Campy Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 The Permanent Fund Dividend is the royalties paid to Alaskan citizens for the right to our resources. 285298[/snapback] Hold on... There are buttloads of federal buildings in Virginia. There are 10 military installations including all branches of the US Armed Forces, CIA, and NATO within just 25 miles of my house. We Virginians are also deprived of our natural resources, eg deep water ports. Where's our money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 Hold on... There are buttloads of federal buildings in Virginia. There are 10 military installations including all branches of the US Armed Forces, CIA, and NATO within just 25 miles of my house. We Virginians are also deprived of our natural resources, eg deep water ports. Where's our money? 285309[/snapback] It's like ordering fries and getting onion rings..................screwed, thats what it is. Hell, where's my dividend here in Florida? I should have got a Chad dividend. Or for that matter, dealing with all these nut bag tourists. I want my money!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 Oh yes, because there are SO MANY Einsteins and Edisons out there ...DOH!. Those people are few and far between and make life better for the rest of us. They are WELL COMPENSATED (bill Gates, Michael Dell, etc) for their innovation,risk taking, and ingenuity. But MOST PEOPLE are not Bill Gates. By Your thinking, no one but the intellectual elite deserves any shot at a good living. Such a society cannot and does not exist. But the fact is that the richest 1% of Americans control a hugely disproportionate share of the wealth-the largest in US history and newsflash...it's growing every year. The Middle class that is the backbone of our society is shrinking every year. Now raise your hand and tell me you think that is a good thing. This fact disproves the anti-union rant. If companies are "going broke" why are the super-rich continuing to get richer? Because benefits and pay to average middle class workers is shrinking. Largely due to the demise of unions. Those without unions are now angry at those with. Exactly what the elite want. Get them fighting amongst themselves and they'll ignore the real problem. The Money is out there. Greed is a productive human trait to a point. When it overwhelms to the point that enough is never enough, well that's the demise of civilization as we know it. By your logic, everyone should be an entrepreneur. That obviously is not realistic. Is everyone on this board a multi millionaire, or do they just like to "pretend" that they are? What have you invented today? 284824[/snapback] That was my point. Thank you for saving me sometime. We need a strong, healthy middle-class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 That's actually only one small factor. But don't let that get in the way of your "pro-union" rant. 284851[/snapback] What is wrong with using unions as a lobbying voice? In today's political climate, who's out there making sure your voice is heard in mass? Don't you join organizations like the NRA for the same reasons I opt to join a union (and yes, I have a choice being a federal worker in a wage grade system and agency where a local exists)? Who would be there to hear our voice? Sure I would like to change as much as you do. I just prefer to be a realist and work within the system. If you want to call that a lemming, so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 Tax free? Nope. I get a 1099 every year to pay taxes on. The Permanent Fund Dividend is the royalties paid to Alaskan citizens for the right to our resources. Currently the fund is worth over $30,000,000,000.00. The dividend is the annual payout of the income the fund generates based on a complicated formula. It fluctuates every year. It has been as high as $1963.86 per qualified citizen (meaning a family of 4 would get a deposit of nearly $8K). It's one of the shining examples of government by the people, for the people. 285298[/snapback] No. It is a shining example what can be done when some place has: NATURAL RESOURCES. Oil makes the world go around today. You are lucky to have it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 Hold on... There are buttloads of federal buildings in Virginia. There are 10 military installations including all branches of the US Armed Forces, CIA, and NATO within just 25 miles of my house. We Virginians are also deprived of our natural resources, eg deep water ports. Where's our money? 285309[/snapback] Ya! I watch millions of dollars in grain and other local commodites float by daily! Where is my cash? I bet if there was 550K people living in the Land of Lincoln, I'd see some of that money? ONLY KIDDING! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 24, 2005 Author Share Posted March 24, 2005 That was my point. Thank you for saving me sometime. We need a strong, healthy middle-class. 285520[/snapback] Again, why is it NOT realistic to consider everyone an Entrpeneur? We all have something to sell: our abilities. If someone has less ability than someone else, he or she should be paid less. That's the way CAPITALISM works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobody Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 No. It is a shining example what can be done when some place has: NATURAL RESOURCES. Oil makes the world go around today. You are lucky to have it! 285523[/snapback] Generally you will find that these payouts occur throughout the US (ex. gas co puts a well on your property to tap natural gas deposit) - but they are paid to the indvidual property owner rather then every person in the state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 Again, why is it NOT realistic to consider everyone an Entrpeneur? We all have something to sell: our abilities. If someone has less ability than someone else, he or she should be paid less. That's the way CAPITALISM works. 285588[/snapback] You can "consider" yourself an entrepreneur, but you are not one unless you own your own business. It is not realistic that everyone in a society would own their own business.Most will work for someone else or some other entity. The worker will always make less than the owner, obviously. That is capitalism. The issue Joe is HOW MUCH less? I'm not saying Unions are without flaws. But business will always try to get away with paying the least that it has to, leaving more for the owner. Hence the need for unions, to force them to pay what is fair. They won't do it on their own. Benefits that were common years ago have vanished with the unions. Not because companies can't pay them, they just don't want to. The gap between the middle class and super rich is growing. Unions are not designed to "protect the lazy man" they are designed to bargain for the most advantageous compensation possible. Strength in numbers. If you screw up you will still be fired. The union will argue your case for you, but they cannot change facts. A union does not mean you are guaranteed your job. Some try to hide behind them and "coast" but that is not by design of the union. That is a character flaw of an individual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 You can "consider" yourself an entrepreneur, but you are not one unless you own your own business. It is not realistic that everyone in a society would own their own business.Most will work for someone else or some other entity. The worker will always make less than the owner, obviously. That is capitalism. The issue Joe is HOW MUCH less? I'm not saying Unions are without flaws. But business will always try to get away with paying the least that it has to, leaving more for the owner. Hence the need for unions, to force them to pay what is fair. They won't do it on their own. Benefits that were common years ago have vanished with the unions. Not because companies can't pay them, they just don't want to. The gap between the middle class and super rich is growing. Unions are not designed to "protect the lazy man" they are designed to bargain for the most advantageous compensation possible. Strength in numbers. If you screw up you will still be fired. The union will argue your case for you, but they cannot change facts. A union does not mean you are guaranteed your job. Some try to hide behind them and "coast" but that is not by design of the union. That is a character flaw of an individual. 286738[/snapback] OK, now we know your position is Unions good/ownership bad. Thanks for reiterating that one more time. It's overly simplistic and ignores the ridiculously expensive changes forced on business in the way of regulation, but soldier on good union guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 OK, now we know your position is Unions good/ownership bad. Thanks for reiterating that one more time. It's overly simplistic and ignores the ridiculously expensive changes forced on business in the way of regulation, but soldier on good union guy. 286743[/snapback] No. No. No. Just can't stop clinging to your soundbytes, Darin. You are the one being overly simplistic. Find in here where he said ownership is bad? Is it the part in bold? You can "consider" yourself an entrepreneur, but you are not one unless you own your own business. It is not realistic that everyone in a society would own their own business.Most will work for someone else or some other entity. The worker will always make less than the owner, obviously. That is capitalism. The issue Joe is HOW MUCH less? I'm not saying Unions are without flaws. But business will always try to get away with paying the least that it has to, leaving more for the owner. Hence the need for unions, to force them to pay what is fair. They won't do it on their own. Benefits that were common years ago have vanished with the unions. Not because companies can't pay them, they just don't want to. The gap between the middle class and super rich is growing. Unions are not designed to "protect the lazy man" they are designed to bargain for the most advantageous compensation possible. Strength in numbers. If you screw up you will still be fired. The union will argue your case for you, but they cannot change facts. A union does not mean you are guaranteed your job. Some try to hide behind them and "coast" but that is not by design of the union. That is a character flaw of an individual. Why does everything have to be seen as good or bad, black or white? I just don't see what he wrote as saying OWNERSHIP is bad. BUSINESS as he points out will not act FAIRLY when faced with paying its labor. Strength in numbers is the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 25, 2005 Author Share Posted March 25, 2005 No. No. No. Just can't stop clinging to your soundbytes, Darin. You are the one being overly simplistic. Find in here where he said ownership is bad? Is it the part in bold? You can "consider" yourself an entrepreneur, but you are not one unless you own your own business. It is not realistic that everyone in a society would own their own business.Most will work for someone else or some other entity. The worker will always make less than the owner, obviously. That is capitalism. The issue Joe is HOW MUCH less? I'm not saying Unions are without flaws. But business will always try to get away with paying the least that it has to, leaving more for the owner. Hence the need for unions, to force them to pay what is fair. They won't do it on their own. Benefits that were common years ago have vanished with the unions. Not because companies can't pay them, they just don't want to. The gap between the middle class and super rich is growing. Unions are not designed to "protect the lazy man" they are designed to bargain for the most advantageous compensation possible. Strength in numbers. If you screw up you will still be fired. The union will argue your case for you, but they cannot change facts. A union does not mean you are guaranteed your job. Some try to hide behind them and "coast" but that is not by design of the union. That is a character flaw of an individual. Why does everything have to be seen as good or bad, black or white? I just don't see what he wrote as saying OWNERSHIP is bad. BUSINESS as he points out will not act FAIRLY when faced with paying its labor. Strength in numbers is the issue. 286752[/snapback] And as a businessperson, it is well within his or her RIGHT to try and create as advantageous a position as possible. The OWNER is the one taking the risk, not the employee. Unions are built around the premise of blackmail: pay us what we want or we'll strike. It's hardly compatible with the free market, and it IS a large part of the reason why US manufacturing has gone the way of the dodo. Who in their right mind would continuee to operate a Union shop when they could move production elsewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 And as a businessperson, it is well within his or her RIGHT to try and create as advantageous a position as possible. The OWNER is the one taking the risk, not the employee. Unions are built around the premise of blackmail: pay us what we want or we'll strike. It's hardly compatible with the free market, and it IS a large part of the reason why US manufacturing has gone the way of the dodo. Who in their right mind would continuee to operate a Union shop when they could move production elsewhere? 286792[/snapback] Absolutely right. Note: Not all unions can strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 25, 2005 Author Share Posted March 25, 2005 Absolutely right. Note: Not all unions can strike. 286802[/snapback] Correct, fire and police unions cannot strike, but they have and can "sick-out". Just about every other union has gone on strike before. Even AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 Correct, fire and police unions cannot strike, but they have and can "sick-out". Just about every other union has gone on strike before. Even AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS. 286819[/snapback] You really resent this Joe? Feel the ultimate power is in the capitalist's hands? That is what it is really about, who has the power and control? And you'll stand behind that no matter if people act egregious? I had to sign a no-strike agreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 25, 2005 Author Share Posted March 25, 2005 You really resent this Joe? Feel the ultimate power is in the capitalist's hands? That is what it is really about, who has the power and control? And you'll stand behind that no matter if people act egregious?I had to sign a no-strike agreement. 286861[/snapback] That's what life is about, man. The free market is the ultimate in Darwinism. In the words of Ace Ventura: "In every game, there's a winner and a loser. Loo-hoo-hoo-ser." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMadCap Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 But business will always try to get away with paying the least that it has to, leaving more for the owner. 286738[/snapback] But Boat, they have to put money back into the buisness to make it grow, or the buisness will die. Certainly there are some greedy individuals out there, but not ALL the money is going into the owners pocket... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 No. It is a shining example what can be done when some place has: NATURAL RESOURCES. Oil makes the world go around today. You are lucky to have it! 285523[/snapback] Texas has natural resources. Yet the citizens don't share in the revenues generated from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 No. No. No. Just can't stop clinging to your soundbytes, Darin. You are the one being overly simplistic. Find in here where he said ownership is bad? Is it the part in bold? Why does everything have to be seen as good or bad, black or white? I just don't see what he wrote as saying OWNERSHIP is bad. BUSINESS as he points out will not act FAIRLY when faced with paying its labor. Strength in numbers is the issue. 286752[/snapback] Love your posts. You accuse me of clinging to soundbytes and end your post with "Business as he points out will not act fairly when faced with paying its labor." & " Strength in numbers is the issue." Uh, OK. The problem with folks in labor is they generally don't see the big picture. Things like "workman's comp" etc fly completely by the radar. But rant on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMadCap Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 My current employer seems to be leaning toward putting all manufacturing down in NC where the union is not as strong. I have two science degrees and some guy with a HS eqiv. gets paid more than me over in the plant to play cards in the break room because the lines are running smoothly. They get production bonuses, I don't. In order to keep people from being laid off because we didn't meet our production quota, instead of making the workers actually accountable for it, take a guess at what the Union cried about and got??? They lowered the production quota. Yep, Unions rock! When we move our manufacturing to NC, the Union folks will have only themselves to blame. Not that they will accept any of it, it will be more like that South Park episode...THEY TOOK OUR JOBS!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts