Bing Bong Posted September 25, 2018 Posted September 25, 2018 4 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I forgot about Williams and couldn't remember if Shields was there by then or not. But with Woodson I seem to recall him missing time early that year and Green Bay's pass defense struggling and then there being a real spike when he came back and they made a playoff run. I am pretty sure that was the Superbowl year. Ignore that last bit on Woodson. Wrong season. I blame old age. Still the point stands. He was a star corner probable HoFer and was on that Superbowl team. Woodson is one of the best corners ever! A HOF lock!
BillsPride12 Posted September 25, 2018 Posted September 25, 2018 We will sign him long term. That was the first piece McDermott brought in here. There's no way he's letting him leave. Especially with McDermott's DB background. Marv Levy had a saying back in the day..."I don't want pro bowl players...I want Super Bowl players".....Tre fits that
Bing Bong Posted September 26, 2018 Posted September 26, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, colin said: i'd rank them QB Pass rusher (generally DE, could be OLB or even DT but that's more rare) CB offensive play maker (now it's usually WR, could be RB or TE) OL (generally, LT, LG, RT, RG, C) DT LB (non pass rusher) Safety I think Safety position is watered down since the talent pretty much goes to CB and LB early on in football.. but having those elite safeties are huge. I'd watch Troy Polamalu and don't think I've ever seen a defensive player have the impact he did given his freedom due to his position to make judgement calls, his intelligence, and athleticism. Dude was everywhere on the field, would see a Quarterback indecisive and run faster than lightning for a sack, reads a run play and gobbles it up waaay behind where the runninback normally goes cause he's charging unblocked. I've seen them be the real difference makers on a team. But no they don't HAVE to be with a good supporting caste. I'd say if I could only have 1 great defensive player on a team, I'd give it safety, because they're freedom can't be game planned around. You can always run away from a run stuffer, double a pass rusher, but nothing you can do about a Troy Polamalu diagnosing your play and running wild with the whole field in front of him and no blockers I ****ing loved that Hyde play on 4th and 1. Mancrush on Hyde. Favorite Bill. Edited September 26, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks
colin Posted September 26, 2018 Posted September 26, 2018 14 hours ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said: But no they don't HAVE to be with a good supporting caste. I choose to believe that this is not a typo, and that QBs and DE's are the Brahmins of football. 1
26CornerBlitz Posted September 26, 2018 Posted September 26, 2018 He'll be up close and personal with Davante Adams on Sunday at Lambeau
Bing Bong Posted September 26, 2018 Posted September 26, 2018 54 minutes ago, colin said: I choose to believe that this is not a typo, and that QBs and DE's are the Brahmins of football. I'm obviously partial with Hyde love. Also talking strictly defense. Main point is that the best DE's can be chipped, game planned for, and if you were to have ONE good player on defense, might as well be your wildcard Safety running amok. Hard to game plan for a Safety with Ed Reed or Polamalu instincts. If ONE good player on defense is your defensive end, he can get neutralized like Mack appeared to be on a bad defense, even though he was still playing like a monster.. Their defense still was getting owned.
Alaska Darin Posted September 26, 2018 Posted September 26, 2018 On 9/25/2018 at 6:56 AM, CaptnCoke11 said: I’m as excited about Josh Allen as the next guy but not going to anoint him after one good game. We’ve seen Manuel/Edwards have good games and people started anointing them the franchise. Let’s wait and see EJ didn't show as much football sense in his career as JA has shown in his pair of starts. 2
Alphadawg7 Posted September 27, 2018 Posted September 27, 2018 (edited) On 9/25/2018 at 11:50 AM, BullBuchanan said: Who was Philly's star corner on their super bowl team? New England? Green Bay? Having a shutdown corner is like having an elite defensive tackle. They're neat and all, but they won't win you a championship unless you have an otherwise all time great defense. Um, GB won ages ago...and had the best QB in the NFL. Philly got lit up for 500+ yards and the bad secondary almost cost them the SB had it not had been Foles played the game of his life. And NE has had some really good corners in the Brady era...Ty Law, Revis, Samuel, Butler, Aqib Talib, etc...so I have no idea why you would try and put Pats on that list. Deion Sanders shifted the power from SF to Dallas when he moved from one to the other. The strength of the Seattle SB team was the secondary. I don't know why people do this stuff. I mean there is no exact blueprint to win the SB in the NFL. Teams with great D's and a bad Offense have won, teams with Great offenses and terrible D's have won...balanced teams have won. So to hand pick a couple examples to prove you don't need a corner is absurd. You win the SB with talent...period. You keep talent where you have it, and its one heck of an advantage to have a shut down corner shadowing the other teams top WR. If we don't keep Tre then that would be absurd. He is an elite player, you keep him. And this notion you said you would rather have 4 good corners than 1 elite one...hate to break it to you, but you aren't getting 4 good corners for the same price of Tre. Good corners don't make 25% the salary of Elite corners, so thats just nonsense. 4 good corners would cost you more than double what Tre would cost, maybe triple if we got them through FA. Edited September 27, 2018 by Alphadawg7 1
Bookie Man Posted September 27, 2018 Posted September 27, 2018 "Nobody's eating off this Tre. " It was awesome when he said that in an interview. 1
PlayoffsPlease Posted September 27, 2018 Posted September 27, 2018 I beg to disagree. A shut corner is great. And he is excellent at that job. This takes away a piece of the opposing offence. Josh Allen is now the Bills best player. He is pretty much the entire Bills offense at this point. He is doing an excellent job with a much bigger impact.
colin Posted September 27, 2018 Posted September 27, 2018 7 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: Um, GB won ages ago...and had the best QB in the NFL. Philly got lit up for 500+ yards and the bad secondary almost cost them the SB had it not had been Foles played the game of his life. And NE has had some really good corners in the Brady era...Ty Law, Revis, Samuel, Butler, Aqib Talib, etc...so I have no idea why you would try and put Pats on that list. Deion Sanders shifted the power from SF to Dallas when he moved from one to the other. The strength of the Seattle SB team was the secondary. I don't know why people do this stuff. I mean there is no exact blueprint to win the SB in the NFL. Teams with great D's and a bad Offense have won, teams with Great offenses and terrible D's have won...balanced teams have won. So to hand pick a couple examples to prove you don't need a corner is absurd. You win the SB with talent...period. You keep talent where you have it, and its one heck of an advantage to have a shut down corner shadowing the other teams top WR. If we don't keep Tre then that would be absurd. He is an elite player, you keep him. And this notion you said you would rather have 4 good corners than 1 elite one...hate to break it to you, but you aren't getting 4 good corners for the same price of Tre. Good corners don't make 25% the salary of Elite corners, so thats just nonsense. 4 good corners would cost you more than double what Tre would cost, maybe triple if we got them through FA. dude, for real. the rub comes in how you pay for the people tho. seattle got a lot of millage out of the LOB by having the first and second big contracts early in the cycle, so salary cap increases helped them along the way. you really want to stagger out the big contracts you sign, so that you don't get jabbed all at once. look at the bills w watkins and woods. if they were a couple of years apart we may have been able to sign at least one of them, maybe even two. another idea i have on nfl D's is that except for the two starting corners, talent on D is complimentary. a great pass rusher makes the guy beside him better. an MLB who can go side line to side line makes the OLB have less space to cover so they can play faster, DT soaks up blockers, etc. The difference w a starting corner is, his job is very binary. he either removes the WR as an option on a given pass play, or he is letting a guy be open. the saying "being on an island" is very true. for that reason, i think you really need to over invest in corners, because the difference between a B+ and an A corner on a given play can be 6 points.
BullBuchanan Posted October 5, 2018 Posted October 5, 2018 On 9/26/2018 at 11:53 PM, Alphadawg7 said: Um, GB won ages ago...and had the best QB in the NFL. Philly got lit up for 500+ yards and the bad secondary almost cost them the SB had it not had been Foles played the game of his life. And NE has had some really good corners in the Brady era...Ty Law, Revis, Samuel, Butler, Aqib Talib, etc...so I have no idea why you would try and put Pats on that list. Deion Sanders shifted the power from SF to Dallas when he moved from one to the other. The strength of the Seattle SB team was the secondary. I don't know why people do this stuff. I mean there is no exact blueprint to win the SB in the NFL. Teams with great D's and a bad Offense have won, teams with Great offenses and terrible D's have won...balanced teams have won. So to hand pick a couple examples to prove you don't need a corner is absurd. You win the SB with talent...period. You keep talent where you have it, and its one heck of an advantage to have a shut down corner shadowing the other teams top WR. If we don't keep Tre then that would be absurd. He is an elite player, you keep him. And this notion you said you would rather have 4 good corners than 1 elite one...hate to break it to you, but you aren't getting 4 good corners for the same price of Tre. Good corners don't make 25% the salary of Elite corners, so thats just nonsense. 4 good corners would cost you more than double what Tre would cost, maybe triple if we got them through FA. You can get good corners for 4-5 million per year. If you pay $20 million to one corner, now you have trash at the other 3 spots and any QB worth his salt will just ignore the one threat out of 5 that you shut down. Good luck with that.
GunnerBill Posted October 5, 2018 Posted October 5, 2018 On 9/27/2018 at 5:53 AM, Alphadawg7 said: Um, GB won ages ago...and had the best QB in the NFL. Philly got lit up for 500+ yards and the bad secondary almost cost them the SB had it not had been Foles played the game of his life. And NE has had some really good corners in the Brady era...Ty Law, Revis, Samuel, Butler, Aqib Talib, etc...so I have no idea why you would try and put Pats on that list. Deion Sanders shifted the power from SF to Dallas when he moved from one to the other. The strength of the Seattle SB team was the secondary. I don't know why people do this stuff. I mean there is no exact blueprint to win the SB in the NFL. Teams with great D's and a bad Offense have won, teams with Great offenses and terrible D's have won...balanced teams have won. So to hand pick a couple examples to prove you don't need a corner is absurd. You win the SB with talent...period. You keep talent where you have it, and its one heck of an advantage to have a shut down corner shadowing the other teams top WR. If we don't keep Tre then that would be absurd. He is an elite player, you keep him. And this notion you said you would rather have 4 good corners than 1 elite one...hate to break it to you, but you aren't getting 4 good corners for the same price of Tre. Good corners don't make 25% the salary of Elite corners, so thats just nonsense. 4 good corners would cost you more than double what Tre would cost, maybe triple if we got them through FA. Missed this post last week but it is absolutely right. Teams that win the Superbowl have elite talent. Normally 4 or 5 of them on the team and some other very good non-elite players around them. And there is no absolute model. Normally the QB is one of the elite players, but not always. Teams with elite corners have won it and teams with average corners have won it. But every Superbowl team has a core of 4 or 5 key difference makers. When you get one you keep him. The Bills have not been good at A - finding those guys in the draft and B - keeping them. Tre White may well be elite (isn't quite there yet but pretty close 4 games into year two) the last player we drafted who I would even put in that close to elite category was Cordy Glenn who at his peak was just a tick below the elite LTs in this league. We don't get them very often. We sure as hell better keep Tre when the time comes. 1
Bill from NYC Posted October 5, 2018 Posted October 5, 2018 On 9/25/2018 at 2:53 PM, BringBackOrton said: Gilmore. I didn't say you needed star corners. I said you needed stars, which Tre is. The Eagles had a ton of stars last year. Green Bay hasn't won in Super Bowl in almost a decade so that's kind of a weird comment. They actually have had a garbage defense devoid of stars which is pretty much the reason why they can't win another one with a top 3 QB in NFL history. Do you seriously believe that Gilmore was a shut down corner in Buffalo?
BringBackOrton Posted October 5, 2018 Posted October 5, 2018 52 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said: Do you seriously believe that Gilmore was a shut down corner in Buffalo? Gilmore was a star in Buffalo. 1
nedboy7 Posted October 5, 2018 Posted October 5, 2018 I think since we ain’t winning now we need to trade white to create cap space and get some draft picks. On 9/25/2018 at 2:46 PM, FeelingOnYouboty said: Our one elite player and he's getting better Yeah the future looks bright! We got 1.
John from Riverside Posted October 5, 2018 Posted October 5, 2018 3 hours ago, BringBackOrton said: Gilmore was a star in Buffalo. Gilmore got burned often.....would not make the extra effort to actually intercept the balls......and gave up plays at the worst times. Tre White is better then Stephon Gilmore and a bright spot on a team that doesnt have many this year. 1
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