Beane took a lot of heat for his offseason pick ups

[buffaloboyinATL]

I was very happy with what I saw from Ryan Lewis yesterday.

[ngbills]

Ivory - He is a serviceable player. But in today's NFL RB's are a dime a dozen. So I would suggest we are overpaying for a the type of production we get out of him. Though dont hate what he brings to the table. But look around the league - Breida, AP, Lindsay, Mixon, J Howard, and on and on. Half or more of the top 10 rushers are randoms making $1M or less. 

[John from Riverside]

4 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Ivory - He is a serviceable player. But in today's NFL RB's are a dime a dozen. So I would suggest we are overpaying for a the type of production we get out of him. Though dont hate what he brings to the table. But look around the league - Breida, AP, Lindsay, Mixon, J Howard, and on and on. Half or more of the top 10 rushers are randoms making $1M or less. 

I dont think those guys are quite the battering ram that Ivory is.

 

Its not just that he is a backup RB...it is the TYPE of backup he is.....I take Ivory over ALL of those guys to do what he is brought here to do.....punish defenses, take hits, pick up short yardage, red zone offense.

 

He catches the ball pretty well to.

 

 

 

[Matt_In_NH]

And what would we have said 2 days ago?  Lets wait for the season to play out more before we conlude all these guys are great signings.

[DefenseWins]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Whaley only actually picked 2 players in the first round - Sammy Watkins and Shaq Lawson. His record of draft picks is not as bad as sometimes argued. He had some misses - sure - and didn't find a true elite player but in his 3 drafts as Bills GM (2014, 15 and 16) Doug Whaley drafted 20 players. 7 of those 20 started in the NFL in week 1 of 2018. That is far from a disaster. If you want to pin 2013 on him so that he takes full blame for EJ (I do believe he was fully on board with that pick) then his ratio is 11/28 players drafted who started week 1 of 2018. That is a pretty decent strike rate actually. 

 

If we are pretending to "judge" Beane's moves as GM should we also not be giving him credit for making the moves necessary to draft Allen in the first place? He got a valuable 3rd rd pick for Tyrod (saving valuable cap space as well) and then traded with Cinci unloading an overpaid player (Glenn) who was no longer starting, to acquire their #1 draft pick which was later used on draft day, as well as making the trade with Tampa to move up to select Allen. If we are looking at Beane's moves should we not be taking these into consideration as well? If Edmunds pans out as I believe that he will, how bout giving Beane credit for that move as well.

 

As far as Whaley is concerned, lets also remember that he was most likely a major factor in why Marrone wanted out. Wasn't it said that when the trade to acquire Watkins was announced that he was rumored to have angrily left the building in a huff over the move? Didn't Marrone basically force Whaley to go out and bring in Orton because Marrone wanted no part of EJ as his Qb at that point? It seems to me that most of us fans had already concluded that EJ was a bust and yet Whaley went out and drafted a WR so highly when he could have simply stayed put in the draft and selected another highly regarded WR?

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, DefenseWins said:

 

As far as Whaley is concerned, lets also remember that he was most likely a major factor in why Marrone wanted out. Wasn't it said that when the trade to acquire Watkins was announced that he was rumored to have angrily left the building in a huff over the move? Didn't Marrone basically force Whaley to go out and bring in Orton because Marrone wanted no part of EJ as his Qb at that point? It seems to me that most of us fans had already concluded that EJ was a bust and yet Whaley went out and drafted a WR so highly when he could have simply stayed put in the draft and selected another highly regarded WR?

 

First of all I wasn't pretending to judge Beane. I was doing exactly the opposite and saying he is an incomplete. The key is the next 12 months.

 

As for Whaley one of his major failings as the GM was he fell out with 3 Head Coaches in a row. Working with people is part of the job and he was bad at it. My point was purely to respond to the "he sucks in the draft." It is hard to discuss Whaley objectively here. The mention of his name brings ire. He wasn't good enough and it was the right time to move on.... but he was kinda average here, not terrible, when you properly assess his moves. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

17 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Maybe we should revisit that......

 

P Corey Bojorquez - Some good some bad today.....has quite the leg

 

CB Ryan Lewis - thought he played very well considering he is brand new

 

C Russell Bodine - Hated upon greatly.....and not a star....but has stuck on the Bengals for years....not as bad as made out to be

 

T Marshall Newhouse - Low end free agent signing

 

RB Chris Ivory - Has been exactly as advertised and a good signing

 

DT - Star L. - Not putting up the stats.....but sure does take on the double teams allowing others to do their thing....really helped Milano today

 

DE - Trent Murphy - getting better by the game.....starting to get pressure and make plays

 

 

 

 

 

 

.....but with limited cap space (set aside whose fault or decision, yet it was a necessary purge IMO), you're going to have to roll the dice on some players......I did say Davis and Murphy were surprising coming off injury/PED, but someone here rightfully said you "have to take a flier based on what you have to spend"....mea culpa is no problem about Murphy.....at the same time and other than Star, are there any long term/big bucks deals?.....don't believe so.....so heading into 2019 with 10 picks and $75 mil to spend, position is MUCH better IMO.....

[DefenseWins]

12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

First of all I wasn't pretending to judge Beane. I was doing exactly the opposite and saying he is an incomplete. The key is the next 12 months.

 

As for Whaley one of his major failings as the GM was he fell out with 3 Head Coaches in a row. Working with people is part of the job and he was bad at it. My point was purely to respond to the "he sucks in the draft." It is hard to discuss Whaley objectively here. The mention of his name brings ire. He wasn't good enough and it was the right time to move on.... but he was kinda average here, not terrible, when you properly assess his moves. 

 

I'm glad we agree that Beane cannot realistically be judged at this point based on the short time he has actually been here making moves and that 2019 will be crucial in how Beane will be judged moving forward. The fact that he was able to move up and acquire Allen and still retain all our picks for 2019 is quite frankly a remarkable achievement IMO. I also remember that on draft night many of us fans, myself included, were somewhat surprised when Beane chose Allen over Rosen. However, based on what we are currently seeing out of Allen I can well understand now why Beane made that move. The story we were being told was that Allen had accuracy problems. Apparently, Beane did his "due diligence" and came to the conclusion that Allen was indeed the real deal and deserves alot of credit for that judgement. I still think that this was a rare draft for QB's similar to the famous 83 draft and that the top 4 QB's look to have solid careers ahead of them. But at this point I have to give Beane ton's of credit for his moves so far and can only look forward to what this team will acheive in the years to come.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

...McBeane just concluded his FIRST draft at OBD and his second off-season despite thee first one starting late after his May 2017 hire.......not sure what the hell the "reasonable (NOT HERE)" expectation would be......cap cleanup and dead wood jettison was the first order of business.......and do not see a McBeane/McD power struggle...if I'm the HC and in charge of "between the white stripes", I want some input as far as personnel....off season signings were dictated on dollars to spend and certainly would necessitate some gambles.....some seemed to work an others did not...NEVER happened before, right?....

 

...STILL think the premise was via the draft and FA signings to yield as competitive team as possible under the constrictions...so I'd say 2019 with McBeane/McD being equally grounded, 10 picks and somewhere between $65-$80 mil to spend, will be the FIRST true test of them together for regime judgment.......

[atlbillsfan1975]

Ivory looks like he has something left. He has great hands out of the backfield and I think he one cut and straight up field is good with this line. 

Murphy actually made himself known yesterday. 

Star is doing his job.

Newhouse has been irrelevant.

Bodine looked better than Groy yesterday.

Bojo is a heck of a punter.

 

as others said I think Beane is playing it smart. 

They will have a ton of money to spend next year and all the picks.

i bet Beane will do some wheeling and dealing to make this team better. One thing they have shown is they will make movers when they think it is necessary. 

[SoTier]

19 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Maybe we should revisit that......

 

P Corey Bojorquez - Some good some bad today.....has quite the leg

 

CB Ryan Lewis - thought he played very well considering he is brand new

 

C Russell Bodine - Hated upon greatly.....and not a star....but has stuck on the Bengals for years....not as bad as made out to be

 

T Marshall Newhouse - Low end free agent signing

 

RB Chris Ivory - Has been exactly as advertised and a good signing

 

DT - Star L. - Not putting up the stats.....but sure does take on the double teams allowing others to do their thing....really helped Milano today

 

DE - Trent Murphy - getting better by the game.....starting to get pressure and make plays

 

 

 

 

 

It was 1 game, so no, it's not "time to revisit" anything just yet.  

 

Bojoquez and Lewis were very late pick ups from other team's waiver cuts/practice squads (both from NE I think), and they were never particularly lumped in with the rest of the FAs the Bills brought in during the off season.   They may turn out to be the best of the Bills off-season FA signings.

 

I don't think the criticism of the Ivory signing was so much about his on-field play as about his age and contract; most critics thought that the Bills should have gone with a younger RB.  I think Ivory is an okay sub for McCoy, and he and M Murphy did a nice job replacing Shady against the Vikings.  Does that last?  Who knows?

 

With Star and T Murphy, the problem I have with them is that they are very expensive for what the team gets:  Star has not played well for a couple of years, and T Murphy has been injured and then suspended for PEDs for over a year IIRC, and their play has been "okay" at best.  So, they're a couple of JAGs getting paid like they're top notch players at their positions.

 

Finally, Phillip Gaines has been a liability at CB opposite White, so maybe it's just as well that he's injured and Lewis replaced him.

[Johnny Hammersticks]

20 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Maybe we should revisit that......

 

P Corey Bojorquez - Some good some bad today.....has quite the leg

 

CB Ryan Lewis - thought he played very well considering he is brand new

 

C Russell Bodine - Hated upon greatly.....and not a star....but has stuck on the Bengals for years....not as bad as made out to be

 

T Marshall Newhouse - Low end free agent signing

 

RB Chris Ivory - Has been exactly as advertised and a good signing

 

DT - Star L. - Not putting up the stats.....but sure does take on the double teams allowing others to do their thing....really helped Milano today

 

DE - Trent Murphy - getting better by the game.....starting to get pressure and make plays

 

It appears I may have been wrong about the Trent Murphy signing.  Hated it.  Remains to be seen if he will stay healthy down the stretch, but he sure looked good against Minni.  

 

A dish of roasted crow I’d gladly eat with a nice bottle of Merlot.

[John from Riverside]

27 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

It was 1 game, so no, it's not "time to revisit" anything just yet.  

 

Bojoquez and Lewis were very late pick ups from other team's waiver cuts/practice squads (both from NE I think), and they were never particularly lumped in with the rest of the FAs the Bills brought in during the off season.   They may turn out to be the best of the Bills off-season FA signings.

 

I don't think the criticism of the Ivory signing was so much about his on-field play as about his age and contract; most critics thought that the Bills should have gone with a younger RB.  I think Ivory is an okay sub for McCoy, and he and M Murphy did a nice job replacing Shady against the Vikings.  Does that last?  Who knows?

 

With Star and T Murphy, the problem I have with them is that they are very expensive for what the team gets:  Star has not played well for a couple of years, and T Murphy has been injured and then suspended for PEDs for over a year IIRC, and their play has been "okay" at best.  So, they're a couple of JAGs getting paid like they're top notch players at their positions.

 

Finally, Phillip Gaines has been a liability at CB opposite White, so maybe it's just as well that he's injured and Lewis replaced him.

You didnt have any problem piling on after the first two soooooo

[Bing Bong]

16 hours ago, davefan66 said:

Thought the lot of them played pretty well yesterday.  Especially thought Ivory played well, wasn’t expecting that.  Expected Marcus Murphy to look better than he did when he ran the ball. 

 

Need to keep it up, one game does not make a season.

Felt like TBD won the the SB. Let's focus on 2-2

[GreggTX]

I don't think we'll see Trent Murphy at his best for a while yet. He's still favoring his injured leg and he's on a limited snap count. We'll see a lot of Nate Orchard this Sunday.

[SoTier]

12 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

You didnt have any problem piling on after the first two soooooo

 

Soooooo what?  A single win after two horrible losses in which the team was totally out-classed doesn't give McDermott and Beane redemption although you're free to anoint them "great" if you want.

[teef]

Just now, SoTier said:

 

Soooooo what?  A single win after two horrible losses in which the team was totally out-classed doesn't give McDermott and Beane redemption although you're free to anoint them "great" if you want.

you spent a day not being angry.  that's not bad.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

27 minutes ago, teef said:

you spent a day not being angry.  that's not bad.

 

...bet he STILL kicked the dog..........

[SoTier]

24 minutes ago, teef said:

you spent a day not being angry.  that's not bad.

 

I'm not "being angry".  I'm skeptical.  McDermott/Beane are 10-10, including a playoff loss.  Including ass-kickings by LA Chargers twice, New Orleans, New England twice, and Baltimore.   Including losses to Carolina, New England, Jacksonville and Baltimore in which all the Bills could muster in each game was a FG.   That's not exactly impressive but pretend it is if it fits your fantasies.

[buffaloaggie]

Giving Groy a bit of a pass, he's a Guard most of his career. Maybe trying to fit a square peg into a round hole has been the Bills problem. Coaching makes up a lot of the issue. McDermott waking Frazier out of his play calling slumber was kind of huge. I have faith in the coaching staff. They're taking a bunch of no names on offense, and now they've tasted victory. The defense is now shaping up into what many thought. The biggest question moving forward will be depth, when the inevitable injury bug hits. I do like where this team is going, and it obviously started in the 2nd half against the Chargers.