the Vikes would have forced a punt on their first drive. What I don't like is the way the refs are influencing the outcome of games so much, even though our Bills have benefited.
Chuck Wagon Posted September 28, 2018 Posted September 28, 2018 59 minutes ago, metzelaars_lives said: ? No. I love baseball. I don't like guys who hit 40 HR's and strike out 200 times and the fact that strikeouts across the board are inflated but I still love baseball. So when the New Jersey Devils ruined hockey with the trap (essentially doing the reverse of what's happening in the NFL), I'm assuming you stopped watching? Not sure why we can't have a friendly conversation about how the game we all love has so blatantly changed. Largely, I simply don't agree that it's been rules changes that's resulted in the offense explosion. I'm not going to pretend they've hurt it, they've definitely helped. IMO it' s more scheme that's flown up from college football. Everyone's favorite acronym, the RPO, NFL offenses are running spread concepts, putting guys in space and it's putting insane stress on defenses. We've seen glimpses in the past, our K-Gun, "the Greatest Show on Turf", the 2007 Pats. But college football has been like this for several years now and it's really hitting the NFL in full stride. Simply put, it's more efficient football than what some here are longing for in the "good old days".
KW95 - JA17 Posted September 28, 2018 Posted September 28, 2018 Ya, those 1 yard running plays in a pile of 300 pound men are exciting....
That's No Moon Posted September 28, 2018 Posted September 28, 2018 17 hours ago, metzelaars_lives said: I am like half gay for Josh Allen. So...just the tip then?
metzelaars_lives Posted September 29, 2018 Author Posted September 29, 2018 7 hours ago, Chuck Wagon said: Largely, I simply don't agree that it's been rules changes that's resulted in the offense explosion. I'm not going to pretend they've hurt it, they've definitely helped. IMO it' s more scheme that's flown up from college football. Everyone's favorite acronym, the RPO, NFL offenses are running spread concepts, putting guys in space and it's putting insane stress on defenses. We've seen glimpses in the past, our K-Gun, "the Greatest Show on Turf", the 2007 Pats. But college football has been like this for several years now and it's really hitting the NFL in full stride. Simply put, it's more efficient football than what some here are longing for in the "good old days". Yes, I agree that passing every play is more efficient than running. That was kinda like the point of my post. And as other people have pointed out, that’s probably always been the case. But QB’s being way better now, coupled with rule changes designed to bolster offense, has changed the way the game looks and I don’t like it as much. That doesn’t make me a NASCAR fan?
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