Buffalo Barbarian Posted September 24, 2018 Posted September 24, 2018 1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said: Yeah McDermott and Beane definitely destroyed the WR corps. Just disgusting to watch. Not sure what's worse McDermott not picking up Watkins option and Beane basically swapping him for the equivalent of Benjamin and a 4th........ or McDermott allowing his WR coach to talk him into trading up for Zay Jones when JuJu was on the board. McDermott letting Woods and Goodwin get away didn't help the situation either. if Watkins is here then Allen is not. the WRs are bad and should never be traded up for, unless you're a Contender. Wanted Cooper Kupp over jones and should have kept Woods and should not have traded for Benjamin. But I believe they will get this straightened out this off season.
BADOLBILZ Posted September 24, 2018 Posted September 24, 2018 5 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: if Watkins is here then Allen is not. the WRs are bad and should never be traded up for, unless you're a Contender. Wanted Cooper Kupp over jones and should have kept Woods and should not have traded for Benjamin. But I believe they will get this straightened out this off season. No they'd have gotten Allen. The Bucs kinda' worked the Bills over because the Bills had a ton of draft capital. Beane said as much with regard to negotiations for trade-ups. If anything the ability to get Edmunds might have been compromised. But even then if Watkins were still in tow the pick the Bills later dealt for Kelvin Benjamin(their OWN 3rd rounder) would have still been in play and Baltimore probably takes that instead of the Tyrod pick to move up for Edmunds who was sliding due to concerns about his instincts(which have looked like something of an issue so far). That Watkins pick didn't make or break their ability to get Allen. At the time of the trade I think Beane thought it was going to be a big piece but it ended up being a late second rounder and like I said they then had to deal a 3rd for Benjamin who has been woeful.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted September 24, 2018 Posted September 24, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: No they'd have gotten Allen. The Bucs kinda' worked the Bills over because the Bills had a ton of draft capital. Beane said as much with regard to negotiations for trade-ups. If anything the ability to get Edmunds might have been compromised. But even then if Watkins were still in tow the pick the Bills later dealt for Kelvin Benjamin(their OWN 3rd rounder) would have still been in play and Baltimore probably takes that instead of the Tyrod pick to move up for Edmunds who was sliding due to concerns about his instincts(which have looked like something of an issue so far). That Watkins pick didn't make or break their ability to get Allen. At the time of the trade I think Beane thought it was going to be a big piece but it ended up being a late second rounder and like I said they then had to deal a 3rd for Benjamin who has been woeful. If we didn't use the 2 seconds we would have used something else like next year's first which we really need. Watkins did nothing here and it was a good trade. what we really should have done is traded Tyrod and McCoy last year and start Peterman and then we weren't trading any picks, which could have been used to rebuild the offense this year. Edited September 24, 2018 by Buffalo Barbarian
BADOLBILZ Posted September 24, 2018 Posted September 24, 2018 15 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: If we didn't use the 2 seconds we would have used something else like next year's first which we really need. Watkins did nothing here and it was a good trade. what we really should have done is traded Tyrod and McCoy last year and start Peterman and then we weren't trading any picks, which could have been used to rebuild the offense this year. The difference between the Tyrod pick and the Watkins pick was very little..........the Bucs just demanded it because the Bills had it........nobody was offering even close to what the Bills were to move up for Allen........they were effectively bidding against themselves at that point...........AND additionally the Bills would have still had their own 3rd rounder that they had to spend on KB because they had stupidly traded Watkins. So no..........they wouldn't have had to trade any 2019 capital. But even if they HAD..........how do you think you are going to get a WR like Watkins? FA? Good luck with that. The Bills will be spending an early pick on a WR and then have to endure a year or two of growing pains with that guy. The teams that are getting quick returns from young QB's......and taking advantage of them being on cheap contracts......are doing so by providing those QB's with quality veteran targets.
NewEra Posted September 24, 2018 Posted September 24, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said: So if McDermott was a better coach like Andy Reid...........and if McDermott had kept Watkins (and perhaps Woods and Goodwin?) and drafted JuJu instead of Zay when he was serving as de facto GM .........then Allen would have thrown 10 TD's in his first two starts and had the Bills scoring close to 40 every week? Maybe so. But the old "I trust our coach and he shouldn't be questioned but our players would be better if we had THAT coach" argument never really made sense to me. The Bills had Mahomes in hand. He's REALLY good now. Hopefully it turns into an interesting story line in a few AFC championship matchups between KC and Buffalo someday. Next to Aaron Rodgers......Mahomes and Allen probably the most impressive physical skills of all the QB's in the NFL. No....that’s not what I said and IF we kept Sammy and Woods is irrelevant to anything we’re talking about. Agreed about mahomes. He is very good. I just wonder (and will never find out) how good he’d be with the talent josh allen is playing alongside. I’m fairly confidant he wouldn’t have 13 TDs throwing the ball to KBum, foster, Holmes, clay and Zay. They’ve dropped at least 4 TDs this season. 4 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: The difference between the Tyrod pick and the Watkins pick was very little..........the Bucs just demanded it because the Bills had it........nobody was offering even close to what the Bills were to move up for Allen........they were effectively bidding against themselves at that point...........AND additionally the Bills would have still had their own 3rd rounder that they had to spend on KB because they had stupidly traded Watkins. So no..........they wouldn't have had to trade any 2019 capital. But even if they HAD..........how do you think you are going to get a WR like Watkins? FA? Good luck with that. The Bills will be spending an early pick on a WR and then have to endure a year or two of growing pains with that guy. The teams that are getting quick returns from young QB's......and taking advantage of them being on cheap contracts......are doing so by providing those QB's with quality veteran targets. But in reality, you have no idea if we would’ve had to give up a 2019 pick because you’re talking about something that didn’t happen. You weren’t on the phone with the Bucs and you don’t know with certainty, what other offers were on table. This whole conversation is nonsense and speculation. You don’t know.....you think you know i cant believe we’re still talking about Sammy Watkins Edited September 24, 2018 by NewEra
Bob in STL Posted September 24, 2018 Posted September 24, 2018 We did not trade down the Mohomes pick and get Tre and Allen. Pointless question.
BADOLBILZ Posted September 24, 2018 Posted September 24, 2018 1 minute ago, NewEra said: No....that’s not what I said and IF we kept Sammy and Woods is irrelevant to anything we’re talking about. Agreed about mahomes. He is very good. I just wonder (and will never find out) how good he’d be with the talent josh allen is playing alongside. I’m fairly confidant he wouldn’t have 13 TDs throwing the ball to KBum, foster, Holmes, clay and Zay. They’ve dropped at least 4 TDs this season. The Sammy pick WAS traded to move up to get Allen. As it turns out it most likely wasn't necessary..........but you can't discuss the spoils of trading the pick that became Mahomes without mentioning the additional cost. The Mahomes pick did not become Allen and White. They didn't even use the Mahomes pick in the trade up. That became Edmunds. In truth THAT trade was Mahomes for White and Edmunds. Which NOBODY would do right now. I think Green Bay might trade Rodgers for Mahomes right now.? 2
Perry Turtle Posted September 24, 2018 Posted September 24, 2018 I don't know, could the Bills have drafted Mahomes and then traded back into the first for White? Or, would White have fallen into the second, which would have made it easier to trade up for him? Would you trade a '17 2nd and 3rd to get White (giving up Zay Jones)? And would the other '17 trades stay the same? Would the Bills been able to draft more help in the'18 draft at WR, or CB, or OL using the picks acquired in those trades to build the roster around Mahomes? It's difficult to decide, because Allen has always looked like a top level prospect, he is a franchise QB. Getting him help is now the number one objective, and giving up the picks in the past draft could slow that process. The cool thing that is happening though, is despite the path the front office has taken to build the roster, it looks like the staff can coach up talent. The team doesn't have to hit rock bottom to get better. That mentality over the first couple of weeks of the season, claiming it was part of the process, was just unacceptable. I mean bottoming out AFTER you draft your franchise QB, who does that?
NoSaint Posted September 24, 2018 Posted September 24, 2018 9 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: So if McDermott was a better coach like Andy Reid...........and if McDermott had kept Watkins (and perhaps Woods and Goodwin?) and drafted JuJu instead of Zay when he was serving as de facto GM .........then Allen would have thrown 10 TD's in his first two starts and had the Bills scoring close to 40 every week? Maybe so. But the old "I trust our coach and he shouldn't be questioned but our players would be better if we had THAT coach" argument never really made sense to me. The Bills had Mahomes in hand. He's REALLY good now. Hopefully it turns into an interesting story line in a few AFC championship matchups between KC and Buffalo someday. Next to Aaron Rodgers......Mahomes and Allen probably the most impressive physical skills of all the QB's in the NFL. Thank you on the coach/talent thing. It’s the most frustrating argument in this as we could have hired a variety of options at coach or GM. There’s a decent sized cross section that seems to think the choices that ownership and this regime made were totally forced on them and we couldn’t have looked different today with different choices. I wasn’t a big mahomes guy as much as a “it’s ok to question things” guy. It’s an interesting story line. 1
Chuck Wagon Posted September 24, 2018 Posted September 24, 2018 Right now Mahomes, but the talent he has vs the talent Allen has around him is completely incomparable. 1
Stank_Nasty Posted September 24, 2018 Posted September 24, 2018 Mahomes in this situation would look quite a bit different and almost assuredly not nearly as impressive skipping fast balls off KB’s gut. Give me Allen and white.
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted September 24, 2018 Posted September 24, 2018 (edited) if I were a chiefs fan, I'd be happy with mahomes. as a bills fan I am happy with josh and tre and look forward to their continued progression. Edited September 24, 2018 by no name 3
Soda Popinski Posted September 24, 2018 Posted September 24, 2018 Allen/Tre because we don't have Andy Reid.
dave mcbride Posted September 24, 2018 Posted September 24, 2018 14 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: There isn't really any parallel between Allen and Mahomes right now. Allen was pretty bad last week and pretty good this week. He's all hope and potential wrapped in 195 yards passing. Mahomes has been the NFL MVP so far and is blowing up the record books. I know some of you would watch bad football every day of the week if the Bills won 40% of those games but I personally can't unsee the "Tyrod and the turds" passing offense last year. I want the QB who throws 6 TD's and 0 picks. Been waiting for that for a quarter century. We are all thrilled to see Allen making plays with his feet and making some impressive throws.........but that same thing got old with Tyrod when it didn't become more. Until it becomes a lot more.........like Mahomes.........it's not a lot more. If anything I'd say that this question by the OP is out of context........these 2 QB's aren't in the same place right now and it's not really fair to compare Allen to Mahomes just yet. Re the 195 yards passing, there were four clear and obvious drops and no circus catches to counterbalance the drops. He should have thrown for 260+ and ~12 ypa.
Aaronthebaron Posted September 24, 2018 Posted September 24, 2018 Doesn’t this seem to be the pattern with Andy Reid teams (*see Alex Smith stats from beginning of last year) until teams figure out how to beat them by week 8? Let’s see how things look at the end of the season.
Yav Posted September 24, 2018 Posted September 24, 2018 (edited) Mahomes will be just as bad as Dak - eventually he will figure out he actually sucks and the Chefs will realize they really aren't all that great while Reid screws up. Who has KC actually beat? Chargers, Steelers and 49ers big deal. they gave up 28 to the chargers, 37 to the steelers and 27 to the 49ers. Edited September 24, 2018 by Yav
Malazan Posted September 24, 2018 Posted September 24, 2018 Right now, whomever comes with Tre White. We know nothing about Allen or Mahomes long term ability to be QBs in this league.
MAJBobby Posted September 24, 2018 Posted September 24, 2018 17 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: Asked this in the shout box and sparked and interesting convo and curious to what a larger group will think... Mahomes is off to an insanely hot start and Allen just showed some serious potential today too. Mahomes got to learn for a year and has the best stable of offensive weapons arguably in the NFL, so he has some advantages obviously in terms of where the two are at in development. But, by trading down last year, we got White and eventually picked up Allen this year through a series of trades. So...today, would you rather have Mahomes or the combo of Allen and Tre? Not speculating on what we could or couldn't have drafted...just focusing on these 3 guys since its all we know. Mahomes or both Allen and Tre? Call me a homer, but I still go Allen and Tre even though Mahomes has been as hot as it gets so far. Not a knock on Mahomes, just that I think Allen is going to be great himself and Tre is already an Elite corner IMO. So I will take the 2 great players over 1. Right now as of today and with the assumption that Mahomes is as good as he is and doesnt need Ried. The answer is Pat Mahomes. Now ask me at the end of the year that might change
BringBackOrton Posted September 24, 2018 Posted September 24, 2018 Mahomes is still the answer, ya'll are insane. This is the "would you trade EJ for Ryan Tannehill" topics all over again.
Recommended Posts