Vlad Ducasse...NFLs best pass blocker?

[YoloinOhio]

2 hours ago, Commonsense said:

I thought they looked ok. Miller really struggles if they run a stunt or something in front of him. A few times Allen was running for his life and Miller never engaged a defender. 

Miller was terrible week 1, Vlad was fine. Miller better week 2. Groy is the worst. They are all borderline starters on the interior to begin with but do need time to gel. 

Edited September 18, 2018 by YoloinOhio

[GunnerBill]

Just now, JohnC said:

Collectively they are not good. But Rivers demonstrated that even when going against a good pass rush quick recognition and release to the safety valve makes a major difference. I thought that Rivers was masterful in doing that, especially in the first half. Having an experienced qb (also HOF qb) sure helps the stats (grading) of the linemen. 

 

Rivers put on a clinic 1st half. 

[JohnC]

Just now, YoloinOhio said:

Miller was terrible week 1, Vlad was fine. Miller better week 2. Groy is the worst. They all borderline starters to begin with but do need time to gel. 

The Rams brought in two offensive linemen last year to help out Goff. And they also added quality receivers. I'm hoping that with our cap space and full complement of picks help can be brought in to support the qb. 

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Rivers put on a clinic 1st half. 

This HOF qb was magnificent. A good bar room discussion is whether the Chargers got the better of the deal when they traded with the Giants in that draft that got the New Yorkers Eli. Although Eli has garnered two SB wins I believe that Rivers is the better qb. 

 

On the other hand Rivers constant chirping sometimes gets on my nerves and sometimes makes me laugh.  

[1billsfan]

I think that you will see improvement from the offensive line with each game played. Have to remember the Bills have a new offensive coordinator and system, they lost two solid starting veteran offensive lineman, and there's much less practice time than before due to the CBA which is probably most significantly effects the QBs and the offensive line. You can see the same issues going on with the Giants offensive line. These factor put teams like us and them at a major disadvantage, the teams that are doing well have had the systems and offensive line in place for a while.

 

 

Edited September 18, 2018 by 1billsfan

[ColoradoBills]

1 hour ago, Kelly the Dog said:

So reading this thread, DuCasse, Miller, Dawkins and Mills are all really good. Hmmmm...

 

yep

 

Ducasse is perfect trade bait right now.

Trade him to Seattle for a 2nd.

LOL

2 minutes ago, 1billsfan said:

I think that you will see improvement from the offensive line with each game played. Have to remember the Bills have a new offensive coordinator and system, they lost two solid starting veteran offensive lineman, and there's much less practice time than before due to the CBA which is probably most significantly effects the QBs and the offensive line. You can see the same issues going on with the Giants offensive line. These factor put teams like us and them at a major disadvantage, the teams that are doing well have had the systems and offensive line in place for a while.

 

 

 

I think the Vikings are going to have a field day against the OL this week.

[1billsfan]

14 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

yep

 

Ducasse is perfect trade bait right now.

Trade him to Seattle for a 2nd.

LOL

 

I think the Vikings are going to have a field day against the OL this week.

 

I'd keep Josh in the shotgun the whole game and do a lot of RPOs, screens and roll out stuff. Forget taking snaps under center for this game.

 

[BurpleBull]

27 minutes ago, Best Player Available said:

all,the new Mills fans may have had a hiccup if Bosa had played Sunday. 

 

What do you mean by "new" Mills' fans?

 

Not every fan trashes its players straightaway or has a hard time seeing what they offer simply because they aren't elite-level talent.

 

Mills held up pretty well against Terrell Suggs, so who can say?

43 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

 

Of the 5 starters so far I would put Dawkins 4th in performance to this juncture. Before watching Sunday back I'd have probably gone 3rd but I have Miller slightly above him. Is a big drop aftet him to Groy though. Groy has been mauled both games. Wouldn't be stunned if McDermott announced on Wednesday that they are going to Bodine. 

 

The run blocking is to the left of the line. I don't expect them to make a change at guard yet. I do think one at center is imminent. 

 

How would you rank the starting linemen?

 

I'm going

 

1. Mills

1a. Dawkins

2. Miller

3. Ducasse

 

9. Groy

[JackKemp]

3 hours ago, MJS said:

He actually did fine last year. He had some rough showings in preseason and early on, but ultimately did ok.

 

He has his fair share of detractors, though.

 

The article states that Ducasse and Miller combined have only surrendered one pressure through two games, although Miller has taken a bunch of penalties.

 

Groy seems to be the big problem.

Although the popular opinion is that the guards are terrible I believe the issue is at center. One play was the best example. The one where the whole went into action and Groy didn’t hike the ball. Miller got all fired up. Our centers are horrible. Saw it all preseason as well. Constantly knocked on their buts. Wasn’t it Groy who got rocked onto Shady to hurt Shady’s ribs?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 hours ago, CDogg20 said:

Through two weeks he’s been ranked as PFFs #1 pass blocker. Personally I think he’s trash and hasn’t passed the eye test at all but I know many people here hold PFF in high regard

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/billswire.usatoday.com/2018/09/18/buffalo-bills-vlad-ducasse-john-miller-brian-daboll-pff/amp/ 

 

I don't understand how PFF grades OLmen and OL

 

In general, when an OL is good, their team's RB dont drop in YPA and their team's QB doesn't get hit more and sacked more.

Somehow, OLs that allow less YPA and more hits/sacks can actually go UP in their PFF rating

Makes sense ...... NOT

[Saxum]

7 hours ago, clayboy54 said:

In other news... TBD has the most knowledgeable posters on the planet.

 

Yeah I remember a shining example of a poser who wanted to trade our starting DE for Arizona's backup QB.  Even got a poll going and many of the most knowledgeable posers voted for trade.  Ralph made him look senile.

7 hours ago, CDogg20 said:

Agreed the run game has been a joke, gone downhill drastically over the last few years. It was once our calling card. Castillo has hurt this team but he’s not going anywhere anytime soon unfortunately. Hopefully we get some good olinemen in the draft and free agency

 

A NFL coach should be able to keep anyone on rosters.  This was proved so well with the Dan Quayle of coaches, Ronnie Jones.

[BobbyC81]

7 hours ago, VW82 said:

Here's Daboll referencing Allen and Peterman holding the ball too long and struggling to diagnose the rush pre-snap.

 

“More than half of those sacks aren’t the offensive line,” Daboll said, referencing to quarterbacks Josh Allen and Nathan Peterman holding onto the ball too long during the first two weeks of the season. “We can do a good job with setting the table, getting things set to where we need to get them set to. Those guys have protected inside out for the most part in pass protection. There have been some free runners that you guys have seen. It’s not all on the line, no question about it.”

 

I'm a broken record at this point, but even the OC is publicly acknowledging it. Let's stop blaming the o-line for everything.

 

The broadcasters in this last game showed 2 or 3 times when Allen didn’t recognize the blitz or call out the protection.  I also watched NFL Primetime and they went over a couple of plays like the 2nd INT where there was a safety valve Allen should’ve thrown to.

[Sherlock Holmes]

8 hours ago, teef said:

i've had the weirdest day at work.  the bill's new has been amazingly weird.  i have a dinner tonight...i wonder if i should even go.

To cap it off you are being taken to Applebees?

[Freddie's Dead]

 

 

Edited September 19, 2018 by Freddie's Dead

[papazoid]

GROY   SUCKS !!

 

1st play - totally wiffs on block to NT who was directly in front of him. laid on ground entire play

2nd play - uncovered he attempts to block LB who easily sheds him

3rd play - easily beat to his left side , but had help from LG (punt)

 

4th play - uncovered, helped RG, didn't do much

5th play- totally whiffed on block to LB (allen sacked)

6th play - blocked ok, defender made it easy by turning his back (punt)

 

7th play - blocked good

8th play- helped by LG they double teamed 1 guy

9th play - got pushed back, then holding

10th play - rolled left, was in way of and got knocked to ground by his own teammate from behind

11th play - slide left. had help from RG double team 1 guy

12th play - wiffs on block (big shady run called back holding Mills)

13th play- blocks no one, then finally two hand chip shoves defender (allen escapes rolls left)

14th play - uses wing span arm extension to ineffectively barely touch  defender from each side 

 

 

i've seen enough....he sucks

[Buffalo Barbarian]

11 hours ago, CDogg20 said:

Through two weeks he’s been ranked as PFFs #1 pass blocker. Personally I think he’s trash and hasn’t passed the eye test at all but I know many people here hold PFF in high regard

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/billswire.usatoday.com/2018/09/18/buffalo-bills-vlad-ducasse-john-miller-brian-daboll-pff/amp/ 

 

That's it, pff is worse than Bleacher report ever was.

 

 

10 hours ago, VW82 said:

Here's Daboll referencing Allen and Peterman holding the ball too long and struggling to diagnose the rush pre-snap.

 

“More than half of those sacks aren’t the offensive line,” Daboll said, referencing to quarterbacks Josh Allen and Nathan Peterman holding onto the ball too long during the first two weeks of the season. “We can do a good job with setting the table, getting things set to where we need to get them set to. Those guys have protected inside out for the most part in pass protection. There have been some free runners that you guys have seen. It’s not all on the line, no question about it.”

 

I'm a broken record at this point, but even the OC is publicly acknowledging it. Let's stop blaming the o-line for everything.

 

No 

 

 

[Bakin]

11 hours ago, MJS said:

He actually did fine last year. He had some rough showings in preseason and early on, but ultimately did ok.

 

He has his fair share of detractors, though.

 

The article states that Ducasse and Miller combined have only surrendered one pressure through two games, although Miller has taken a bunch of penalties.

 

Groy seems to be the big problem.

This blows me away. 

I see the right side getting blown up constantly or so I thought. 

Maybe some TE or RB missing the extra attacker?

[vincec]

Enough passing.

 

They have a rookie QB with the worst wide receiving corps in the league and they are passing 80% of the time. Meanwhile, they have a top running back and one of the best running games over the last three years sitting mostly unused. When they do run, Marcus Murphy gets almost as many snaps as Shady. This doesn't sound logical to me, but apparently I'm not an offensive genius like Daboll.

Edited September 19, 2018 by vincec

[par73]

13 hours ago, matter2003 said:

Joe B at WKBW said Miller stood out this week in the All 22 as being very good...said he was surprised because it didnt appear that way when he watched live, but said Miller controlled his man almost all game.

Saw that, and was shocked. The main problem is the QB, in this view. You have to read and deliver the ball fast in the NFL. That, coupled with some accuracy issues from Allen (Buscaglia mentioned footwork problems again), and you can see where the main problems lie.

Hopefully Allen learns from experience and continues to work on mechanics. He is still plagued by deficiencies that held him back in college.

[BigBuff423]

I don't agree with PFF at all on this one, as many of us don't, but what I do think we can value is a balanced perspective. A way of not just saying, "Oh, he sucks!" because we see him struggling, but also looking at objective data. PFF relies too much on analytics IMHO, but they do use a grading system to help remove some of the subjectivity involved in evaluation. To that end, what I think we could take from this is that while it's obvious the Offensive line is struggling, some players are doing their part and some are contributing to the problem. On one sack this past weekend it was really, really clear even to a laymen like myself that the TE completely whiffed on his block of a blitzer and nobody picked him up and he had a straight shot to Allen. Offensive line wasn't responsible for blocking that guy as the TE lined up directly across from him and he was supposed to do a better job at blocking are at least chipping the guy to knock him off his line to Allen. 

 

This provides some objective balance. There's merit in that alone.

[Dablitzkrieg]

15 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Daboll said that most were from Allen holding on to the ball too long. He had well over 3 seconds to throw on average 

He actually said QB's, not Allen.  I am assuming Peterman is attributed to many as well