Vlad Ducasse...NFLs best pass blocker?

[BurpleBull]

Just now, Happy Gilmore said:

 

Yes, like Peterman is the most underrated Bills QB.

 

You won't acknowledge Mills' value until media tells you it's okay to...but that's okay.

[metzelaars_lives]

2 minutes ago, CDogg20 said:

Yes I randomly picked Ducasse. I just needed to rip into somebody to feel good about myself today much like youself. Go take a xanax. 

You didn't answer my question.  What eye test?  When I watch a Bills game, I follow the ball.  Do you not?  Are you watching the linemen block while the QB drops back to pass and throws the ball?  If you rewatch the games and watch each lineman on every play, then that's awesome.  Do you?  And Xanax is awesome, especially with a couple drinks.

1 minute ago, BurpleBull said:

 

You won't acknowledge Mills' value until media tells you it's okay to...but that's okay.

Exactly.  

Edited September 18, 2018 by metzelaars_lives

[CDogg20]

1 minute ago, metzelaars_lives said:

You didn't answer my question.  What eye test?  When I watch a Bills game, I follow the ball.  Do you not?  Are you watching the linemen block while the QB drops back to pass and throws the ball?  If you rewatch the games and watch each lineman on every play, then that's awesome.  Do you?  And Xanax is awesome, especially with a couple drinks.

Exactly.  

Do I really need to explain what an eye test is? Whenever there is a frustrating play whether it is a penalty or pressure it comes from number 62 or 76. Ducasse is stood up on a regular basis and pushed back into the face of whoever the qbs is. 

 

 

I do go back and rewatch as many games as I can which is usually a good amount of them. I haven’t had the stomach to rewatch them this year though. What I watch live varies on play to play depending on pre snap motion. 

 

 

 

Yes xanax is amazing, always takes the edge off for me lol

[Gray Beard]

Where’s @Bocephuz?

I always enjoyed his informal, non-expert, highly informative, complete, and easy to follow breakdowns of line play.

 

No sarcasm intended.  I’m being serious.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Gray Beard

[Kelly the Dog]

So reading this thread, DuCasse, Miller, Dawkins and Mills are all really good. Hmmmm...

[Comebackkid]

1 hour ago, No Place To Hyde said:

Your user name backwards is feet. Another weird occourence.

Don't tell Rex

[947]

Watching the All-22, I was suprised to see Ducasse block really well on a couple pass plays. Now he was awful on some other plays & was really bad at run blocking, but he's definitely not our worst O-lineman. Groy & Miller are definitely worse.

 

Mills was actually decent, especially pass blocking.

[metzelaars_lives]

1 minute ago, CDogg20 said:

Do I really need to explain what an eye test is? Whenever there is a frustrating play whether it is a penalty or pressure it comes from number 62 or 76. Ducasse is stood up on a regular basis and pushed back into the face of whoever the qbs is. 

 

 

I do go back and rewatch as many games as I can which is usually a good amount of them. I haven’t had the stomach to rewatch them this year though. What I watch live varies on play to play depending on pre snap motion. 

 

 

 

Yes xanax is amazing, always takes the edge off for me lol

Yeah we're not arguing.  As someone who does not rewatch the games, I can tell you whether or not we have good pass protection and good run blocking.  I couldn't tell you whose fault each pressure is unless they show a replay, which they usually do not.  Last game, the pass protection was as bad as I've ever seen in the first half and shockingly good in the second half.  I couldn't even begin to tell you who was good and bad on the line.  Kelvin Benjamin sucks, that I can tell you.  When it comes to the line, I have come to trust sources like PFF and Joe B.  They have both been saying that Ducasse is good since last year.  Meanwhile, guys with thick Buffalo accents are calling into GR and saying, "take out Ducasse and move Groy to guard," when everyone who actually pays attention is saying that Ducasse is actually good and Groy is a disaster.  So naturally, I'm like, what is everyone's problem with Ducasse?  

[CDogg20]

12 minutes ago, metzelaars_lives said:

Yeah we're not arguing.  As someone who does not rewatch the games, I can tell you whether or not we have good pass protection and good run blocking.  I couldn't tell you whose fault each pressure is unless they show a replay, which they usually do not.  Last game, the pass protection was as bad as I've ever seen in the first half and shockingly good in the second half.  I couldn't even begin to tell you who was good and bad on the line.  Kelvin Benjamin sucks, that I can tell you.  When it comes to the line, I have come to trust sources like PFF and Joe B.  They have both been saying that Ducasse is good since last year.  Meanwhile, guys with thick Buffalo accents are calling into GR and saying, "take out Ducasse and move Groy to guard," when everyone who actually pays attention is saying that Ducasse is actually good and Groy is a disaster.  So naturally, I'm like, what is everyone's problem with Ducasse?  

Yeah I get it, the whole board has been a little on edge lately. I’ve been coming here for about 15 years (only posting for about 10) but I don’t know if i’ve ever seen people so touchy.

 

The whole interior is definitely a mess, but they did look better in the 2nd half. It needs to be completely reworked next season, I still have faith in Dawkins but that’s it.

 

KB has so much talent but just can’t seem to put it together which is so frustrating. After his rookie campaign he’s been trash. Unfortunately he is the best we have, I think Zay will grow with Allen at the helm too. I liked how he came back for that deep ball and fought off the corner, the bobble made my heart drop.

 

Usually I agree with the PFF grades but in this case I couldn’t disagree more

[billsfan1959]

8 minutes ago, CDogg20 said:

Yeah I get it, the whole board has been a little on edge lately. I’ve been coming here for about 15 years (only posting for about 10) but I don’t know if i’ve ever seen people so touchy.

 

The whole interior is definitely a mess, but they did look better in the 2nd half. It needs to be completely reworked next season, I still have faith in Dawkins but that’s it.

 

KB has so much talent but just can’t seem to put it together which is so frustrating. After his rookie campaign he’s been trash. Unfortunately he is the best we have, I think Zay will grow with Allen at the helm too. I liked how he came back for that deep ball and fought off the corner, the bobble made my heart drop.

 

Usually I agree with the PFF grades but in this case I couldn’t disagree more

This board is ridiculous right now.

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, MJS said:

He actually did fine last year. He had some rough showings in preseason and early on, but ultimately did ok.

 

He has his fair share of detractors, though.

 

The article states that Ducasse and Miller combined have only surrendered one pressure through two games, although Miller has taken a bunch of penalties.

 

Groy seems to be the big problem.

 

Groy has been by far our worst OL. I was on board with him over Bodine. Now I think I'd consider a change. 

53 minutes ago, BurpleBull said:

 

You won't acknowledge Mills' value until media tells you it's okay to...but that's okay.

 

Mills has been the best player on our line so far overall. 

[metzelaars_lives]

18 minutes ago, CDogg20 said:

Yeah I get it, the whole board has been a little on edge lately. I’ve been coming here for about 15 years (only posting for about 10) but I don’t know if i’ve ever seen people so touchy.

 

The whole interior is definitely a mess, but they did look better in the 2nd half. It needs to be completely reworked next season, I still have faith in Dawkins but that’s it.

 

KB has so much talent but just can’t seem to put it together which is so frustrating. After his rookie campaign he’s been trash. Unfortunately he is the best we have, I think Zay will grow with Allen at the helm too. I liked how he came back for that deep ball and fought off the corner, the bobble made my heart drop.

 

Usually I agree with the PFF grades but in this case I couldn’t disagree more

Look, if anyone on here goes back and rewatches every lineman on every play then I will value their opinion as much as Joe Buscaglia's.  I don't have time to do it myself.  And I don't think he knows any more about football than me but I think anyone would discover that their opinions on what they think they know about individual players would be wildly different if they went back and watched the game tape.  I trust that when PFF and Joe B are both saying that Ducasse is playing well, that he is.

[Rico]

1 hour ago, metzelaars_lives said:

What "eye test?"  You went back and broke down the game film like PFF and Joe Buscaglia, who also watches every play and has graded him highly last year and this year?  Why do people just randomly pick Ducasse as the guy they don't like?  It's truly bizarre.  I think we all know what a good QB, RB, WR, etc. looks like but this confirms my longstanding opinion that none of you have any idea what you're talking about when it comes to offensive linemen.

Usually what happens is some self-appointed, vocal 'experts' start crying when a team signs a player they don't like because they've read bad things about him on the internet. After that, all it takes is an announcer slamming said player on TV for a bad play or 2 while showing the replay, and voila, whipping boy! If he's pointed out for a bad play in a couple games, BIG whipping boy... and yes, I do speak from experience.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, metzelaars_lives said:

Look, if anyone on here goes back and rewatches every lineman on every play then I will value their opinion as much as Joe Buscaglia's.  I don't have time to do it myself.  And I don't think he knows any more about football than me but I think anyone would discover that their opinions on what they think they know about individual players would be wildly different if they went back and watched the game tape.  I trust that when PFF and Joe B are both saying that Ducasse is playing well, that he is.

 

I have just watched this week back myself. Still having real trouble running anywhere but off right tackle (Miller and Mills are doing a nice job that side Dawkins and Ducasse less so on the left). The pass protection issues are primarily that our center is getting blown up play after play and because free rushers are coming up the middle the Quarterback has to move off his spot and on occasion has moved into sacks where actually the tackle and guards have held up pretty well initially. 

 

Add to that Josh is holding it too long, looking for too many hollywood balls and is not yet comfortable making quick decisions to get to his hots or his checkdowns and he and Groy between them are just not identifying the right blitzers on some plays too. 

 

I would say last week our line play was bad. This week I would say it was adequate for the most part. Groy is a gamewrecking issue and a rookie QB taking his lumps - those are the two biggest contributory factors for the perceived line struggles to this point. 

5 minutes ago, Rico said:

Usually what happens is some self-appointed, vocal 'experts' start crying when a team signs a player they don't like because they've read bad things about him on the internet. After that, all it takes is an announcer slamming said player on TV for a bad play or 2 while showing the replay, and voila, whipping boy! If he's pointed out for a bad play in a couple games, BIG whipping boy... and yes, I do speak from experience.

 

I will confess I hated the Ducasse signing and hated him being put in last year. I held that opinion until about the last 6 games last year when I thought he played pretty well to end the season. I still think we need an upgrade long term but have defended him against some of the more crazed criticism since last season finished. 

[BurpleBull]

19 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Groy has been by far our worst OL. I was on board with him over Bodine. Now I think I'd consider a change. 

 

Mills has been the best player on our line so far overall. 

 

That surprises me only because I expected Dawkins to display significant growth from his rookie season, which he hasn't thus far, but outside of that it doesn't surprise me.

 

I think it was with 3rd and 12 that I was having a discussion with during the offseason concerning Jordan Mills. I was saying how Mills was solid, underrated, not nearly as bad as many fans hold him to be. Many of the opinions formed on Mills seem to be due to lazy analysis based on seasons past.

[26TrapDraw]

2 hours ago, Ittakestime said:

Groy has definitely been an issue at center.  Wouldn't mind seeing if Bodine is any better.

Or at least put Groy in Miller's spot at guard bodine at Center. Or give Teller baptism by ?too. We gotta get a better run blocking combo. Get shady going opens up the PAP for Allen. Right now they can't block an eighth grader.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, BurpleBull said:

 

That surprises me only because I expected Dawkins to display significant growth from his rookie season, which he hasn't thus far, but outside of that it doesn't surprise me.

 

I think it was with 3rd and 12 that I was having a discussion with during the offseason concerning Jordan Mills. I was saying how Mills was solid, underrated, not nearly as bad as many fans hold him to be. Many of the opinions formed on Mills seem to be due to lazy analysis based on seasons 

 

 

Of the 5 starters so far I would put Dawkins 4th in performance to this juncture. Before watching Sunday back I'd have probably gone 3rd but I have Miller slightly above him. Is a big drop aftet him to Groy though. Groy has been mauled both games. Wouldn't be stunned if McDermott announced on Wednesday that they are going to Bodine. 

Just now, BeefCurtns said:

Or at least put Groy in Miller's spot at guard bodine at Center. Or give Teller baptism by ?too. We gotta get a better run blocking combo. Get shady going opens up the PAP for Allen. Right now they can't block an eighth grader.

 

The run blocking is to the left of the line. I don't expect them to make a change at guard yet. I do think one at center is imminent. 

[vincec]

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Daboll said that most were from Allen holding on to the ball too long. He had well over 3 seconds to throw on average 

Actually, what he said was that more than half of the sacks weren't the offensive line's fault. He didn't say who's fault they were. I.e., how many were due to Allen holding the ball, the RBs not picking up blitzers, the WRs not making blitz adjustments, etc. It actually sounded to me that he thought the biggest issue was Allen not seeing the impending blitz in the defensive alignment and making the adjustments with the WRs as a result.

 

[Best Player Available]

14 minutes ago, BurpleBull said:

 

That surprises me only because I expected Dawkins to display significant growth from his rookie season, which he hasn't thus far, but outside of that it doesn't surprise me.

 

I think it was with 3rd and 12 that I was having a discussion with during the offseason concerning Jordan Mills. I was saying how Mills was solid, underrated, not nearly as bad as many fans hold him to be. Many of the opinions formed on Mills seem to be due to lazy analysis based on seasons past.

all,the new Mills fans may have had a hiccup if Bosa had played Sunday. 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, Kelly the Dog said:

So reading this thread, DuCasse, Miller, Dawkins and Mills are all really good. Hmmmm...

Collectively they are not good. But Rivers demonstrated that even when going against a good pass rush quick recognition and release to the safety valve makes a major difference. I thought that Rivers was masterful in doing that, especially in the first half. Having an experienced qb (also HOF qb) sure helps the stats (grading) of the linemen.