Why do people praise TD for not overpaying?

[coltrane34]

So we forget the Bills are overpaying MW, about $9 mil/year.

 

So much for managing the cap.  We are about up against in now.

281418[/snapback]

 

 

They are restructuring his contract as we speak

[BADOLBILZ]

Why are people always talking about how TD won't overpay for a player?  No gm wants to overpay for a player, but DeMulling seemed reasonably priced based on the contract he signed with Detroit and what other free agents were getting.  We are paying more than $3 million a year for Villarail and he is older (I think 32).  Is he the better player?

281380[/snapback]

 

Villarial is better than DeMulling. As for why TD is credited with being frugal, I'm not sure. If he wants to, he pays. I think, on paper, TD has been successful overall in FA as GM of the Bills. But that really just covers who he signed and who he let leave.

 

A big mistake, for example, was not signing Sam Adams following the 2001 season. The Bills contacted his agent Angelo Wright, but they weren't willing to talk any contract parameters prior to a visit, so he ended up signing with the Raiders for cheap. The 2002 Bills ended up being all offense, no defense. Adams presence probably would have meant playoffs for the Bills. Following that F-up, Donahoe dumped Centers, Riemersma and Peerless Price from that offense, essentially 3 of the 5 top playmakers, and did not replace them. On paper, he made the right calls. Adams, Spikes, Posey and Milloy were a success on D and the 3 pass targets did not do very well when they left. But he didn't replenish that offense, and the team once again missed the playoffs.

 

I have to wonder if he won't look smart for not overpaying Williams and Jennings, but at the same time still put a losing product on the field because he doesn't replace the impact they had with Buffalo. It's a concern to me that Donahoe talked about needing to upgrade the offensive line and the playmaking ability on offense when they cut Drew, and essentially all they've done is swap out Bledsoe and Jennings for Losman. To me, they NEED a TE. They NEED a WR with the potential to actually do something when called upon(unlike Aiken, Reed or F.Smith). They may not need a Pat Williams at DT, but they could use a big 2 gap run stuffer opposite Adams. Ron Edwards is promising, but not in that regard. I think the time is now to replace Posey.

 

I'm hoping like the Bills appear to be that guys like Dylan McFarland and Jason Peters step up under McNally's tutelage, but that's hardly all there is to it. I can easily envision another losing season, and a real bad one if McGahee or Moulds or Sam Adams gets hurt. They just don't appear to be leaving themselves much room for error.

[jahnyc]

They may restructure M. Williams' contract, but I doubt he will make less. They will likley convert some of his base into bonus, but not reduce the overall amounts of the contract.

[Coach Tuesday]

Villarial is better than DeMulling.  As for why TD is credited with being frugal, I'm not sure.  If he wants to, he pays.  I think, on paper, TD has been successful overall in FA as GM of the Bills.  But that really just covers who he signed and who he let leave.

 

  A big mistake, for example, was not signing Sam Adams following the 2001 season.  The  Bills contacted his agent Angelo Wright, but they weren't willing to talk any contract parameters prior to a visit, so he ended up signing with the Raiders for cheap.  The 2002 Bills ended up being all offense, no defense.  Adams presence probably would have meant playoffs for the Bills.  Following that F-up, Donahoe dumped Centers, Riemersma and Peerless Price from that offense, essentially 3 of the 5 top playmakers, and did not replace them.  On paper, he made the right calls.  Adams, Spikes, Posey and Milloy were a success on D and the 3 pass targets did not do very well when they left.  But he didn't replenish that offense, and the team once again missed the playoffs. 

 

  I have to wonder if he won't look smart for not overpaying Williams and Jennings, but at the same time still put a losing product on the field because he doesn't replace the impact they had with Buffalo.  It's a concern to me that Donahoe talked about needing to upgrade the offensive line and the playmaking ability on offense when they cut Drew, and essentially all they've done is swap out Bledsoe and Jennings for Losman.  To me, they NEED a TE.  They NEED a WR with the potential to actually do something when called upon(unlike Aiken, Reed or F.Smith).  They may not need a Pat Williams at DT, but they could use a big 2 gap run stuffer opposite Adams.  Ron Edwards is promising, but not in that regard.  I think the time is now to replace Posey. 

 

  I'm hoping like the Bills appear to be that guys like Dylan McFarland and Jason Peters step up under McNally's tutelage, but that's hardly all there is to it.  I can easily envision another losing season, and a real bad one if McGahee or Moulds or Sam Adams gets hurt.  They just don't appear to be leaving themselves much room for error.

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I think you hit the nail on the head, BADOL. But I'd add that part of the problem here is that TD's drafts have been inconsistent. He's found some stars, for sure, and some busts, for sure, but it's the in-between those extremes that's the problem: TD has drafted (or signed as UDFA) a slew of players who are quality special teamers but who just aren't able to step into the lineup if needed due to injury or to replace departed players. Examples: Neufeld, Crowell/Stamer/Haggan, Pucillo, Sobieski, KThomas, Wire, Reed, Aiken, Freddie, Burns, Sape, Edwards, Denney, etc. etc.

 

You look at the Pats and Eagles (and Steelers), they have guys like these who step up and play like starters when needed, not like permanent backups. The fact is, Posey's replacement should already be on the roster. So should Jennings. So should the left guard position. Then you run into cap troubles having to fill needs through free agency.

 

Bottom line: TD's drafts have been good, but not good enough.

[jahnyc]

I agree with you Coach Tuesday.

 

Our draft picks in the late rounds, other than McGee, have not been able to step up and start. If they could, it would balance the team in terms of overall economics. Other than McGee, I don't think we have any players that are starters that were drafted by TD in the fourth round or after.

[canbuffan34]

Why are people always talking about how TD won't overpay for a player?  No gm wants to overpay for a player, but DeMulling seemed reasonably priced based on the contract he signed with Detroit and what other free agents were getting.  We are paying more than $3 million a year for Villarail and he is older (I think 32).  Is he the better player?  I don't know, but clearly we pay market for our players, including free agents, just like every other team.  How much we are willing to pay in any given year depends on our need, the supply and demand for that position for that particular year and our salary cap situation.  It seems this year it is not about overpaying, but about how much flexibility we have under the salary cap.  Last year, we had more room and one could argue that we overpaid for Vincent and Villarail.

 

Overall, I think TD has done a good job with free agent acquisitions.  I am sure he would have loved to sign more free agents to fill holes this year, but our salary cap situation does not allow for that.

281380[/snapback]

Although I understand your position on this I adamantly disagree with you on Vincent! This guy was a top corner in the league, who I should remind you (shut down Jerry Rice in one-on-one coverage last year) who got moved to safety and performed equally as well while given limited time to learn the position! He IMO was worth every cent we paid him!!

[Navy Chief Navy Pride]

Although I understand your position on this I adamantly disagree with you on Vincent! This guy was a top corner in the league, who I should remind you (shut down Jerry Rice in one-on-one coverage last year) who got moved to safety and performed equally as well while given limited time to learn the position! He IMO was worth every cent we paid him!! 

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Jerry Rice is 92 years old!

[canbuffan34]

Jerry Rice is 92 years old!  

281626[/snapback]

HA! Agreed! But Vincent's gotta be 91 by now!

[Mark VI]

TD is working within a limited budget this year. Restructuring the Bledsoe contract last year cost us 4.2 Mil in cap $$ this off-season. Bills could have stuck with the original terms but at the time they had few options, despite the fact Bledsoe was coming off a dreadful 2003 campaign. Revisionist history on every move matter little now.

 

This Free Agency class was decent but hardly worth throwing big $$ at. The Bills can always find a good Vet for a 3rd WR. My thinking is Evans needs to start seeing the ball more than Moulds, who just doesn't have that burst anymore. I'm more worried about him getting hurt than Moulds. There was no decent backup available at RB. ( draft day pick)

 

TE is still a concern, though I would like to see Peters getting lots of playing time as a tackle eligible, lining up next to Williams. Just pound the ball to the right. Two guys weighing a combined 750 lbs. will move forward, just because they want to.

 

My concern is still the left side of the OL. Bills need to identify the Guard and OT on that side. Teague would be a last resort at LT and not the top option. With the NFL meetings starting today in Hawaii, I'm hoping TD talks directly to the Cardinals about Shelton. Either that or he must know something come draft day.

There are still a few Guards out there in FA. Bennie Anderson would be a good signing. Patience is tough this time of year but little question the Bills still have holes to address.

[IndyJay1234]

Why are people always talking about how TD won't overpay for a player?  No gm wants to overpay for a player, but DeMulling seemed reasonably priced based on the contract he signed with Detroit and what other free agents were getting.  We are paying more than $3 million a year for Villarail and he is older (I think 32).  Is he the better player?  I don't know, but clearly we pay market for our players, including free agents, just like every other team.  How much we are willing to pay in any given year depends on our need, the supply and demand for that position for that particular year and our salary cap situation.  It seems this year it is not about overpaying, but about how much flexibility we have under the salary cap.  Last year, we had more room and one could argue that we overpaid for Vincent and Villarail.

 

Overall, I think TD has done a good job with free agent acquisitions.  I am sure he would have loved to sign more free agents to fill holes this year, but our salary cap situation does not allow for that.

281380[/snapback]

 

Good job TD. Feel better?

[dave mcbride]

Because we didnt enjoy cap hell from Butler. Did you?

281386[/snapback]

cap hell meant the playoffs, typically. i don't enjoy consistently missing the playoffs. do you?

[Kelly the Dog]

cap hell meant the playoffs, typically.  i don't enjoy consistently missing the playoffs. do you?

281878[/snapback]

Actually, cap hell was not due to playoffs, it was due to dreams of Super Bowl win. The Bills grossly overpaid for a few of our own FA players to keep this team together to make one last SB run. If they played it smart they would have made the playoffs and not been in half the cap hell. But we paid Ken Irvin and Holecek and Ostroski and Rogers and Henry Jones much more than they were worth so we wouldn't deplete our talented roster. I think Panos may have been in there too as overspent but wasn't ours. It wasn't all the same year but it was all the same idea. It almost worked, but then the RJ and Music City Miracle incidents happened and screwed it up. Then we were millions and millions overspent and in cap hell, also due to the ridiculous contracts given to both RJ and Flutie when they were not necessary.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Actually, cap hell was not due to playoffs, it was due to dreams of Super Bowl win. The Bills grossly overpaid for a few of our own FA players to keep this team together to make one last SB run. If they played it smart they would have made the playoffs and not been in half the cap hell. But we paid Ken Irvin and Holecek and Ostroski and Rogers and Henry Jones much more than they were worth so we wouldn't deplete our talented roster. I think Panos may have been in there too as overspent but wasn't ours. It wasn't all the same year but it was all the same idea. It almost worked, but then the RJ and Music City Miracle incidents happened and screwed it up. Then we were millions and millions overspent and in cap hell, also due to the ridiculous contracts given to both RJ and Flutie when they were not necessary.

281935[/snapback]

 

And that team, despite making the playoffs, was going NOWHERE.

 

The only playoff appearances they made were as the bottom wildcard team.

 

They could never get better because they were constantly squeezed up against the cap.

[1billsfan]

If players like Losman, Evans and McGahee become stars, than of course we will have pressures in the near future to extend their contracts and pay the market rate for such players.  Although this is a good problem, it will further complicate our cap situation.

281413[/snapback]

 

You just answered your own question. This is precisely the reason why TD is not overpaying players. He will need all the cap dollars he can get for the big three future contracts. Overpaying for marginal players and giving them big signing bonuses assures you of saying bye bye to at least one of the big three down the road.

[Mickey]

Why are people always talking about how TD won't overpay for a player?  No gm wants to overpay for a player, but DeMulling seemed reasonably priced based on the contract he signed with Detroit and what other free agents were getting.  We are paying more than $3 million a year for Villarail and he is older (I think 32).  Is he the better player?  I don't know, but clearly we pay market for our players, including free agents, just like every other team.  How much we are willing to pay in any given year depends on our need, the supply and demand for that position for that particular year and our salary cap situation.  It seems this year it is not about overpaying, but about how much flexibility we have under the salary cap.  Last year, we had more room and one could argue that we overpaid for Vincent and Villarail.

 

Overall, I think TD has done a good job with free agent acquisitions.  I am sure he would have loved to sign more free agents to fill holes this year, but our salary cap situation does not allow for that.

281380[/snapback]

He has done well with a number of signings such as Fletcher and Spikes. Notice however that most of his best signings were guys he paid a lot of cash for, some might even say, "overpaid". Certainly, the teams that lost them and their fans might take that position as so many here have on players like Jennings, Pat Williams and Winfield. The FA's he has missed on are the guys he signed on the cheap, realitively speaking of course. Teague, Lindell and Campbell probably fit that bill though some would argue that Teague has been at least adequate.

 

If you "overpay" a guy who performs, I think that is something you can deal with. I think it is even worse to pay for a guy who doesn't perform even if the price tag is low, it is still a waste. Even a cheap contract can be too much for a loser.

[MRW]

Teague, Lindell and Campbell probably fit that bill though some would argue that Teague has been at least adequate.

282014[/snapback]

I would argue that Campbell hasn't been bad either, considering what we got him for and what we're paying him. Certainly we could use a real playmaker at the TE position but Campbell has been ok.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

Actually, cap hell was not due to playoffs, it was due to dreams of Super Bowl win. The Bills grossly overpaid for a few of our own FA players to keep this team together to make one last SB run. If they played it smart they would have made the playoffs and not been in half the cap hell. But we paid Ken Irvin and Holecek and Ostroski and Rogers and Henry Jones much more than they were worth so we wouldn't deplete our talented roster. I think Panos may have been in there too as overspent but wasn't ours. It wasn't all the same year but it was all the same idea. It almost worked, but then the RJ and Music City Miracle incidents happened and screwed it up. Then we were millions and millions overspent and in cap hell, also due to the ridiculous contracts given to both RJ and Flutie when they were not necessary.

281935[/snapback]

 

Add overpaying to keep Ruben Brown (for a couple of years he was the only guard in the top 10 OL salaries) and Jhn Fina (who had to be cut and really contributed to the cap problems with his accelerated bonus.

 

TD gets the rap for the Holocek and HJ errors in addition to any blame you want to assign Butler as one of his initial acts was to extend their contracts (and cap hits) and then he cut them leaving us to absorb the cost a longer time. If he cut them in the first place we would have had more cap room the next year, instead we paid them for two years for nothin.

 

I actually do not think that the Flutie extention was unnecessary given the mistake that Butler made signing RJ to a guranteed deal AFTER he had inked his deal with Flutie.

 

Butler set things up for a fall by giving RJ a big bonus only to see he course indivated by his injuries in Jax become a theme as this talented player went down to injury time and again.

 

Payinf Flutie and incentive laden contract was not a bad thing (though telling him when he signed he would have a fair shot at winning the starting job was simply made a lie with the RJ bonus and guarantee. The stupid thing which Butler did was to roll any incentives Flutie achieved into his base pay for the next year (a deal Flutie says he would have signed without having though who knows).

 

Flutie played exactly like we wanted our back-up to play when RJ went down. Unfortunately, once the full amount of incentives was achieved and applied to the next year's cap AND these incentives were rolled into his base pay, AND you added on the $5 million RJ cap hit which came wether he played or not, we had to restructure the Flutie deal or have $11+ million allocated for the 1999 QB cap hit (an amount which even today in 2005 would trail only the enormous $15 Manning QB hit and wildly outstrips 2005 hits for Favre (no. 2), McNabb (no. 6), and a plethora of overpaid turkey at QB).

 

The Bills did the only thing they could do which was to give Flutie a longer term deal and convert the base pay into bonus because the foolishly guranteed the RJ deal (my sense is that the Bills would have been better off dropping him or signing him to a much smaller deal if we had not resigned him and he suffered the injuries he suffered and Flutie took over. If in fact he had turned out to be a stud then fine as Flutie would not have played (and thus made his incetives and I think RJ would have signed at mid-season rather than take the risk of playing for FA if we sweetened the pot by giving him more money and if he was not injury prone I would have easily paid another $5 million to ink RJ).

 

The Flutie deal was a necessity in 1999 as even with the cap relief the new deal provided we still had to have cheaper rookies play ST and these rookies did not have the habit yet of staying their lanes.