Tyrod Taylor finally unleashed in a "competent offense with weapons."

[Rocky Landing]

6 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

I'm sorry, would you like another topic entitled "McD has lost this team AND I'M NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE!!" filled with prose that is the literary equivalent of diarrhea?

What did you think this thread was?

[Bing Bong]

58 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

Fitz hung 20,000 yards on the Saints the week before.  

 

Tyrod hovered around 100 all day and made a few lucky plays at the end to end up with a whopping 240 yards ???. 

 

Hes still garbage.    It’s still all lol’s at the Tyrod lovers of tsw.        

 

If his week 1 Browns debacle happened here after the debacle in Jacksonville he would be benched again.  

 

6 turnovers and can’t win ?????

 

hot ?????

 

That rep point makes me feel dirty. I just wanted you to shut up. REMOVE IT.

[McNubbins]

I'd still rather have him on the team than Peterman.

[LSHMEAB]

6 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

If he wins a playoff game I will still eat my shoe. I always felt that we should've suck with Fitz and drafted good talent around him while grooming a young QB behind him. The Weapons Taylor had are still producing solid to good numbers for other teams. The weapons Fitz had are working at UPS and Jewel now.

 

Remember when Tyrod kept Fitz and the Jets out of the playoffs in 2015? That was awesome.

 

 

[Bing Bong]

15 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

Lol respect. I take my dick comment back. well played rep point comeback. Game recognize game. You and I got this forum by the balls.

[BringBackOrton]

13 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

What did you think this thread was?

A god damn hit 

[LSHMEAB]

5 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

Tyrod had to go because there were too many dopes on the Bills who thought he was good.

 

Which players? And why did they think Tyrod was good?

[Rocky Landing]

38 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

A god damn hit 

No accounting for taste.

[Philly’sFinest]

I endorse this thread wholeheartedly 

[Tyrod's friend]

19 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

NFL starting QBs just are NOT easy to come by.  And like Taylor or not, he's an NFL starting QB.  Just like Fitz was and is.

 

tend to disagree with this one, right out of the gate. I mean, it takes some vision and some guts.

 

But the SF 49ers fell right into one, didn't they? And since you mention him. the Browns gave up a 3rd pick (which really isn't much value at all) and the entire NFL genuflected to our FO for that trade. Do you think that made Taylor hard to come by? I mean, it's the same price basically as a different former Pro Bowl QB - Teddy Bridgewater. 

So I've got three teams in the last few years that acquired either a former or future Pro Bowl QB and used nothing more than a single pick that wasn't in the first round. And what exactly did Josh Allen cost the Bills? 

It's NOT hard to come by a starting NFL QB. Not at all. Of course, if you are preoccupied with interviewing the pride of Western Kentucky (really ... am I being fooled? Did we spend time with that guy?) or if you think that 5th round picks should be given the keys to the car ... you might not be the ones in charge of selecting a QB 7th overall.



 

[transplantbillsfan]

32 minutes ago, Tyrod's friend said:

 

tend to disagree with this one, right out of the gate. I mean, it takes some vision and some guts.

 

But the SF 49ers fell right into one, didn't they? And since you mention him. the Browns gave up a 3rd pick (which really isn't much value at all) and the entire NFL genuflected to our FO for that trade. Do you think that made Taylor hard to come by? I mean, it's the same price basically as a different former Pro Bowl QB - Teddy Bridgewater. 

So I've got three teams in the last few years that acquired either a former or future Pro Bowl QB and used nothing more than a single pick that wasn't in the first round. And what exactly did Josh Allen cost the Bills? 

It's NOT hard to come by a starting NFL QB. Not at all. Of course, if you are preoccupied with interviewing the pride of Western Kentucky (really ... am I being fooled? Did we spend time with that guy?) or if you think that 5th round picks should be given the keys to the car ... you might not be the ones in charge of selecting a QB 7th overall.

 

Not hard to come by?

 

Really?

 

Then why have the Bills, Jets, Dolphins, Titans, Texans, Rams, 49ers, Bucs, Bears, Vikings, Browns, Broncos, and Raiders all been teams within the last 5 years or so suffering through a cycle of annual QB change with various "journeymen" or "tentative placeholders" or "young unproven rookies" in place?

 

Taylor was a starting QB for an NFL team 3 years in a row, now going into his 4th.

 

That's not easy to find.

 

 

So sure, SF "fell into one."  But look at the vicious QB cycle that came before that for the better part of 2 decades.

 

Viable NFL Starting QBs don't grow on trees.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

48 minutes ago, Tyrod's friend said:

 

tend to disagree with this one, right out of the gate. I mean, it takes some vision and some guts.

 

But the SF 49ers fell right into one, didn't they? And since you mention him. the Browns gave up a 3rd pick (which really isn't much value at all) and the entire NFL genuflected to our FO for that trade. Do you think that made Taylor hard to come by? I mean, it's the same price basically as a different former Pro Bowl QB - Teddy Bridgewater. 

So I've got three teams in the last few years that acquired either a former or future Pro Bowl QB and used nothing more than a single pick that wasn't in the first round. And what exactly did Josh Allen cost the Bills? 

It's NOT hard to come by a starting NFL QB. Not at all. Of course, if you are preoccupied with interviewing the pride of Western Kentucky (really ... am I being fooled? Did we spend time with that guy?) or if you think that 5th round picks should be given the keys to the car ... you might not be the ones in charge of selecting a QB 7th overall.

 

With all respect, I think there's a bit of flawed logic here as well as two people using words to have different meanings. 

 

First off, can we please back away from using the pro-bowl, a popularity contest where the best players on the best teams that year all bow out because their season is still On and many others bow out due to injury, as a metric for player quality?  I mean when it gets down to the 4th or 5th or even 9th alternate, the phrase "Pro-bowl player" kind of loses its cachet, can we agree?

 

Second, last year was highly unusual with regard to QB availability.  I can't remember another year like it going back to the beginnings of FA in the  NFL. Can the QB transactions that took place last year, reallybe considered reflective of the overall ease or lack of ease on picking up a potential starter?

 

Third, Transplant Bills Fan appears to be using "NFL Starting QB" to mean "potential top tier NFL QB, guy who could take a team to a championship"

Garappolo probably fits that definition if he plays as he did last year and this past week.  He is a highly unusual case though - a 2nd round pick who the head coach was rumored to consider the "starter in waiting", who got dealt for a 2nd because he refused to re-up with his draft team and spend an indefinite time on the bench behind the aged QB considered the GOAT, and the coach/GM was reportedly pressured to trade him.  Find another one like that?  I can't.

 

That brings us to three QB who I would call "lower tier starters" who got dealt - Kizer to GB for a player and a late round pick-swap, Taylor to the Browns for a 3rd, Bridgewater to the Saints for a 3rd.  These guys are all starting QB in that they have, for 1-3 seasons, held the position of starting most of the season's games for an NFL team.  Kizer is a bit of a dark horse, having started only one season for the rather dysfunctional Cleveland Browns, and he was acquired to be a backup, not a starter.   He might or might not improve upon being left in a dark place to come of age.

 

Both Bridgewater and Taylor had more success, including as you say pro bowl appearances and QB their respective teams in a playoff game.  They are legit NFL starters and yep, they were both signed as FA then flipped for a 3rd.  Which seems to support your contention, but not so fast.

 

Now we get to the way "NFL starting QB" is being defined.  In their previous starter gigs, neither were strong passers - 200 yds-ish a game.  In 2015, his best season as a starter, Bridgewater was 31st in the league for passing yards.  Tyrod was 28th.  I don't think too many football experts would consider that a strong, top or even mid-tier QB showing.  In fact I think it would be called a low-level passing performance.  When I play around with QB stats correlated with winning, that may be below a passing yards "floor" needed to win at the highest level of competition (eg playoffs or playoff-bound teams). 

 

I don't know "the whole NFL genuflected to our FO for that trade".  Bills fans who didn't think much of Taylor did, certainly.  I think overall, pundits looked at it and thought "oh, if they're willing to jettison their starter without someone else on the roster, the Bills will make a play for a top-tier FA like Cousins or Keenum".  Then when the Bills signed AJM who didn't really approach replacement-level for Tyrod, pundits were "Oh, they're going to go all in on Rosen, the most pro-ready guy in the draft".  Then when the Bills drafted Allen, they were like "It's the Bills, who knows what they're thinking, they must have their reasons but we don't know what they are"?‍♀️

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

20 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Um....well, we kind of think a lot of Kelly in these parts, usually

Ok, that was legit funny. Howevahhhhhhh...one of these guys wears a HOF gold jacket, and the other wears whatever this is:

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/09/the-bills-quarterback-got-the-nickname-tyrod-tailored-thanks-to-his-postgame-outfit

 

Edited September 19, 2018 by NoHuddleKelly12

[Tcali]

The thing about Tyrod...He finds a way not to score. 3 points vs Jax with pretty darn decent protection.

[Fadingpain]

If this is what unleashed Tyrod looks like, Cleveland may want to put him back on that leash.

 

 

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

Honestly I would Fitz over Tyrod. Even when Fitz not his best. Still better than Tyrod IMO.

[reddogblitz]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

Honestly I would Fitz over Tyrod. Even when Fitz not his best. Still better than Tyrod IMO.

 

yeah Fit z will.get you to 10-5 and on the doorstep of the playoffs and then throw a pick to Leodis in the EZ.

 

i have never laugh ed as hard at the Ralph as I did that day.

[Tyrod's friend]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

With all respect, I think there's a bit of flawed logic here as well as two people using words to have different meanings.

A measured response. Thank you. 

 

First off, can we please back away from using the pro-bowl, a popularity contest where the best players on the best teams that year all bow out because their season is still On and many others bow out due to injury, as a metric for player quality?  I mean when it gets down to the 4th or 5th or even 9th alternate, the phrase "Pro-bowl player" kind of loses its cachet, can we agree?

OK. It's only one tool. But the fact of the matter is that those Pro Bowl awards did come after some pretty good seasons, and I think you can agree to that as well.

 

Second, last year was highly unusual with regard to QB availability.  I can't remember another year like it going back to the beginnings of FA in the  NFL. Can the QB transactions that took place last year, reallybe considered reflective of the overall ease or lack of ease on picking up a potential starter?

Last year was unusual, but quality quarterbacks are obtained every year. In point of fact, I used Jimmy G as one example and he was the previous year.

 

Third, Transplant Bills Fan appears to be using "NFL Starting QB" to mean "potential top tier NFL QB, guy who could take a team to a championship"

Garappolo probably fits that definition if he plays as he did last year and this past week.  He is a highly unusual case though - a 2nd round pick who the head coach was rumored to consider the "starter in waiting", who got dealt for a 2nd because he refused to re-up with his draft team and spend an indefinite time on the bench behind the aged QB considered the GOAT, and the coach/GM was reportedly pressured to trade him.  Find another one like that?  

Well, first of all, Transplant used Tyrod as an example of what an NFL Starting QB (and despite my username, I've never believed Rod had the potential to be top tier qb) but to take your particular point on ...

The guys with the first and second most lifetime completions got their greatest success with their second teams.The fourth guy on that list came out of nowhere to replace Drew Bledsoe. The tenth guy on the list could have been had by anyone in the NFL; he came from Canada. You might not consider Vinny Testaverde much, but he wasn't a Pro Bowl player for the Jets in 1998; he was a first team All Pro at age 35 with his third or fourth team. Is that enough of a list? I will grant you that Matty Ryan, Ben Roethlisberger, and Aaron Rodgers aren't going to become available anytime soon. I will say that I have sufficient examples of HoF, first ballot guys that achieved the majority of their success on their second teams.

 

That brings us to three QB who I would call "lower tier starters" who got dealt - Kizer to GB for a player and a late round pick-swap, Taylor to the Browns for a 3rd, Bridgewater to the Saints for a 3rd.  These guys are all starting QB in that they have, for 1-3 seasons, held the position of starting most of the season's games for an NFL team.  Kizer is a bit of a dark horse, having started only one season for the rather dysfunctional Cleveland Browns, and he was acquired to be a backup, not a starter.   He might or might not improve upon being left in a dark place to come of age.

 

Both Bridgewater and Taylor had more success, including as you say pro bowl appearances and QB their respective teams in a playoff game.  They are legit NFL starters and yep, they were both signed as FA then flipped for a 3rd.  Which seems to support your contention, but not so fast.

 

Now we get to the way "NFL starting QB" is being defined.  In their previous starter gigs, neither were strong passers - 200 yds-ish a game.  In 2015, his best season as a starter, Bridgewater was 31st in the league for passing yards.  Tyrod was 28th.  I don't think too many football experts would consider that a strong, top or even mid-tier QB showing.  In fact I think it would be called a low-level passing performance.  When I play around with QB stats correlated with winning, that may be below a passing yards "floor" needed to win at the highest level of competition (eg playoffs or playoff-bound teams). 

I reject completely and totally the idea that yards passing means anything. It shows nothing regarding context, game planning or if they were effective players. If you think Bridgewater was ineffective in 2015, then okay. We're on a different page.

 

I don't know "the whole NFL genuflected to our FO for that trade".  Bills fans who didn't think much of Taylor did, certainly. 

Again, we'll just disagree. I think I must have read a whole bunch of times that everyone in the NFL thought there was no way the Bills were going to get anything near a 3rd round pick; 4th, maybe but more likely a 5th.

I think overall, pundits looked at it and thought "oh, if they're willing to jettison their starter without someone else on the roster, the Bills will make a play for a top-tier FA like Cousins or Keenum".  Then when the Bills signed AJM who didn't really approach replacement-level for Tyrod, pundits were "Oh, they're going to go all in on Rosen, the most pro-ready guy in the draft".  Then when the Bills drafted Allen, they were like "It's the Bills, who knows what they're thinking, they must have their reasons but we don't know what they are"?‍♀️

Last year was unusual only for the quantity of outstanding outofnowhere seasons. But someone like Keenum comes out of nowhere it seems every year, plenty of Josh McCown seasons. A guy that wasn't drafted in the top 10, or was signed as a free agent, or didn't figure to be a star is frequent. Sometimes they change the organization like Russell.

the mere fact that it happens it seems every single year indicates to me that in point of fact, it's not all that hard to find a starting NFL QB at least as good as Tyrod Taylor. A guy that can have a fine, fine season, win anywhere between 7 and 10 games, get some awards. I just question whether our front office/coaching team is capable of identifying talent at the QB position or developing it. 

Cheers, bud. Always a pleasure.  
 

[BringBackOrton]

4 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

yeah Fit z will.get you to 10-5 and on the doorstep of the playoffs and then throw a pick to Leodis in the EZ.

 

i have never laugh ed as hard at the Ralph as I did that day.

Tyrod dreams of 10-5.

[Tyrod's friend]

4 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Not hard to come by?

 

Really?

 

Then why have the Bills, Jets, Dolphins, Titans, Texans, Rams, 49ers, Bucs, Bears, Vikings, Browns, Broncos, and Raiders all been teams within the last 5 years or so suffering through a cycle of annual QB change with various "journeymen" or "tentative placeholders" or "young unproven rookies" in place?

 

Taylor was a starting QB for an NFL team 3 years in a row, now going into his 4th.

 

That's not easy to find.

 

 

So sure, SF "fell into one."  But look at the vicious QB cycle that came before that for the better part of 2 decades.

 

Viable NFL Starting QBs don't grow on trees.

 

The Browns got Tyrod Taylor for a third round pick for the 2018 season. We can debate whether or not he is viable, but he brought his team back to win twice against Saints this year in the fourth quarter, so please folks stop with the crap. If you don't like that one, I'll just go with Alex Smith, traded for another 3rd round pick. Let's go back a few years.

Josh McCown had a pretty darned good season in the 2017 season, so Jimmy G wasn't alone. We could once again use Alex Smith, who had a pretty darned good year and was acquired by the Chiefs for two 2s. Maybe you think that's a whole lot of expense. I'll stand pat with those three names. Let's go back further.

2016? 4th round pick Dak Prescott is only the third best QB in football. He gets the job only because Romo is injured. Ok, they didn't have to go out and acquire him - but then again, they didn't let the seasoned veteran Mark Sanchez play. Most of the QBs at the top were in-place guys, though. I admit a stretch.
 

Year before that, a quarterback acquired for a 6th round pick in 2015 throws for almost 4000 yards and leads his team to 10 wins. You know about Ryan Fitzpatrick though.

Is that enough? If you are able to identify talent, and surround it with talent/coaching, viable NFL starting QBs are available for a song pretty much every year. I mean, in each of the cases going back for five years I looked only at the top 10-15 or so QBR rated guys and only looked at qualifiers. Hey, the Iggles apparently felt that Foles was a "viable NFL starting QB" since they turned down some pretty good offers for him. Cost for an Super Bowl MVP? A staggering 2 year, $11MM contract. 

You want them to repeat, year after year, high quality seasons? Bring that over to Giants fans who have a "viable NFL starter" for 160 consecutive, sucky, inconsistent years. I mention this in a response to @Hapless Bills Fan... of the top four guys for lifetime completions in NFL history, the top two achieved their results with their second team - and neither of those trades were earth shattering trades. Tom Brady got the job by default and he's fourth on the list. Moon was the 10th on the list, and he could have been had by anyone. 

I'm pretty steadfast on this idea. The further back you go, the more it seems like I'm right. And when you look at the singularly most successful all time players, the top 2 guys were acquired for what amounts to a song. I think I'm way, way right on this.
 

 

 

20 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Tyrod dreams of 10-5.

sounds more like your nightmare.