Doc Posted September 18, 2018 Posted September 18, 2018 10 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said: Never forget Probably the incident that told the Bills to let that turd walk. 1
BillsVet Posted September 18, 2018 Posted September 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said: Lots of ostriches around here. I love the "we always knew it was going to be a rebuilding year," "we have real cap problems," and "this is only year two" explanations get parroted by folks here, as if these things are somehow self-evident - NONE of these things needed to happen, first of all, second of all the roster decisions by McBeane don't fully comport with a rebuild, and third of all I'm still not at all convinced that the owners knew this was shaping up to be an uncompetitive 0-16 hot mess of a season. But if some fans want to swallow it all and part with their hard-earned dollars, that's fine - we're a society easily fooled by hucksters and circus barkers. In another, easily-imaginable universe, right now Deshaun Watson or Patrick Mahomes could be throwing bombs to Sammy Watkins with Chris Hogan and Robert Woods running underneath routes, and the secondary could be elite with Darby and Gilmore covering the backend while Dareus causes disruptions upfront. All of that would've been a doable Plan A that didn't require a Pol Pot-style cleansing of the non-conformists and self-imposed cap hell. "We're building this the right way for the future." Oh yeah? By expelling almost all of the talent on the roster and trying to backfill with a bunch of semi-retired corpses? By spending a ton of draft assets on a raw QB and giving him zero tools or protection? By trading away his veteran mentor and then forcing him into live action when Peterman - probably the worst football player of the modern era (though Zay Jones is making a run for that distinction) - predictably faceplants? Ask yourselves this - when is the last time the Bills did something contrary to NFL accepted wisdom, all the media experts mocked it, and it worked? Why are some of you so easily, willfully deceived, year after year? Do you ever ask yourselves that - "Why am I such a sucker?" I'm trying to balance 2018 expectations with the reality of another season after nearly 20 years of bad to mediocre football have created. It would be great to come out of 2018 knowing you've got an up and coming QB, but that alone isn't enough, nor is the prospect they'll have 70M in cap room for next season. Still, it's rare for a rebuild to move in reverse, which is what this one appears to be. Most concerning has been the defense's inability to stop anything despite investing a ton on their guys to play McCoach's scheme. And, not to mention the DC has had play-calling removed from his responsibilities. Agree on the questionable pro personnel decisions (Benjamin, V. Davis, OL). This is almost as bad as some of the bad contracts that the previous regime handed out which they got out from under. I'm seeing a lot of the old school thinking dressed up as otherwise in terms of their insistence on "their" guys. The rebuild has taken an unnecessary detour to adhere to this outdated principle of team building.
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted September 18, 2018 Posted September 18, 2018 (edited) 17 hours ago, quinnearlysghost88 said: i read $4MM His guaranteed base salary is gone when you don't play. His bonus was paid out per game active on 53/46 man roster. I assume they can go after him for a % of the original signing bonus too. Usually team's dont do that... but usually players don't retire mid-game. Edited September 18, 2018 by dneveu
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 18, 2018 Posted September 18, 2018 1 hour ago, cd1 said: OK, so now the world knows... The Bills GM shops the bargain basements and - ya get what you pay for! The strange thing is, he doesn't, uniformly. Sometimes he chooses to pay more for what turns out to be less, sometimes much less. 1
major Posted September 18, 2018 Posted September 18, 2018 20 hours ago, MAJBobby said: Matter of time until more and more players start to talk about this regime. Waiting for Wood to unload, though he might just to too professional to do that Davis retiring abruptly reminded me of anquan boldin last year leaving right before the season.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 18, 2018 Posted September 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said: Lots of ostriches around here. I love the "we always knew it was going to be a rebuilding year," "we have real cap problems," and "this is only year two" explanations get parroted by folks here, as if these things are somehow self-evident - NONE of these things needed to happen, first of all, second of all the roster decisions by McBeane don't fully comport with a rebuild, and third of all I'm still not at all convinced that the owners knew this was shaping up to be an uncompetitive 0-16 hot mess of a season. (...) "We're building this the right way for the future." Oh yeah? By expelling almost all of the talent on the roster and trying to backfill with a bunch of semi-retired corpses? By spending a ton of draft assets on a raw QB and giving him zero tools or protection? By trading away his veteran mentor and then forcing him into live action when Peterman - probably the worst football player of the modern era (though Zay Jones is making a run for that distinction) - predictably faceplants? Ask yourselves this - when is the last time the Bills did something contrary to NFL accepted wisdom, all the media experts mocked it, and it worked? Why are some of you so easily, willfully deceived, year after year? Do you ever ask yourselves that - "Why am I such a sucker?" Eh. You're right that none of those things needed to happen - there were always multiple choices along the way. And I agree that while the Pegulas may have been prepared for a losing season, I doubt they were on board for an uncompetitive hot mess. Which team will show up for the rest of the season, Bills-SD 1st half or 2nd half? is the question of the hour. And if it's the former, the Pegulas may be singing Bruce Springsteen "it's just nobody knows baby where love goes but when it goes it's gone" towards McBeane. As far as "willfully deceived" though, I don't see a problem with reserving judgement and seeing how it rolls. I don't think that makes people suckers. McDermott and Beane are both football professionals who have had some success on a SB team, and they will live or die as football professionals according to the decisions they are making now on the Bills. I have a firm seat on the sidelines, so why not settle in and watch with an open mind?
sleeby Posted September 18, 2018 Posted September 18, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said: I'm still not at all convinced that the owners knew this was shaping up to be an uncompetitive 0-16 hot mess of a season. What do you base that on? Esp? Premonitions? Vivid dreams of being on the pegula's yacht? Do you have a friend who heard from a friend who heard it from another that this was so? Half of the people here knew. How could the owners not? I was taking smack talk this summer from people here that this was not a rebuild year, etc. I don't even purport to be an expert at NFL. It was not only right there on the roster but McD told you of the process - how much more clear could they have been? They fumigated OBD - and it's a good thing. That locker room has been too comfortable with .500 for too many years and peaked with the Ryan idiot brothers. Edited September 18, 2018 by sleeby
Captain Murica Posted September 18, 2018 Posted September 18, 2018 12 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said: Never forget Still gets me angry. The only person that went at him was Poyer, and that was more a shove. I wish we had a Taylor Lewan type on the team.
Peter Posted September 18, 2018 Posted September 18, 2018 3 hours ago, joesixpack said: the clowns on GR exploring this fascinating topic this morning with White taking the predictable position of taking it at face value Sure, let's ignore it completely.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 18, 2018 Posted September 18, 2018 Just now, Peter said: Sure, let's ignore it completely. I agree!
Peter Posted September 18, 2018 Posted September 18, 2018 1 hour ago, sleeby said: What do you base that on? Esp? Premonitions? Vivid dreams of being on the pegula's yacht? Do you have a friend who heard from a friend who heard it from another that this was so? Half of the people here knew. How could the owners not? I was taking smack talk this summer from people here that this was not a rebuild year, etc. I don't even purport to be an expert at NFL. It was not only right there on the roster but McD told you of the process - how much more clear could they have been? They fumigated OBD - and it's a good thing. That locker room has been too comfortable with .500 for too many years and peaked with the Ryan idiot brothers. On what do you base that the owners knew that this was going to be a cluster you know what of a season?
Trogdor Posted September 18, 2018 Posted September 18, 2018 20 hours ago, vorpma said: Seriously, I really question if many who are now posting are serious football fans, non - Bills fans, or just bored millennials who are mad because they decided to follow the Bills this year and no SB on the horizon - I want it and I want it now! I really miss the great discussion and debate with solid fans! Any chance you and Joe will stop stroking each other and post something substantial? Almost every post gets your "uninformed fan" treatment. Not everyone agrees with you two. 1
cd1 Posted September 18, 2018 Posted September 18, 2018 57 minutes ago, major said: Davis retiring abruptly reminded me of anquan boldin last year leaving right before the season. I could be wrong but wasn't the common denominator here that both of those players were actually contemplating retirement prior to the Bills stint? Coxing players to "play one more year" seems to be a specialty of Brandon Beane's. Again, I may be very wrong...
Trogdor Posted September 18, 2018 Posted September 18, 2018 2 hours ago, oldmanfan said: To address your points: 1. I wanted Watson and said so at the time. He is now having some sophomore slump issues, which is to be expected. Mahomes had the same rep as Allen was getting this year, big arm but poor mechanics, came from a one read offense etc. So no regrets there. 2. I wanted to keep both Hogan. Still would like to see Sammy here but he never lived up to expectations here or in LA, and now is way overpaid in KC. woods was going back to LA regardless. And some people here bring up Goodwin and conveniently forget he could barely stay on the field here. 3. Dareus was a big fat tub of goo here who under different regimes refused to be coached, was a problem child, and you can't have the biggest contract on your team be that guy. Now, I'll ask you a question. Why do you lump in different personnel moves, some not made under the current regime, and somehow put it on the current regime? Why do you think that's a fair appraisal? Why do you refuse to understand the successful organizations have to have a specific plan, and then work in concert to bring off that plan? Go ahead and name me successful organizations that do not have a specific culture they work around, and/or one where employees get to run around willy-nilly and break any rules they want whenever they want. As for specific decisions made by Beane and McD, ones I like or are OK with Getting rid of Dareus Drafting White Poyer and Hyde Allen and Edmunds Dawkins Darby (because again you have to establish your culture) Ones they should not have done Benjamin EJ Gaines McCarron (should have gotten a more veteran guy, and still should) Fine either way Star As for asking when the last time the Bills did something outside the box, they had a team back in the 80's and 90's. Went to 4 Super Bowls. Ran something called a K Gun that was revolutionary. Had a HC that gave guys individuality but knew what culture he wanted. Had a GM not afraid to make moves he felt were in the best interests of the team. You should read up on them. For the umpteenth time, Poyer and Hyde were Whaley pick ups. The last decent pro personnel added to this team.
oldmanfan Posted September 18, 2018 Posted September 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Trogdor said: For the umpteenth time, Poyer and Hyde were Whaley pick ups. The last decent pro personnel added to this team. I presume they were done under the guindance/permission of McD
Trogdor Posted September 18, 2018 Posted September 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: I presume they were done under the guindance/permission of McD That was a theory, but looking at every single move since then it's hard to justify. Whaley was so great with FAs.
major Posted September 18, 2018 Posted September 18, 2018 18 minutes ago, cd1 said: I could be wrong but wasn't the common denominator here that both of those players were actually contemplating retirement prior to the Bills stint? Coxing players to "play one more year" seems to be a specialty of Brandon Beane's. Again, I may be very wrong... Good question. I have no idea
PromoTheRobot Posted September 18, 2018 Posted September 18, 2018 21 hours ago, MAJBobby said: Matter of time until more and more players start to talk about this regime. Waiting for Wood to unload, though he might just to too professional to do that Here you go, sport. All the gory details. Sorry it's by subscription. https://theathletic.com/531712/2018/09/18/wood-its-so-hard-for-me-to-fathom-that-anyone-would-quit-on-their-teammates-like-vontae-davis-did/ 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 18, 2018 Posted September 18, 2018 2 hours ago, oldmanfan said: To address your points: 2. I wanted to keep both Hogan. Still would like to see Sammy here but he never lived up to expectations here or in LA, and now is way overpaid in KC. woods was going back to LA regardless. And some people here bring up Goodwin and conveniently forget he could barely stay on the field here. You've brought this up before, and it's been corrected before Goodwin probably lied to the Bills about his priorities. In 2015, he clearly had made his mind up to go for another Olympics and his priority was to enter the offseason healthy and pursue that goal. In 2016, after he put his Olympic goals to rest (from pro-football-reference, click and a clear version will open) Dressed for 15 games, started 9. Had 2nd most WR yards on the Bills. Was obviously still developing route running skills, but looked like the lightbulb clicked on. Now we expect or at least are OK with the current FO and coaches when they come in and view former stars and starters negatively after objective evaluation, and say "that was Then, this is Now" and part ways. So why shouldn't we expect them to do the same in a positive way? Goodwin has something you can't coach - burner speed - for which we took a $3.5M Hail-Mary ($2.9M dead cap) on a busted Browns 1st rounder and for which we are currently tolerating a WR with a similar set of (poorly developed) route running skills and hands in Foster - this AFTER we lost the effective deep ball game last year that was Taylor's key to keeping D's honest. Goodwin signed for $3.25M in 2017. Anyway, whether you agree with the decision or not, please stop claiming he couldn't stay on the field here. When he wanted to, which was 2016, he could 1
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