Nihilarian Posted September 19, 2018 Posted September 19, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: You say this scenario usually means a guy ends up on the scrap heap, and name one guy. Brilliant. Did I really need to mention more than the one the article mentions? You don't watch football enough to know how many QBs the Cleveland Browns have drafted in the first round in their history to see that *nearly all of them have ended up on the scrap heap? Really? The entire league is littered with failed QBs that went to bad teams...oldmanfan... Edited September 19, 2018 by Nihilarian
dave mcbride Posted September 19, 2018 Posted September 19, 2018 Good piece. My favorite part is the most optimistic line here is Eric Wood saying that "disaster is not a foregone conclusion." LOL.
Chuck Wagon Posted September 19, 2018 Posted September 19, 2018 20 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: You say this scenario usually means a guy ends up on the scrap heap, and name one guy. Brilliant. Tim Couch, for one. It's a pretty tough argument to support either way. Guys who were never given a chance could just as easily be labeled as "not talented enough". But Goff is a pretty good recent example. His rookie year he was labeled a bust and pretty much written off. Gurley was also labeled a one year wonder. The Rams hired an innovative coach, completely overhauled their WR core and brought in a vet LT and Center, suddenly they are the best offense in football. Simply put, very few if any current "franchise QBs" around the league were put into a worse situation than Allen currently faces. However, many "never was / draft busts" faced similar circumstances. To pretend a guy should be so talented you can just roll the ball out there with anyone from day 1 and he'll make it work is one of the dumber things I've seen said on this forum. 2
elcrusho Posted September 19, 2018 Posted September 19, 2018 Kelly went 4-12 and was sacked 43 times his 1st season.....and also threw 17 interceptions 1
Pre1236 Posted September 19, 2018 Posted September 19, 2018 Allen is in a terrible situation - to say otherwise is disingenuous. Doesn't mean he won't be successful but, if you are honest, can you imagine a worse situation for a prospect? Especially a prospect who is largely considered "raw". How this organization thought it made sense to enter the season with Allen and Peterman as the only two QBs is downright alarming. 4 1
dave mcbride Posted September 19, 2018 Posted September 19, 2018 11 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: You say this scenario usually means a guy ends up on the scrap heap, and name one guy. Brilliant. Tim Couch too, and there is a connecting thread between him and Carr: both were day one starters for truly terrible (worse than even the current Bills) expansion teams. It's also worth remembering that after Carolina and Jax's surprisingly early success after coming into the league, owners essentially vowed to never let that happen again.
TheElectricCompany Posted September 19, 2018 Author Posted September 19, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, elcrusho said: Kelly went 4-12 and was sacked 43 times his 1st season.....and also threw 17 interceptions He did a little better when we asked him to give the ball to 3 HOFers Edited September 19, 2018 by TheElectricCompany
dave mcbride Posted September 19, 2018 Posted September 19, 2018 1 minute ago, elcrusho said: Kelly went 4-12 and was sacked 43 times his 1st season.....and also threw 17 interceptions Not the best comparison because he played three years with decent talent around him plus a complex offensive scheme in the USFL.
John from Riverside Posted September 19, 2018 Posted September 19, 2018 Looked pretty decent while he was running around from all those wolves
Nihilarian Posted September 19, 2018 Posted September 19, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, elcrusho said: Kelly went 4-12 and was sacked 43 times his 1st season.....and also threw 17 interceptions Look back at that team. Kelly had LT Ken Jones, LG Jim Richter, C Kent Hull, RG Will Wolford, RT Joe Devlin. Pretty gosh darn good line in my view. Pete Metz, Andre Reed to throw to and Rob Riddick Ronnie Harmon at RB. 4-12 huh, Hank Bullough was the HC for 9 games that year. Edited September 19, 2018 by Nihilarian
BillsVet Posted September 19, 2018 Posted September 19, 2018 Marv Levy said something long ago to the effect of if you listen to the fans, you'll wind up sitting next to them in the stands. The writer of that article didn't consider that apparently. 37 minutes ago, Juice_32 said: Yep. People use the term "thrown to the wolves" as if it is always a bad thing. Everyone has situations in their life where they have been "thrown to the wolves". Sometimes you get eaten alive yes, but sometimes you step up like you did not know you were capable of. Most situations in my life where I have really grown as a human being were just such situations. This. I was set up to fail multiple times in the military and learned better through adversity than having an easy or only slightly challenging situation. I think Allen's been dealing with plenty of adversity, professionally speaking, since he was a kid. Getting to a D-1 school, succeeding there without a top supporting cast, and then being drafted demonstrates this. He's got a bigger challenge now, and while it's not under ideal circumstances, it's not a fait accompli that he'll fail because his predecessors did. Besides, the idea that he'll fail because Manuel, Edwards, and Losman did is just Bills fans conditioned to pessimism. It's a defensive mechanism if things go wrong and we want to say we're right. I've got more faith in that kid that anyone Buffalo's drafted at QB in a long time. 1 1
dave mcbride Posted September 19, 2018 Posted September 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, Nihilarian said: Look back at that team. Kelly had LT Ken Jones, LG Jim Richter, C Kent Hull, RG Will Wolford, RT Joe Devlin. Pretty gosh darn good line in my view. Pete Metz, Andre Reed to throw to and Rob Riddick Ronnie Harmon at RB. 4-12 huh, Hank Bullough was the HC for 9 games that year. Kelly actually had a good year - a 112 QB+ rating (100 being average). He wasn't the reason they went 4-12. The D forced the fewest turnovers in the league that year and was in the bottom regions for points and yards allowed. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KellJi00.htm
iinii Posted September 19, 2018 Posted September 19, 2018 14 minutes ago, Pre1236 said: Allen is in a terrible situation - to say otherwise is disingenuous. Doesn't mean he won't be successful but, if you are honest, can you imagine a worse situation for a prospect? Especially a prospect who is largely considered "raw". How this organization thought it made sense to enter the season with Allen and Peterman as the only two QBs is downright alarming. Why is this so difficult for some people to realize? 1
dave mcbride Posted September 19, 2018 Posted September 19, 2018 13 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said: He did a little better when we asked him to give the ball to 3 HOFers As I said above, he was objectively good in his first season. 1
baskingridgebillsfan Posted September 19, 2018 Posted September 19, 2018 Spending money on the defense and not spending to help the young qb was a horrible decision
BmarvB Posted September 19, 2018 Posted September 19, 2018 54 minutes ago, No Place To Hyde said: Well, if you draw up a situation for ANY rookie QB to come into this is not a place that screams "mold a young QB" -No vet QB on roster to help in film room -Culley the QB coach that specializes in WRs -Daboll no track record of developing a QB -Horrible oline in front of him -Not good weapons around him -Defense minded Head Coach I do think however Allen is going to be a good one. One thing I think works in his favor is he's playing the Chargers, Vikings and other top defenses right away. Getting his feet wet against a tsunami so to speak. 2nd half of the year I can really see him slow the game down against the "middle of the pack" defenses and start to shine. Completely agree. They've done an irresponsible, incompetent job of giving him what he needs to succeed this season. I do think he's going to get better despite not having much to work with. 3
dave mcbride Posted September 19, 2018 Posted September 19, 2018 Continuing a point: Kelly finished 8th in the league in passer rating and 5th in TD passes in his first season: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1986/passing.htm.
jr1 Posted September 19, 2018 Posted September 19, 2018 he's a grown man. Kylian Mbappe played in the world cup final at 19
PromoTheRobot Posted September 19, 2018 Posted September 19, 2018 (edited) I'm so happy that the media gives us a clear direction on how to develop players like Josh Allen. Start him, don't start him, he's great, he's a bust. Clear as mud. Edited September 19, 2018 by PromoTheRobot
baskingridgebillsfan Posted September 19, 2018 Posted September 19, 2018 I think Mr bean needs to face the media and explain why he did what he did
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