Retired QB as a mentor?

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You’re right.  They couldn’t afford me but I’d volunteer my services because I love this team.

 

the Bills can put on clinics on how not to develop a qb properly.  I didn’t have high hopes for Allen but I thought they at least had a plan this time.  

 

 

 

....send resumes' to....

 

The Buffalo Bills

One Bills Drive

Orchard Park, NY 14127

Attention: Desperately In Need Of Voluntary Help Department

 

.......priority mail is $6.70      

[C.Biscuit97]

4 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

 

....send resumes' to....

 

The Buffalo Bills

One Bills Drive

Orchard Park, NY 14127

Attention: Desperately In Need Of Voluntary Help Department

 

.......priority mail is $6.70      

$6.70??? Do you have their email?

[gjv001]

Brought this point up yesterday, and suggested we hire a quality veteran QB, someone like Brett Farve. The Great Wizard of TBD stop the discussion, said the subject was already being discussed. Go figure.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

$6.70??? Do you have their email?

 

....www.OBDindesperatestraits.com...............SUBJECT LINE: FREE RESCUE....they're waiting.......have "call ahead seating"...........

[Buddo]

While not advocating this, seems to me that any former QB who did get hired in that sort of role, would be into the playbook and up to speed pdq.

 

Tbh, imho, teaching the fundamentals and the playbook isn't that difficult. What is difficult is getting the nuances of playing the position down, and understood. This, to me, is where veteran help should have been sought, and retained.

 

What I find borderline farcical, is that we've seen this exact same scenario play out once before, with EJ, when Kolb went down. Different regime, for sure, but the same fundamental mistake is being made.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, CDogg20 said:

I believe Jordan Palmer has taken Josh under his wing? Idk if he’s still in contact with him though 

 

I think in an interview Palmer said he had just talked to Allen (or maybe it was an Allen interview and said he just talked to Josh).

Hopefully the Bills and Allen have come to some agreement which allows Allen to talk to Palmer freely, at least about his technique.

[PlayoffsPlease]

Nothing is more over rated in sports than the concept of a QB mentor.   Being a washed up scrub does not fill someone with wisdom.  If your QB coach sucks, fire him and get another one. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

15 hours ago, Buddo said:

While not advocating this, seems to me that any former QB who did get hired in that sort of role, would be into the playbook and up to speed pdq.

 

Tbh, imho, teaching the fundamentals and the playbook isn't that difficult. What is difficult is getting the nuances of playing the position down, and understood. This, to me, is where veteran help should have been sought, and retained.

 

What I find borderline farcical, is that we've seen this exact same scenario play out once before, with EJ, when Kolb went down. Different regime, for sure, but the same fundamental mistake is being made.

 

 

...helluva slam dunk there bud......harkening back to the famed and valuable "Carolina Connection", Derek Anderson sat behind Cam for the last six years sippin' Coronas.....vet minimum is $1.015 mil and no longer guaranteed after game one....so he'd cost you $63,437 per game.....

Edited September 20, 2018 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[boater]

Is rookie QB development a proven shortfall of the Bills? If so, a surprise to me.

 

If QB coach Cullen is not doing the job, hire a new QB coach. This 3rd party mentoring is a joke.

 

Aside: Thank God, no one on my quick scan of the thread suggested Jim Kelly.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, ChicagoRic said:

Silly question. What is stopping the Buffalo Bills from hiring a retired QB on to the coaching staff to serve as a mentor to Josh Allen?

 

Kerry Collins?  Trent Green? Carson Palmer?

 

I'm baffled as to why the Buffalo Bills have not yet signed a veteran QB but barring that, is there any benefit to having a crusty old guy on the sidelines who has "been there and done that" who can mentor Allen between plays?

 

Yes, there would be a lot of benefit in having a vet mentor who is experienced in the offense Allen is running and could help him simplify it and break it down into the kind of game-time decisions he has to make.  But it has to be the right vet mentor - someone with a strong understanding of the game and the E-P offense, and who is able to take it to a higher level and simplify it accurately.  A great Field General is not always a great teacher, some of them react so instinctively they don't even know why they know what they do. 

 

What is stopping the Bills is that between the above restriction, and the fact that most of these guys are fabulously wealthy - even Trent Green has a net worth of $12M, Kerry Collins $40M, Carson Palmer $174M - and/or have other gigs (Beuerlein, Romo, even Jordan Palmer) - finding the right retired QB for the job would be not that simple at this point.

 

The total and complete mystery is why they didn't move the chains to bring in an actual vet last spring.

 

 

8 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

...helluva slam dunk there bud......harkening back to the famed and valuable "Carolina Connection", Derek Anderson sat behind Cam for the last six years sippin' Coronas.....vet minimum is $1.015 mil and no longer guaranteed after game one....so he'd cost you $63,437 per game.....GEICO money....put PeteredOUT on PS as ultimate desperation...poachers?...seriously?......

 

I've said this elsewhere....Derek Anderson has collected $24M in his 12 years in the league.  He's quite happy living in Carolina the last 7 years with his wife and kid, sipping what ever beverage he likes whenever he wants to on his own damn porch.  You might persuade him to relocate for a season for the right price......almost everyone has a price.

 

But vet minimum?  Vet minimum is not that price.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Great point--why have Culley on the payroll at all if he can't fulfill this type of job description adequately? While I in principle would have liked a cagey old vet on the roster to help Allen out like Darnold has in Jersey, at the end of the day the burden is on this coaching staff (Daboll, Culley in particular) to bring this kid's development along at a reasonable pace

 

Beuerlein addressed this in his WGR interview.   I'm not going to paraphrase him, I'll recast my understanding of what he said.

 

QBing is all about pattern recognition.  The QB goes in with a play, that has various options that should give him 1 or more mis-matches.

He needs to have in his mind, a pattern of where these might be, from knowing his guys and their assignment, watching film of this D, and pre-game planning.

Then he reads the D as he comes to the line - he needs to recognize the pattern and decide what that means again

Then he reads the D just before the snap - what happens when he puts a man in motion, position shifts.  Pattern recognition again.

 

Beuerlein's point was that a young QB needs to simplify.  He sees zone, with this play look to the right side.  He sees man, with this play look to the left side.

 

The point Beuerlein didn't mention that I think is true, is that the kind of pattern recognition a coach may use, is different than the kind of pattern recognition a QB needs at the line.  The cues may be different than they look on film or from the sideline.  The guy who has played, gets it.  The coach who has not played, may or may not get it.

 

That said, not all successful QB have a vet QB mentor on the sideline.  Some of the best QB playing today did not.

[Not at the table Karlos]

5 hours ago, CDogg20 said:

I believe Jordan Palmer has taken Josh under his wing? Idk if he’s still in contact with him though 

I thought I read somewhere that Josh still talks with jordan during the season. 

 

If Palmer were hired by the bills he would have limited contact with Allen. Being a private qb coach there's no limit on the time they can spend together. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

I thought I read somewhere that Josh still talks with jordan during the season. 

 

If Palmer were hired by the bills he would have limited contact with Allen. Being a private qb coach there's no limit on the time they can spend together. 

 

This is a super-good point. 

The CBA limits on off-season player-coach contact mean a QB driven to be good needs to have a private coach/mentor now a days

[CDogg20]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think in an interview Palmer said he had just talked to Allen (or maybe it was an Allen interview and said he just talked to Josh).

Hopefully the Bills and Allen have come to some agreement which allows Allen to talk to Palmer freely, at least about his technique.

This would be ideal

4 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

I thought I read somewhere that Josh still talks with jordan during the season. 

 

If Palmer were hired by the bills he would have limited contact with Allen. Being a private qb coach there's no limit on the time they can spend together. 

No sense in hiring him if Jordan is willing to help Josh for free...or out of Josh's pocket

[Not at the table Karlos]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

This is a super-good point. 

The CBA limits on off-season player-coach contact mean a QB driven to be good needs to have a private coach/mentor now a days

Qbs have been doing it for a while. The mannings used their old college coach David cutcliffe. Brady had Tom Martinez and Tom house. 

[BobbyC81]

4 hours ago, Buddo said:

 

What I find borderline farcical, is that we've seen this exact same scenario play out once before, with EJ, when Kolb went down. Different regime, for sure, but the same fundamental mistake is being made.

 

Back then, they didn't even have a QB coach.  Marrone/Hackett do have a QB coach now in Jacksonville, Scott Milanovich.   Some familiar names on that staff: Tony Sparano Jr,  Tyrone Wheatley, Chris Polian, DB coach Perry Fewell, strength & conditioning Tom Myslinski, DL Jason Rebrovich.

[BobbyC81]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

The total and complete mystery is why they didn't move the chains to bring in an actual vet last spring.

 

 

They did, the infamous AJ McCarron.

[T master]

WOuldn't you think he would ask Jim Kelly for some pointers if he needed it ? Anything that i have known of Jim & i had the pleasure of meeting him once at a game is that he is pretty straight forward !

 

I think if Jim was in a better place as far as his health is concerned he would give Allen all or any knowledge that he has picked up along the way during his career & it wouldn't be looked down upon because Jim is still a big part of the Bills organization !!

 

Or maybe he can go to Jim's QB camp he has every year !!?

Edited September 20, 2018 by T master

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

16 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

I guess we could hire EJ and then direct Josh to do the exact opposite of everything EJ suggests.

 

 

 

Oh but that hard count....

 

*sigh* EJ...  me buying that #3 jersey was the beginning of the end