SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted December 18, 2018 Posted December 18, 2018 2 hours ago, 87168 said: Lamar Jackson is 4-1 as a starter, with the only loss coming from KC (of all teams) in overtime. it's ok to be wrong. Seriously? His stats in the passing game are not stellar and he's a running QB that passes. as to the teams he's played.... All of then have major issues this year. 6-8 Cincinnati (worse record than the Browns), 3-11 Oakland, 5-9 Atlanta and 5-9 Tampa 46 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I said the day after the draft I would evaluate him fairly on what he does on the field for Buffalo. I would like to think people recognise I have kept to that. When he has struggled I have said he has struggled. When he has played well I have said he has played well. I think predicting him as the 2019 MVP is over optimism but I totally understand the positivity, he has taken a very obvious step since returning from injury - it is indisputable. At the moment things are trending the right way. I knew you'd get with the Program 1
thebandit27 Posted December 18, 2018 Posted December 18, 2018 40 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: People just seem to presume I will have a bias towards my opinion pre-draft. Opinions are only worth having if you reserve the right to change them with evidence. People who think something once and therefore think it forevermore are fools. My only bias is towards the Buffalo Bills ? I knew you'd be fair ?
eball Posted December 18, 2018 Posted December 18, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Allen had ups and Downs as has Rosen, and plenty of people are drawing plenty of conclusions. Much of Allen’s fanfare has come from his mobility btw, which Rosen doesn’t have. I'm not necessarily directing this at you, but it's a shame that Allen's mobility and rushing statistics are essentially being used against him in the evaluation of his QB play, while at the same time Lamar Jackson (with a much better supporting cast on offense) is being praised for his running ability while posting very modest passing numbers. Edited December 18, 2018 by eball
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted December 18, 2018 Posted December 18, 2018 23 minutes ago, eball said: I'm not necessarily directing this at you, but it's a shame that Allen's mobility and rushing statistics are essentially being used against him in the evaluation of his QB play, while at the same time Lamar Jackson (with a much better supporting cast on offense) is being praised for his running ability while posting very modest passing numbers. His day will come too. The NFL game has a limited tolerance for dual threat QBs it seems. OK to be mobile early to bolster development. Eventually QBs need to grow their pocket passing ability. Lamar’s time will come too, I suspect. He has the benefit of just starting more recently and winning more. Wont be long before defenses are saying things like “keeping him in the pocket and making him play QB” for all these guys... Unless it it doesn’t work. Either way the bigger point is the book on the QB draft class of 2018 is in its infancy.
87168 Posted December 18, 2018 Posted December 18, 2018 2 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Seriously? His stats in the passing game are not stellar and he's a running QB that passes. as to the teams he's played.... All of then have major issues this year. 6-8 Cincinnati (worse record than the Browns), 3-11 Oakland, 5-9 Atlanta and 5-9 Tampa I knew you'd get with the Program oh, so we discredit wins depending on the opponent? Allen beat Jacksonville (3pt diff) and Detroit (1pt diff). shall we discredit those wins as well? I see many lauding over Allen's performance on Sunday, yet never saw anyone state "yea but Detroit has had major issues this year". a win is a win. I know you want Jackson to be bad. You need it. Sadly, that's not happening. you may want to enroll in a different program. 5 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: Yeah, but he's doing it running an advanced version of the wildcat. That does not make him the better QB. so when JA runs for a QB it matters and counts towards their evaluation as a QB, but with Jackson, not so much. got it. 40 minutes ago, eball said: I'm not necessarily directing this at you, but it's a shame that Allen's mobility and rushing statistics are essentially being used against him in the evaluation of his QB play, while at the same time Lamar Jackson (with a much better supporting cast on offense) is being praised for his running ability while posting very modest passing numbers. wasn't this the same metric being held against our former QB? People's biggest grip was his eagerness to run, instead of looking to pass. JA does the same thing (equating to less wins) and people love it. funny. the Bills FO made it a point to say they were looking for a big pocket passer in the off season, then draft a mobile QB.
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 18, 2018 Posted December 18, 2018 Their passing numbers are very similar. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AlleJo02.htm https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoseJo01.htm i also think the talent around them is very similar. The Cards oline is terrible, Johnson lacks explosion, and Fitz is the only good receiver they have and he isn’t the same. I will say say that I definitely expected Rosen to be further along than Allen and that clearly isn’t the case. So that’s good on Allen. Long way to go and both will need to get their qb ratings out of the 60s. 1
GoBills808 Posted December 18, 2018 Posted December 18, 2018 24 minutes ago, 87168 said: wasn't this the same metric being held against our former QB? People's biggest grip was his eagerness to run, instead of looking to pass. JA does the same thing (equating to less wins) and people love it. funny. the Bills FO made it a point to say they were looking for a big pocket passer in the off season, then draft a mobile QB. I think this point loses a ton of credibility once you realize you're comparing a rookie to a 6 year veteran, and that's without acknowledging the turnover on the offensive line from last season to this. Not really relevant imo. 1
Royale with Cheese Posted December 18, 2018 Posted December 18, 2018 27 minutes ago, 87168 said: so when JA runs for a QB it matters and counts towards their evaluation as a QB, but with Jackson, not so much. got it. wasn't this the same metric being held against our former QB? People's biggest grip was his eagerness to run, instead of looking to pass. JA does the same thing (equating to less wins) and people love it. funny. the Bills FO made it a point to say they were looking for a big pocket passer in the off season, then draft a mobile QB. Taylor and Allen aren't the same. What's the reason why Allen has a big and giant open field when he runs and Taylor didn't? It's because the defense didn't respect Taylor's ability to beat them with his arm. Allen, they do. He's going to take chances and shots...Taylor wouldn't. Beane was specifically looking for a QB who can makes plays in the pocket in which Allen can do. Just because someone can run doesn't make him a pure mobile QB. 3
eball Posted December 18, 2018 Posted December 18, 2018 29 minutes ago, 87168 said: so when JA runs for a QB it matters and counts towards their evaluation as a QB, but with Jackson, not so much. got it. wasn't this the same metric being held against our former QB? People's biggest grip was his eagerness to run, instead of looking to pass. JA does the same thing (equating to less wins) and people love it. funny. the Bills FO made it a point to say they were looking for a big pocket passer in the off season, then draft a mobile QB. The Bills fully expect and want Allen to be able to make plays from the pocket. If you have been watching the last two games you see that he is starting to do just that. In my opinion Allen's potential is far beyond Jackson's (or Tyrod's). The surprising thing to most is just how athletic Allen is -- which should only be viewed as a positive. He clearly wants to make big plays in the passing game, as evidenced by his average air yards per attempt. We can all get together in five years and see who was right.
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted December 18, 2018 Posted December 18, 2018 35 minutes ago, 87168 said: oh, so we discredit wins depending on the opponent? Allen beat Jacksonville (3pt diff) and Detroit (1pt diff). shall we discredit those wins as well? I see many lauding over Allen's performance on Sunday, yet never saw anyone state "yea but Detroit has had major issues this year". a win is a win. I know you want Jackson to be bad. You need it. Sadly, that's not happening. you may want to enroll in a different program. so when JA runs for a QB it matters and counts towards their evaluation as a QB, but with Jackson, not so much. got it. wasn't this the same metric being held against our former QB? People's biggest grip was his eagerness to run, instead of looking to pass. JA does the same thing (equating to less wins) and people love it. funny. the Bills FO made it a point to say they were looking for a big pocket passer in the off season, then draft a mobile QB. One is running almost exclusively because of designed runs; hence the characterization as a "wildcat" offense. The other is running on scrambles. Jackson is a much worse passer, and it isn't even close. Jackson is playing in a gadget offense that will be figured out in short order.
John from Riverside Posted December 18, 2018 Posted December 18, 2018 (edited) 50 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Their passing numbers are very similar. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AlleJo02.htm https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoseJo01.htm i also think the talent around them is very similar. The Cards oline is terrible, Johnson lacks explosion, and Fitz is the only good receiver they have and he isn’t the same. I will say say that I definitely expected Rosen to be further along than Allen and that clearly isn’t the case. So that’s good on Allen. Long way to go and both will need to get their qb ratings out of the 60s. The passing numbers might be similar......but the eye test is glaring that they are not the same kind of difference makers for their teams Allen CARRIES this offense Rosen cant do that Also when you figure that one of these guys was supposed to be pro ready.....while the other raw as hell.....well........ Edited December 18, 2018 by John from Riverside 1
sleeby Posted December 18, 2018 Posted December 18, 2018 1 hour ago, 87168 said: Bills FO made it a point to say they were looking for a big pocket passer in the off season, then draft a mobile QB. The bills also went to the playoffs and so left themselves picking at 21. Looking draft night, when the Bills did make their upgraded pick, who are you suggesting they should have picked? Rosen?
downunderbill Posted December 18, 2018 Posted December 18, 2018 8 hours ago, gobills1212 said: Might as well just add me too as a precaution. Someone with 29 rep points acting like THAT is probably just too tempting honestly. If THAT makes you super sensitive just adding me now will save you getting your feelings hurt. Looks like xmas came early for you my friend! Happy Holidays!! I was tempted and it was way too easy. Just got tired of reading all his I'm holier than thou because I know Allen will suck posts.
K D Posted December 18, 2018 Posted December 18, 2018 6 hours ago, BillsMafia13 said: All your 'truth" is doing you a lot of good now. You deserve to have your fan card revoked after next year when Allen is looking like the real deal and Rosen is falling down chucking ducks. SHAME Allen is literally the lowest rated passer of the starting QB's in the entire NFL. His stats are very Tebow-esque. You don't have much of a leg to stand on either. Are you really that excited for a guy that completes 50% of his passes? If the defense didn't bail them out time and time again I think you guys wouldn't be so excited about an offense that only put up 14 points
John from Riverside Posted December 18, 2018 Posted December 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, WRONG JOSH said: Allen is literally the lowest rated passer of the starting QB's in the entire NFL. His stats are very Tebow-esque. You don't have much of a leg to stand on either. Are you really that excited for a guy that completes 50% of his passes? If the defense didn't bail them out time and time again I think you guys wouldn't be so excited about an offense that only put up 14 points Take a lap 1
downunderbill Posted December 18, 2018 Posted December 18, 2018 On 10/22/2018 at 2:58 AM, WRONG JOSH said: Josh Rosen is a highly touted rookie QB, albeit a struggling one at the moment. Josh Allen is a good athlete. I think Josh Allen would make a good H-back. Maybe we can sign him and Tebow and run the wing T offense because we sure as heck can't pass the ball with any consistency. Ground and pound baby! If you guys think he's all of a sudden going to "get it" then you are delusional. He's never been a good passing QB at any level of competition. I hear a lot of people saying dumb things like Mahomes was a project and he panned out so Allen can too! You do realize that Allen has only had 2 300-yard passing games in his entire life right? Mahomes AVERAGED over 400 yards per game passing in college against much better competition. Different offenses sure but he showed a propensity to air it out and complete passes when given the opportunity. Allen is never going to be that guy. In today's NFL, 300 yards is a pretty average day for a good QB. We will never see that kind of passing attack under Allen. Maybe we can win some games with good defense but we will never be better than a .500 team +- 1 game until we get a QB that can consistently pass the ball down the field How do you know the future with such certainty? We'll see next year how great Rosen will become. I'd say this year but he was benched for safety haha. 8 minutes ago, WRONG JOSH said: Allen is literally the lowest rated passer of the starting QB's in the entire NFL. His stats are very Tebow-esque. You don't have much of a leg to stand on either. Are you really that excited for a guy that completes 50% of his passes? If the defense didn't bail them out time and time again I think you guys wouldn't be so excited about an offense that only put up 14 points Both teams are depleted and thought to be far from competitive, with that in mind, how many games have Arizona won because of Rosen?
thebandit27 Posted December 18, 2018 Posted December 18, 2018 19 minutes ago, WRONG JOSH said: Allen is literally the lowest rated passer of the starting QB's in the entire NFL. His stats are very Tebow-esque. You don't have much of a leg to stand on either. Are you really that excited for a guy that completes 50% of his passes? If the defense didn't bail them out time and time again I think you guys wouldn't be so excited about an offense that only put up 14 points
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted December 18, 2018 Posted December 18, 2018 2 hours ago, 87168 said: oh, so we discredit wins depending on the opponent? Allen beat Jacksonville (3pt diff) and Detroit (1pt diff). shall we discredit those wins as well? I see many lauding over Allen's performance on Sunday, yet never saw anyone state "yea but Detroit has had major issues this year". a win is a win. I know you want Jackson to be bad. You need it. Sadly, that's not happening. you may want to enroll in a different program. Uh yeah. The opponents DO matter.
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted December 18, 2018 Posted December 18, 2018 20 minutes ago, WRONG JOSH said: Allen is literally the lowest rated passer of the starting QB's in the entire NFL. His stats are very Tebow-esque. You don't have much of a leg to stand on either. Are you really that excited for a guy that completes 50% of his passes? If the defense didn't bail them out time and time again I think you guys wouldn't be so excited about an offense that only put up 14 points why not just go and follow the kid who you're holding so tightly by the jock strap instead of whining about who the bills chose to lead this team? in actuality, I mean, he and his team are doing so much better, I'm sure they have room for a bandwagon fan like you. wait, I'm sorry, I just noticed your profile photo. my bad, I see you're already an arizona fan. 1
Recommended Posts