A couple of frustrating plays yesterday IMO

[Lurker]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

(of which he did)

 

The operative phrase.   

 

Even on the two examples you cite, he needs to throw a more "catchable" ball.   Right now, he's like a pitcher who can only throw 90 mph fastballs.   Driving a 10-yard pass with the same velocity as a 25-yard out is not going to help the completion percentage.    

 

And now I'll sit bank and await all the indignant "...Those receivers are professionals!!  They get paid to catch the ball!!   No excuses!!!" commentary with my box of popcorn...

[hondo in seattle]

6 minutes ago, PeterDude said:

 

Why do you assume this?  I hear people say this, and it doesn't make any sense.  If there is one thing that is proven about developing QB's is they typically don't become more accurate.  This take I keep hearing is more faith/hope based than factual.

 

Accuracy as "aim" is a genetic thing and probably doesn't improve much (if at all) over time.   Accuracy as "completion percentage" can improve a lot.  Lots of things go into completion percentage:  scheme, WR route running/separation, WR hands, QB ability to read defense and go throw progressions, biomechanics, etc.  

 

There are lots of QBs who improved their accuracy/completion percentage over the years.  Steve Deberg only completed 45% of his passes in his first season but later developed into a serviceable starter who was never that inaccurate again.  Closer to home, Joe  Ferguson only completed 44% of his passes his rookie season but never again produced a  season that bad.    

 

It's debatable whether Allen has bad aim on his errant passes or is just being a rookie. 

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

The operative phrase.   

 

Even on the two examples you cite, he needs to throw a more "catchable" ball.   Right now, he's like a pitcher who can only throw 90 mph fastballs.   Driving a 10-yard pass with the same velocity as a 25-yard out is not going to help the completion percentage.    

 

And now I'll sit bank and await all the indignant "...Those receivers are professionals!!  They get paid to catch the ball!!   No excuses!!!" commentary with my box of popcorn...

He throws like John Elway.....you know that HOF guy

[Lurker]

2 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

He actually threw quite a few nice short passes yesterday. The three to Shady, a couple dump offs, a few 5 yard bullets.

 

Those passes were how the play was designed/called.    The fastballs seemed to come when he had to improvise after the play had broken down.   

 

Yes, that's a byproduct of experience.    But it's going to be a painful learning curve given the lack of time he has to process what he's seeing...

[John from Riverside]

3 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

The operative phrase.   

 

Even on the two examples you cite, he needs to throw a more "catchable" ball.   Right now, he's like a pitcher who can only throw 90 mph fastballs.   Driving a 10-yard pass with the same velocity as a 25-yard out is not going to help the completion percentage.    

 

And now I'll sit bank and await all the indignant "...Those receivers are professionals!!  They get paid to catch the ball!!   No excuses!!!" commentary with my box of popcorn...

If you know your gonna receive ire for it (and justif so...:)  Then why say it....

 

The fact is if the ball is there to be caught then the receiver needs to catch it......by the way.....both of those examples I provided were catchable balls that the pass catcher simply didnt make the play on

[Lurker]

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

He throws like John Elway.....you know that HOF guy

 

Elway could make the touch throw.    That's why he's HOF...

[Kelly the Dog]

2 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

The operative phrase.   

 

Even on the two examples you cite, he needs to throw a more "catchable" ball.   Right now, he's like a pitcher who can only throw 90 mph fastballs.   Driving a 10-yard pass with the same velocity as a 25-yard out is not going to help the completion percentage.    

 

And now I'll sit bank and await all the indignant "...Those receivers are professionals!!  They get paid to catch the ball!!   No excuses!!!" commentary with my box of popcorn...

He threw three swing passes where he took a lot off and all three were right on the money to Shady, and I think one dump off.

[John from Riverside]

Just now, Lurker said:

 

Elway could make the touch throw.    That's why he's HOF...

Elway often DIDNT make a touch throw....he would fast ball his short throws

 

That is well documented

[Bing Bong]

Anybody notice the 40 yard throw to Holmes in the end zone? I thought Woods would come down with that throw.. but nobody really talked about it so maybe it was a little too out of bounds to catch anyway.. but I thought it was a helluva throw

[Kelly the Dog]

3 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

Those passes were how the play was designed/called.    The fastballs seemed to come when he had to improvise after the play had broken down.   

 

Yes, that's a byproduct of experience.    But it's going to be a painful learning curve given the lack of time he has to process what he's seeing...

Possibly. And I trust your judgment. Nolan Ryan threw a ton of 100mph fastballs right on target. But he also walked a bunch of guys. he was either very accurate or he was very often far off target. It seems contradictory but that is the way some guys are when they throw so hard. 

[Flip Johnson]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Doesn't help that Allen wasn't regularly practicing with most of these guys until recently...

 

This really can't be said enough.

 

Under the category of "accuracy" is also general comfort level with your receivers and the ability to read each other's body language. Allen's laser to Clay is a ball he needs to put more air on. Allen's throw to Murphy could have been better, but I also wonder if those two just need more work together.

[zow2]

19 minutes ago, PeterDude said:

 

Why do you assume this?  I hear people say this, and it doesn't make any sense.  If there is one thing that is proven about developing QB's is they typically don't become more accurate.  This take I keep hearing is more faith/hope based than factual.

 

I hear ya.  If he's hitting at 55% completion this year (which isn't very good),  then I think he can improve that to 58-60% with experience and better players around him.   But to be honest, if he's a 55% or below passer this season, I doubt he ever gets to a very healthy 64%+ or greater that the elite QB's have.  You can't learn to do that.   

[John from Riverside]

28 minutes ago, PeterDude said:

 

Why do you assume this?  I hear people say this, and it doesn't make any sense.  If there is one thing that is proven about developing QB's is they typically don't become more accurate.  This take I keep hearing is more faith/hope based than factual.

His accuracy might not improve dramatically......

 

But we have seen in just a small bit of time that his footwork can improve dramatically....which affects mechanics....he looks much better then he did at Wyoming.

 

The quality of his pass catcher's can also improve....thus improving the completion percentage.

[The Wiz]

3 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

Anybody notice the 40 yard throw to Holmes in the end zone? I thought Woods would come down with that throw.. but nobody really talked about it so maybe it was a little too out of bounds to catch anyway.. but I thought it was a helluva throw

Hard to tell from the angle but it looked like it was about 3 ft above Holmes.  Judging by the shadow of the ball it looked like it was on the right path though.

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, zow2 said:

 

I hear ya.  If he's hitting at 55% completion this year (which isn't very good),  then I think he can improve that to 58-60% with experience and better players around him.   But to be honest, if he's a 55% or below passer this season, I doubt he ever gets to a very healthy 64%+ or greater that the elite QB's have.  You can't learn to do that.   

I dont think he is ever going to be a Tom Brady type accurate passer......

 

That does not mean that he couldnt end up being a great player....because he has so many physical skills

1 minute ago, The Wiz said:

Hard to tell from the angle but it looked like it was about 3 ft above Holmes.  Judging by the shadow of the ball it looked like it was on the right path though.

I thought it was in the tragectory.....but was out of bounds.

 

I like that he is willing to take those shots

[Lurker]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

If you know your gonna receive ire for it (and justif so...:)  Then why say it....

 

Because a huge segment of TSW wears rose colored glasses (always has and always will) about so many elements of this team.   Rationalization is the Wall's raison d'etre.

 

 

[Bing Bong]

Just now, The Wiz said:

Hard to tell from the angle but it looked like it was about 3 ft above Holmes.  Judging by the shadow of the ball it looked like it was on the right path though.

I liked it. Looks like the throw Antonio Brown comes up with on a circus catch. Big Ben can make those throws because he has one of the best WRs ever. 

 

I really really want to get a top 10 receiver somehow. When's the last time we had eliteness at that position?

[Juice_32]

9 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Josh knows exactly what he needs to do.  He spoke of throwing the wrong ball on the pick intended for Croom.  Said he should have put air on it and let Croom run under it rather than try to throw a rope.  He'll learn; that's what these reps and games are for.

 

 

8 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Yes and no. There were three very nice short throws over defenders to Shady that he took a lot off and hit him on the dead run. They looked easy but really are not all that easy and all were right on the money. IIRC, one was a first down or close to it, two were 6-7 yard plays.

 

The one rolling left when he had Murphy wide open he just blew, trying to take too much off because it was so open. On that he probably should have just throw it regular, like the Shady passes, and not lofted or gunned it. A lot of QBs will say passes to wide open guys aren't always so easy for just that reason.

 

He actually threw quite a few nice short passes yesterday. The three to Shady, a couple dump offs, a few 5 yard bullets.

 

I agree he'll learn and he did make some good short throws. I do not think he's incapable of taking a little off. I'm just saying he looks most comfortable when he's ripping it. 

 

I think it is normal for a QB to play to their strengths, especially early in their career. It is why running QB's often take off and run before they should. They are reverting to what they are comfortable with. His greatest strength is his crazy arm. He will likely try to make more "wow" throws early on than he needs to. His natural mentality is that of a gunslinger.

 

As he learns and progresses he will figure out that every throw does not have to be a rope and hopefully he'll be more comfortable with those types of throws. All in all I was very impressed with JA.

 

 

[The Wiz]

8 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

 

I thought it was in the tragectory.....but was out of bounds.

 

I like that he is willing to take those shots

Like I said, I'm just guessing based on the shadow of the ball in the air but it looks like it skips right by the camera guy who is pretty much in line with Allen and Holmes so probably a little wide also.

 

And I agree.  I'd prefer shots like those over the 2 yard dump offs all day.

 

Edit: that being said, there were a hand full of plays after watching where he had the dump off route but extended the play with his legs.  He's going to have to learn that sometimes those dump offs are the better option.

Edited September 17, 2018 by The Wiz

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

5 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

I really really want to get a top 10 receiver somehow. When's the last time we had eliteness at that position?

Incoming Watkins fanboys.

 

But he wasn't. Eric Moulds, on the other hand, was.