PFF's view so far

[BADOLBILZ]

17 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I know there are mixed opinions on the value of PFF - and that is fair enough.  Through two games their top 5 graded Bills are:

 

1. Lorenzo Alexander 86.3

1. 2. Josh Allen - 73.3

2. 3. Matt Milano - 71.5

3. 4. Kyle Williams - 68.9

4. 5. Micah Hyde - 67.6

5. 6. Jordan Poyer - 66.5

 

Their worst 5 are:

 

1. Nathan Peterman - 24.3

2. Ryan Groy - 40.0

3. Kelvin Benjamin - 41.8

4. Charles Clay - 47.7

5. Star Lotulelei - 48.0

 

 

Some of that matches my eye test.... but some of it doesn't.  Interested in what others think.

 

EDIT: Sorry - I missed Zo!!!!

 

 

 

Yeah can't forget Lorax......at first sight he was the best defender on the field for the Bills in both games......he is having an excellent season......was great in the playoff game as well....he's got that James Harrison thing going on.

 

Groy has been surprisingly awful.    Edmunds was horrendous this week.  Horrendous.    

 

 

[Da webster guy]

15 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:

See any LBs or DEs on that bottom 5?

 

Then Star is doing his job.

If you're looking for Donald or Cox that cost 20 mil+.

 

Yup.

PFF score doesn't take into account a lot of things like that.  Star is adequate, had a better game 2 than game 1.   Seemed to hold his ground and slide along the line without going backwards pretty well from what I saw.

We overpaid for the guy, but I'd rather have him than not have him

 

 

[Bing Bong]

16 hours ago, Captain_Quint said:

I think Poyer had a rough game this week. If they weren't going after Edmund's, they were going after Poyer. I'd say he's taken a step back from last year when he was so effective. 

Dude did you not see Poyer punch the ball out on the forced fumble? Fantastic heads up play that really has to bring him up.

[Captain_Quint]

7 hours ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

Dude did you not see Poyer punch the ball out on the forced fumble? Fantastic heads up play that really has to bring him up.

I'm not saying hes been Vonte Davis bad, not at all. But on that TD to Mike Williams, they specifically went after him. Rivers said it after the game. Davis was the corner on that play (doomed from the start), and Poy-yay was in position, but he couldnt make the play regardless.

 

And his run support last year was awesome. Alot of plays at or behind the line of scrimmage. This year it seems like hes 5yds deeper, meaning he has to make an open field tackle or get the RB with a full head of steam. 

[WideRightRevenge]

This is really is a dismal report to digest  .. in terms of 4 of the top 5 are on defense .. which has been blown out (aka a turnstile to the end zone) in the red zone .. net of 2nd half last week ... so how does that defense have 4 of the top 5 players on the team ... woof that really says something about the offense side of the ball if you can't outball what the defense has done thus far.

 

Youth movement ... forget Kelvin, Clay, OL .. play the younger players

[DCOrange]

I suspected that Allen was only ranked as #2 on the team because the numbers hadn't updated, and it turns out that was correct. To update (only counting players that have played enough snaps to earn a ranking):

 

Listed in the following format:

Name - Score - Positional Rank

 

Top 5 Offense:

1. John Miller - 67.1 (23 out of 71)
2. Logan Thomas - 64.2 (21 out of 65)
3. Vlad Ducasse - 64.1 (26 out of 71)
4. Jordan Mills - 63.8 (36 out of 70)
5. Dion Dawkins - 63.2 (40 out of 70)

Bottom 5 Offense (1 being the lowest):

1. Marcus Murphy - 39.7 (53 out of 53)
2. Ryan Groy - 41.8 (33 out of 33)
3. Josh Allen - 50.7 (30 out of 32)
4. Kelvin Benjamin - 53.7 (93 out of 107)
5. Andre Holmes - 54.4 (89 out of 107)

Top 5 Defense:

1. Lorenzo Alexander - 87.6 (4 out of 99)
2. Harrison Phillips - 75.1 (30 out of 111)
3. Matt Milano - 73.7 (16 out of 85)
4. Kyle Williams - 70.2 (44 out of 111)
5. Tredavious White - 66.0 (45 out of 102)

Bottom 5 Defense:

1. Tremaine Edmunds - 33.0 (81 out of 85)
2. Rafael Bush - 52.7 (91 out of 102)
3. Star Lotulelei - 57.0 (80 out of 111)
4. Jerry Hughes - 57.9 (67 out of 99)
5. Eddie Yarbrough - 59.0 (64 out of 99)

Edited September 19, 2018 by DCOrange

[blacklabel]

On 9/18/2018 at 6:40 AM, RyanTalbotBills said:

Tre'Davious White has been one of Buffalo's best players, but I'm guessing he's not in the top 5 as Los Angeles went out of their way to avoid throwing in his direction. I personally think Lorenzo Alexander has been pretty solid through two weeks. Thought he'd crack the top 5.

 

Flacco didn't test him in Week One either. Teams are actively avoiding him.

2 hours ago, Captain_Quint said:

I'm not saying hes been Vonte Davis bad, not at all. But on that TD to Mike Williams, they specifically went after him. Rivers said it after the game. Davis was the corner on that play (doomed from the start), and Poy-yay was in position, but he couldnt make the play regardless.

 

And his run support last year was awesome. Alot of plays at or behind the line of scrimmage. This year it seems like hes 5yds deeper, meaning he has to make an open field tackle or get the RB with a full head of steam. 

 

That was just a fantastic throw and catch by Rivers/Williams. Bills had good coverage, sometimes the other team just makes a play.

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, DCOrange said:

I suspected that Allen was only ranked as #2 on the team because the numbers hadn't updated, and it turns out that was correct. To update (only counting players that have played enough snaps to earn a ranking):

 

Listed in the following format:

Name - Score - Positional Rank

 

Top 5 Offense:

1. John Miller - 67.1 (23 out of 71)
2. Logan Thomas - 64.2 (21 out of 65)
3. Vlad Ducasse - 64.1 (26 out of 71)
4. Jordan Mills - 63.8 (36 out of 70)
5. Dion Dawkins - 63.2 (40 out of 70)

Bottom 5 Offense (1 being the lowest):

1. Marcus Murphy - 39.7 (53 out of 53)
2. Ryan Groy - 41.8 (33 out of 33)
3. Josh Allen - 50.7 (30 out of 32)
4. Kelvin Benjamin - 53.7 (93 out of 107)
5. Andre Holmes - 54.4 (89 out of 107)

Top 5 Defense:

1. Lorenzo Alexander - 87.6 (4 out of 99)
2. Harrison Phillips - 75.1 (30 out of 111)
3. Matt Milano - 73.7 (16 out of 85)
4. Kyle Williams - 70.2 (44 out of 111)
5. Tredavious White - 66.0 (45 out of 102)

Bottom 5 Defense:

1. Tremaine Edmunds - 33.0 (81 out of 85)
2. Rafael Bush - 52.7 (91 out of 102)
3. Star Lotulelei - 57.0 (80 out of 111)
4. Jerry Hughes - 57.9 (67 out of 99)
5. Eddie Yarbrough - 59.0 (64 out of 99)

 

Just checked and you are correct DC Orange. While they had updated the snap counts yesterday (hence me thinking it was composite week 1 and 2 ratings) the grades hadn't been updated. Appreciate the updates!

[DCOrange]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Just checked and you are correct DC Orange. While they had updated the snap counts yesterday (hence me thinking it was composite week 1 and 2 ratings) the grades hadn't been updated. Appreciate the updates!

Yeah, it was a simple mistake to make. Seems like they had only partially completed their updates at the time. The only reason I suspected it was because I knew that Allen had gotten exactly a 73.3 in Week 1 and figured it was safe to assume he didn't get the exact same grade two weeks in a row.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, DCOrange said:

Yeah, it was a simple mistake to make. Seems like they had only partially completed their updates at the time. The only reason I suspected it was because I knew that Allen had gotten exactly a 73.3 in Week 1 and figured it was safe to assume he didn't get the exact same grade two weeks in a row.

 

Does match my eye test better on the OL as well. Pretty dreadful week 1.... sort of adequate week 2. 

[Reed83HOF]

So....

 

"

Pro Football Focus provided some stock to that assessment by the Bills’ coordinator. In particular, PFF graded both offensive guards, Vlad Ducasse and John Miller very high in their own regard.

 

Per PFF, Ducasse is the NFL’s best pass-blocking guard through the first two weeks of the season with an overall grade of 91.3. He also had a team-high 88.3 pass-blocking grade against the Los Angeles Chargers during a 31-20 loss for the Bills.

Miller finished Week 2 as the highest-rated Bills’ offensive player overall (pass and run blocking combined) with a score of 73.3. Between both Ducasse and Miller, the duo have only surrendered one quarterback pressure in the first two games of the season."

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2018/09/18/buffalo-bills-vlad-ducasse-john-miller-brian-daboll-pff/

 

[Saxum]

By their standards then all of the failings in middle of line are on center.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 9/18/2018 at 7:17 AM, JoPar_v2 said:

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pff-player-grades

 

You can read about their methodology for these rankings at the link above if you’re curious. Just scroll down past the sales pitch.

 

I never have thought I was particularly deficient in reading comprehension, but you know, I've read their blurb on how they grade

3-4x by now at different times of day and states of sobriety, and all I can conclude is I have pretty much no freakin' clue exactly what they're doing and they aren't gonna tell me.

 

It's essentially subjective (dudes looking at the play) and situational (they have some algorithm for situational impact that weights the subjective rating somehow), that's all I got

[Reader]

Edmunds and Murphy are surprising. In what has been a dumpster fire so far, I wasn't expecting to see the two of them ranked the lowest under Groy, Benjamin, etc...

[ctk232]

On 9/18/2018 at 4:49 AM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think Star is doing his job of taking up space, which is a factor PFF under-rates. 

 

I've been more focused on watching the offense on all-22 and frankly, I'm not good at figuring out which coverage gaps are the result of which error, but I don't think the safety love is entirely justified.

Agreed - I need to re-watch the games to see how much of Star playing one-technique is offsetting PFF grades, which mean what they mean, don't exactly have completely translatable implications. But I do agree that stopping the inside run is the one thing we've managed to do fairly well. It's runs to the outside and passes to the flats that kill us.

 

I agree that the safety love isn't entirely justified. Beyond Tredavious our secondary is not performing as expected, which isn't entirely a surprise tbh. I don't think we have the safety tandem people think we do, albeit they are still one of the better duos in the league per these grades...the bigger issue contributing to this though is lack of depth at DB and coverage positions. Doesn't matter who your secondary is if a QB can just throw to his WR2, Slot receiver, and TEs all day.

[Bing Bong]

7 hours ago, Captain_Quint said:

I'm not saying hes been Vonte Davis bad, not at all. But on that TD to Mike Williams, they specifically went after him. Rivers said it after the game. Davis was the corner on that play (doomed from the start), and Poy-yay was in position, but he couldnt make the play regardless.

 

And his run support last year was awesome. Alot of plays at or behind the line of scrimmage. This year it seems like hes 5yds deeper, meaning he has to make an open field tackle or get the RB with a full head of steam. 

yeah there as some bad coverage everywhere. Interesting that Rivers specifically went after Poyer when I typically see him break up more passes with his hand or a hit than most. But I will say he's undersized and Mike Williams is a huge, aggressive ball attacker, like a good version of Kelvin Benjamin. So I don't recall the throw and catch exactly but I can see a high rifle to Mike Williams catching the ball before Poyer has his hands to PBU and is too close to have any momentum to get a hit.

 

but damn that forced fumble was one of the coolest plays I've seen in a while. So heads up, just sees the guy going down and runs over and punches the ball. I don't understand how any unblocked defender wouldn't just do that when someones getting tackled instead of just slamming the ball carrier himself cause he wants to act like a hard hitter instead of just punching a ball like a sissy.

Edited September 19, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks

[DCOrange]

On 9/19/2018 at 8:42 AM, DCOrange said:

I suspected that Allen was only ranked as #2 on the team because the numbers hadn't updated, and it turns out that was correct. To update (only counting players that have played enough snaps to earn a ranking):

 

Listed in the following format:

Name - Score - Positional Rank

 

Top 5 Offense:

1. John Miller - 67.1 (23 out of 71)
2. Logan Thomas - 64.2 (21 out of 65)
3. Vlad Ducasse - 64.1 (26 out of 71)
4. Jordan Mills - 63.8 (36 out of 70)
5. Dion Dawkins - 63.2 (40 out of 70)

Bottom 5 Offense (1 being the lowest):

1. Marcus Murphy - 39.7 (53 out of 53)
2. Ryan Groy - 41.8 (33 out of 33)
3. Josh Allen - 50.7 (30 out of 32)
4. Kelvin Benjamin - 53.7 (93 out of 107)
5. Andre Holmes - 54.4 (89 out of 107)

Top 5 Defense:

1. Lorenzo Alexander - 87.6 (4 out of 99)
2. Harrison Phillips - 75.1 (30 out of 111)
3. Matt Milano - 73.7 (16 out of 85)
4. Kyle Williams - 70.2 (44 out of 111)
5. Tredavious White - 66.0 (45 out of 102)

Bottom 5 Defense:

1. Tremaine Edmunds - 33.0 (81 out of 85)
2. Rafael Bush - 52.7 (91 out of 102)
3. Star Lotulelei - 57.0 (80 out of 111)
4. Jerry Hughes - 57.9 (67 out of 99)
5. Eddie Yarbrough - 59.0 (64 out of 99)

 

Update after Week 3:

 

Josh Allen - 60.5 (28 out of 33)

 

Top 5 Offense:

1. Chris Ivory - 78.0 (5 out of 57)
2. John Miller - 64.8 (25 out of 72)
3. LeSean McCoy - 63.0 (33 out of 57)
4. Jordan Mills - 62.3 (43 out of 72)
5. Dion Dawkins - 61.1 (45 out of 72)

Bottom 5 Offense (1 being the lowest):

1. Marcus Murphy - 45.8 (57 out of 57)
2. Ryan Groy - 42.3 (36 out of 36)
3. Robert Foster - 50.7 (103 out of 109)
4. Kelvin Benjamin - 52.9 (97 out of 109)
5. Zay Jones - 53.6 (94 out of 109)

Top 5 Defense:

1. Lorenzo Alexander - 90.8 (4 out of 101)
2. Jerry Hughes - 82.8 (8 out of 101)
3. Micah Hyde 79.4 (10 out of 81)
4. Matt Milano - 77.9 (15 out of 86)
5. Harrison Phillips - 74.9 (30 out of 113)

Bottom 5 Defense:

1. Tremaine Edmunds - 53.4 (58 out of 86)
2. Taron Johnson - 56.2 (91 out of 105)
3. Rafael Bush - 56.3 (89 out of 105)
4. Phillip Gaines - 60.5 (71 out of 105)
5. Eddie Yarbrough - 61.8 (64 out of 101)

[Nihilarian]

On ‎9‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 7:49 AM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think Star is doing his job of taking up space, which is a factor PFF under-rates. 

 

Yea, he doesn't belong on that list. Hughes, Lorax has said he is helping them do their jobs. Tre White should be in the top five. 

 

Peterman is the worst by far and Groy right behind him is good. KB I'm not so sure of because he is needed as a big, tall target and as the season goes I think Allen will find him more and he will make more catches. 

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Yea, he doesn't belong on that list. Hughes, Lorax has said he is helping them do their jobs. Tre White should be in the top five. 

 

Peterman is the worst by far and Groy right behind him is good. KB I'm not so sure of because he is needed as a big, tall target and as the season goes I think Allen will find him more and he will make more catches. 

 

Tre is still suffering from being poorly graded week 1. His grade has jumped BIG style this week and he is into the 70s... just below that top 5 on D. 

[Southern Bills Fan]

2 linebackers in our top 5 is the result of Star keeping the O lineman off of them.