JoeFerguson Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 You're drawing conclusions from ONE incident (or 4, if you want to take the entire plan and expand it). So in the past 30 years, there's been ONE attack. Non-muslim terrorists? How about Atlanta olympics? Unibomber? Oklahoma City? That's three. Even if you count 9/11 as four separate incidents, that's still only a 4-3 ratio and hardly something to draw conclusions on. Oh, those three don't count because it wasn't on a plane. CW 282276[/snapback] In light of this thread, yes they don't count. The thread is about air travel. And I would have to say that those attacks don't even come close to the number of deaths from 9/11, so I would say that even though 9/11 was one incident, it's weighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 Oh hell no, I wouldn't say that! If the first web page I happened to pull up had Cromwell (to take you back a few hundred years) or Bloody Sunday on it, I would have used those. I was only proving a point that terrorism isn't exclusive to whack-job Muslims, whack-job Christians can be just as bad, regardless of denomination. 282273[/snapback] I saw your point. In case somepeople didnt know that, I thought clarification would be a good idea for some of the young'ins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 Those are all examples in the UK and do not involve hijacking planes. Those do not affect my life directly and definitely do not apply to the discussion that this thread originally dealt with. Is it unfair to say that all terrorists are Muslims? Obviously it is. The point that I am trying to defend is that I don't think someone should be criticized for skeptically watching an person of Arab descent while on a domestic flight in the U.S. Maybe it is a bit discriminatory, but when is the last time a redheaded Irish guy flew a plane into a skyscraper in the U.S.? When the thread is about flying on planes in the USA, then I think you should be able to say without any ridicule that most terrorists who hijack planes are Muslims. 282263[/snapback] So what are you saying? That the comment "most terrorists are Muslim" should have really said "most terrorists who've hijacked a plane within the United States and have flown them into buildings on or about September of 2001 are Muslims"? If that's what was meant, then I'd agree. But that's not what was said, and not being a mind-reader, I can only address what was said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofiba Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 You're drawing conclusions from ONE incident (or 4, if you want to take the entire plan and expand it). So in the past 30 years, there's been ONE attack. Non-muslim terrorists? How about Atlanta olympics? Unibomber? Oklahoma City? That's three. Even if you count 9/11 as four separate incidents, that's still only a 4-3 ratio and hardly something to draw conclusions on. Oh, those three don't count because it wasn't on a plane. CW 282276[/snapback] They key here is US airplane hijacking. That is what we are talking about. I'm not arguing that muslims are the only terrorists, or even that they should be treated differently by airlines. All I am saying is it's not racist or insane for someone to keep an eye out for any arabs on a plane. Stojan never said he punches out all muslims as soon as they walk on board. I'd assume he treats them just like everyone else if they act natural. He simply said that he knows where they are because he thinks they are most likely to hijack a plane. Based on the last and ONLY hijacking and crashing of a US plane, I'd say he's right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 Have anything to back that up with? Or you just using anecdotal evidence you get from the media? Oklahoma ring any bells? CW 282213[/snapback] Oklahoma City sets off bells. The other hundred some-odd terrorist acts done at the hands of Muslim Extremists sets off whole Orchestras. Sorry, but the exception is NOT the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 Do you have a link for that data? I'd like to know what the acronyms stand for. And how many of those attacks involve hijacking airplanes. 282278[/snapback] The only one attacking airports and airlines was BP, in which all of their attacks were directed in that fashion. Terrorism Database If we are only going to limit this discussion to hijacking of airplanes, they we are perpetuating the reason why the attacks happened in the first place: "There is no way that anyone could hijack an airplane and use it as a weapon to bring the WTC to the ground." Also, by focusing on only religious-based reasons for terrorism, we are doing the same thing. As the data shows, there have been numerous terrorist attacks on U.S. soil since 1968, and this does not include non-organizational terrorist attacks (Oklahoma City, Atlanta, etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewin Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 "Please God, not next to me" Look - Southwest only. 282145[/snapback] Speaking of Southwest and behavior at airports - does anything bring civilized behavior for mass transportation back to the stone age more than a plane with no seat assignments and people herding and pushing to get in line to be the first on the plane - or camping out and laying on the ground for an hour before boarding in the the middle of an airport terminal like a small village of homeless vagrant flyers in order to be in line and get the seat they want? I did finally get smart and realized you can print a boarding pass starting at 12:01 AM on the day you fly to get one of the precious 'A' seat assignments. Flew Southwest last week - and I was online at 12:01 AM so at least I knew I could get my family on the plane so my young kids could sit near me. BTW - interesting side story - on the return trip to Tampa got stopped by security - said they detected a large pair of scissors in our carry-on luggage. We didn't know what they were talking about - was all the same stuff we had taken on our arriving flight and we had no problem getting through security then. Turns out in fact we did have a very large pair of scissors we had completely forgotten about - was completely missed by the screeners in Raleigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeFerguson Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 The only one attacking airports and airlines was BP, in which all of their attacks were directed in that fashion. Terrorism Database If we are only going to limit this discussion to hijacking of airplanes, they we are perpetuating the reason why the attacks happened in the first place: "There is no way that anyone could hijack an airplane and use it as a weapon to bring the WTC to the ground." Also, by focusing on only religious-based reasons for terrorism, we are doing the same thing. As the data shows, there have been numerous terrorist attacks on U.S. soil since 1968, and this does not include non-organizational terrorist attacks (Oklahoma City, Atlanta, etc). 282292[/snapback] When I originally contributed to this thread, I was simply expressing my disgust with the way people behave in an airport. That was what the thread was about. Then somehow or another this thread got twisted into a debate over the nationality of terrorists. I participated in this debate, while still trying to keep with the theme of the thread, which I thought was, "Frustrations involving airplane travel". When I suggested that all terrorists were Muslims, of course I meant all terrorists who hijacked planes in the US and crashed them into buildings. REMEMBER, I was trying to remain within the confines of the theme of the thread. Somewhere during this debate, the freaking thread got moved to PPP. Now the thread is about this history of terrorism, preventing terrorism, and not stereotyping people based on religion/ethnicity. All I ever wanted to do was complain about people who annoy me on the plane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 They key here is US airplane hijacking. That is what we are talking about. I'm not arguing that muslims are the only terrorists, or even that they should be treated differently by airlines. All I am saying is it's not racist or insane for someone to keep an eye out for any arabs on a plane. Stojan never said he punches out all muslims as soon as they walk on board. I'd assume he treats them just like everyone else if they act natural. He simply said that he knows where they are because he thinks they are most likely to hijack a plane. Based on the last and ONLY hijacking and crashing of a US plane, I'd say he's right. 282290[/snapback] I must agree here. While I find racial profiling to be a dabasing, deploarable, act of bigotry, I to , however,fall into this category. As I mentioned, I fly into the UK quite often, and see the lack of tight security that we have in the US.I too notice where the folks are who appear to be from the middle east, or middle east desent, and note where they are sitting At heathrow, the metal detectors are not near as sensitive as here in the US. I regularly walk through the metal detectors in the UK with two or three lighters in my pockets, shoes on, and without the PC having to come out of the bag. My flight last week was a good case of this. Somewhere over the Atlantic, I went to use the loo and the occupied sign was on. After about 15 minutes. I started to look around and noticed the one one dude who caught my eye was not in his seat, and I went directly to the attendant and said this is starting to get me worried. Long story short, there was a valid reason the guy was in there so long. And, had it been someone else I would not have been alarmed. But, I also do not feel bad or ashamed that I had the situation checked out and that this man suffered some embarrasment.. It is not a perfect world we live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweet baboo Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 I don't know about the rest of you, but every time I fly, I'm always ready to tackle the living sh-- outta anyone who acts like this. F-ck this guy... http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/03/21/passenger...h.ap/index.html 282010[/snapback] someone's still going to sue someone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Tate Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 BTW - interesting side story - on the return trip to Tampa got stopped by security - said they detected a large pair of scissors in our carry-on luggage. We didn't know what they were talking about - was all the same stuff we had taken on our arriving flight and we had no problem getting through security then. Turns out in fact we did have a very large pair of scissors we had completely forgotten about - was completely missed by the screeners in Raleigh. 282299[/snapback] Barry? Barry Switzer? Is that you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 When I originally contributed to this thread, I was simply expressing my disgust with the way people behave in an airport. That was what the thread was about. Then somehow or another this thread got twisted into a debate over the nationality of terrorists. I participated in this debate, while still trying to keep with the theme of the thread, which I thought was, "Frustrations involving airplane travel". When I suggested that all terrorists were Muslims, of course I meant all terrorists who hijacked planes in the US and crashed them into buildings. REMEMBER, I was trying to remain within the confines of the theme of the thread. Somewhere during this debate, the freaking thread got moved to PPP. Now the thread is about this history of terrorism, preventing terrorism, and not stereotyping people based on religion/ethnicity. All I ever wanted to do was complain about people who annoy me on the plane. 282309[/snapback] When you make a statement like "In the past 30 years, besides Tim McVeigh, name the other non-Muslim terrorists," you need to realize that people are going to address the question you asked. If you wanted, as Campy pointed out, "terrorist attacks by non-muslims by flying airplanes into the WTC" then you should have said that. You mentioned McVeigh who did not use an airplane in his attack. If you wanted to relegate to airplanes, why did you use McVeigh in your argument? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeFerguson Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 When you make a statement like "In the past 30 years, besides Tim McVeigh, name the other non-Muslim terrorists," you need to realize that people are going to address the question you asked. If you wanted, as Campy pointed out, "terrorist attacks by non-muslims by flying airplanes into the WTC" then you should have said that. You mentioned McVeigh who did not use an airplane in his attack. If you wanted to relegate to airplanes, why did you use McVeigh in your argument? 282327[/snapback] The only reason I mentioned McVeigh was because I was responding to Fezmid's comment about Oklahoma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 When I suggested that all terrorists were Muslims, of course I meant all terrorists who hijacked planes in the US and crashed them into buildings. So this doesn't count, right? http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/01/05/tampa.crash/ You probably meant to say "all terrorists who hijacked LARGE Planes in the US and crashed them into buildings." CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofiba Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 So this doesn't count, right? http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/01/05/tampa.crash/ You probably meant to say "all terrorists who hijacked LARGE Planes in the US and crashed them into buildings." CW 282337[/snapback] Oh come on. We're talking about commercial airlines that people board and fly, not these tiny things people take for flying lessons. If you have ever bought a ticket and been a passanger in one of those things, then you can count it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 So this doesn't count, right? http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/01/05/tampa.crash/ You probably meant to say "all terrorists who hijacked LARGE Planes in the US and crashed them into buildings." CW 282337[/snapback] I would say no, because it wasn't a terrorist attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeFerguson Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 So this doesn't count, right? http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/01/05/tampa.crash/ You probably meant to say "all terrorists who hijacked LARGE Planes in the US and crashed them into buildings." CW 282337[/snapback] I guess I will have to watch out for 15 year old kids the next time I fly in a Cessna 172. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofiba Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 I would say no, because it wasn't a terrorist attack. 282340[/snapback] I think the real question is, "How many acts of terrorism would have occured in the past 30 years had KRC been president all along?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Tate Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 So this doesn't count, right? http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/01/05/tampa.crash/ You probably meant to say "all terrorists who hijacked LARGE Planes in the US and crashed them into buildings." CW 282337[/snapback] Doesn't count. Not a terrorist act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gross Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 http://www.wben.com/onair/bauerle/terrorintheskies.php 282236[/snapback] http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/skyterror.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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