Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Reed83HOF said: McD loves defense and yes I agree they should think about that from an overall infusion of picks and talent standpoint, but man those 2 are hard to pass up.... I get it, I do. I'm torn on it myself. I guess it would be necessary to see how FA shakes out.
Reed83HOF Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 Just now, joesixpack said: I get it, I do. I'm torn on it myself. I guess it would be necessary to see how FA shakes out. Truth is not everything will be patched up next season. If I have to guess right now our approach will be: 1.) BPA in RD1 and most likely be Bosa or Oliver - we suck and I hope we don't get too cute and screw ourselves with a meaningless crap win or 2 2.) OL spend lots of $$$$ in FA with some mid round picks going here and at LB/CB 3.) WR - We will sign a WR2/3 in FA and attempt to maneuver around to draft a #1 WR if there is one 4.) CB spend some $$ on CB2 I don't see us going OL high in the draft as they tend take a couple seasons to develop. I think we will spend money here with vets to shore this unit up to help Allen immediately next season. It sucks to think about this already, but this is the right approach. Let's see who we actually have that can play and that are still young and build around them. We will gain more cap space as LorAx, Shady, Hughes, and Kyle move on
SoTier Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 1 hour ago, HappyDays said: You would give away the 65th overall pick in the draft to save $7.6 million in cap space in a rebuilding year? And you think Beane is the incompetent one?? When you have huge immediate needs on the OL, you can use that $7.6 million in dead cap space to sign a better FA than Russell Bodine or Marshall Newhouse. They could have tried to sign Mike Pouncey, former Pro Bowl center, for $5 million. Too.Stupid.To.Be.True.
oldmanfan Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 5 minutes ago, SoTier said: When you have huge immediate needs on the OL, you can use that $7.6 million in dead cap space to sign a better FA than Russell Bodine or Marshall Newhouse. They could have tried to sign Mike Pouncey, former Pro Bowl center, for $5 million. Too.Stupid.To.Be.True. Yep. And teams hurting at safety kick themselves in the head for not signing Poyer or Hyde. Ad infinitum
SoTier Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 9 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Yep. And teams hurting at safety kick themselves in the head for not signing Poyer or Hyde. Ad infinitum How many kept a player that they always intended to get rid of past March 1, incurring a major dead cap hit in the process, just so they could trade him away before the draft? That's the real problem here. McDermott/Beane seem oblivious to the consequences of shedding players without regard to the cap. Dareus, Glenn, Coleman, and McCarron are more examples. Too.Stupid.To.Be.True.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 3 hours ago, SoTier said: If IIRC, the Bills could have released Taylor before March 1 without a cap penalty -- or at least a much smaller cap hit. In fact, I think most Bills fans expected him to be released. Instead, the geniuses McDermott/Beane kept a QB that they didn't want just so they could trade him for a third round pick before the draft and take a $7.6 million cap hit. What kind of stupid **** is that???? Then they compound their stupidity by signing AJ McCarron for $5 million and trading him away a couple of months later and incurring $2.6 million in dead cap money. That's $9.6 million in dead cap space for 2 QBs who aren't on the roster ... but at least they got a third rounder and a fifth rounder for all that money they don't have to pay to mediocre QBs. Instead, they're paying about $600k for Nate Peterman to impersonate an NFL QB. Too.Stupid.To.Be.True. This is just incorrect on the Taylor cap sitch. The $7.6M dead cap the Bills have on the books for Taylor was prorated signing bonus If not traded before March 16th, Bills would have owed Taylor a $6M roster bonus as well as $10M salary, but would have taken less cap hit from the signing bonus, which I believe was split over 3 years. 3 minutes ago, SoTier said: How many kept a player that they always intended to get rid of past March 1, incurring a major dead cap hit in the process, just so they could trade him away before the draft? That's the real problem here. McDermott/Beane seem oblivious to the consequences of shedding players without regard to the cap. Dareus, Glenn, Coleman, and McCarron are more examples. Too.Stupid.To.Be.True. Again, the Bills did not incur an additional cap hit from Tyrod Taylor by trading him before the 16th March date when his roster bonus would have come due. They traded him and Cleveland picked up the roster bonus. Yes, they have a cap hit from his signing bonus and Yes, a point can be made that between TT's accelerated signing bonus cap hit and what was paid for McCarron, the Bills didn't save that much money to take what appears to be a downgrade in veteran QB, but that hoss has long left the barn. It Is What It is. 3 hours ago, SoTier said: Well, the Bills could have had Mahomes AND Sammy if they'd had their crap together in 2017 ... and don't pretend that the trade down to take a DB, however good, over a QB was on Whaley. He didn't run the 2017 draft because he was fired right after the draft. "If ifs and buts were candies and nuts we'd all have a merry Christmas" 2
mjt328 Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, zow2 said: There's just no way that I can come up with a scenario that Terry and Kim signed off on a total "tear it down" and rebuild plan. Certainly not to be the laughinstocks of the NFL. He has gone through years of pain dealing with that on the NHL side. Now I get that McBeane sold to them in the offseason,, that Buffalo has to get through a season with a ton of dead cap money, and will have to work in a rookie QB. But I also believe they were told they have a gamer in Peterman, a vet in McCarron to stabilize the ship, a solid Defense coming off a playoff season... and some free agents to add to the mix. I have no doubt the Pegulas were told they might take a step back, but no way they would become a league joke and risk alienating his football fanbase like what happened to his NHL fansbase. In the NFL, you don't have to SUCK to build a winner. What you do is you stay relevant and reload at the positions of need as attrition happens. If I were the Pegulas, I'd be walking around pissed off today. Yes=- Allen looks decent but the amount of holes they have to fill are staggering. Some of the players McBeane thought would be decent are not playing well or have been flat out released. I don't get some of their roster moves. For example, why would a team desperate for a good, solid posssession receiver would get rid of O'Leary and keep Logan Thomas? That dude can't play the position or be trusted to catch a pass. Overall, the McBeane era has taken a huge hit this year for me. I had a ton of faith in them, but it's wavering. We've been irrelevant since the turn of the century mostly because of our quarterback situation. Although we've gotten a few decent seasons from some vets (Flutie, Bledsoe, Fitz, Orton, Taylor), we haven't seen consistent top-level play since Jim Kelly retired. The reason I use the word "irrelevant" instead of something like "terrible" - is because the Bills have NOT been bottom-dwellers for the majority of the last 15-20 years. During the ENTIRETY of the 17 year drought, the Bills had exactly three seasons with less than 6 wins. We haven't been embarrassingly bad. We've been frustratingly mediocre. Unfortunately, the constant 6-10, 7-9 and 8-8 finishes kept fooling the Bills front office into patching holes. They realized we had decent talent. So they kept treating this roster like we were a linebacker or receiver away from contending. And every season, we would see the play of our quarterback drag a fairly talented roster to the ground. The Bills would end up with a draft pick between 5-10, which of course was just far enough back to keep us from drafting a top QB or elite positional prospect. Sean McDermott and Brandon Beane were smart enough to identify the problem (lack of Franchise Quarterback). But instead of complaining that his team was in "purgatory" and hopeless to do anything about it, they set forth a plan to ENSURE they would obtain a top QB prospect in the 2018 draft. They did this by trading away talented players to other teams for draft picks. This gave them the capital needed for a trade-up, but also left them with multiple holes on the roster and too much dead-space on the salary cap to get much free agent help... this year. Without the extra picks, we probably couldn't have made a move for Josh Allen. And if you replace Allen with all the guys we traded away (Sammy Watkins, Ronald Darby, Marcel Dareus, Tyrod Taylor), we are back in the same situation we've been for almost 20 years. Honestly, I figured our fanbase would be smart enough to figure this out. But I guess not. Everyone is so worried about being a "laughingstock" or being labeled the worst team in the NFL, they forgot that we already were a joke and haven't received respect from anyone in almost two decades. Even in seasons that we win 8-9 games, the Bills are regularly lumped in the same conversation as the Cleveland Browns. If Allen turns out to be a star in this league, the 2018 season will be nothing more than a blip on the radar. This front office will have plenty of resources to build around him over the next few seasons, and you will be shocked how quickly we can re-stock this roster into something good. Edited September 17, 2018 by mjt328 1
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 12 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: "If ifs and buts were fruits and nuts we'd all be living in California" FTFY
oldmanfan Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 25 minutes ago, SoTier said: How many kept a player that they always intended to get rid of past March 1, incurring a major dead cap hit in the process, just so they could trade him away before the draft? That's the real problem here. McDermott/Beane seem oblivious to the consequences of shedding players without regard to the cap. Dareus, Glenn, Coleman, and McCarron are more examples. Too.Stupid.To.Be.True. That last sentence. Are you referring to your post?
PeterDude Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 25 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: "If ifs and buts were candies and nuts we'd all have a merry Christmas" Hmm, that's not the best response to a valid criticism of the FO lol.
Watkins90 Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 5 hours ago, nucci said: there are only a handful of teams that suck every year....why , excluding last year, are we always one of them? Up until this year, we had been mediocre since Marrone was our coach.
HappyDays Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 2 hours ago, Perry Turtle said: Both of these guys fell to the Bills in the '17 draft. McDermott, for some reason, decided to delay selecting a QB, and it cost the team several more assets to draft Allen, which could have been used to speed the rebuild. But he also picked up an extra 1st round pick. He didn't just give up assets. You can think of it as we traded 2 2nd round picks to get Tremaine Edmunds and still got our franchise QB and a #1 CB. The only thing that matters is Allen. If he turns out good Beane will be here a long time, if not he'll be gone in 2 years.
Saxum Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 5 hours ago, zow2 said: There's just no way that I can come up with a scenario that Terry and Kim signed off on a total "tear it down" and rebuild plan. Certainly not to be the laughinstocks of the NFL. Maybe they did not know that they were going to model it after you, a "laughinstock"? 1
Mr. WEO Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 58 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: "If ifs and buts were candies and nuts we'd all have a merry Christmas" "BALLS", said the Queen. "Had I two I'd be King"
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 2 hours ago, BuffaloRush said: Hate to say this but from all indications The Pegulas are in love with Coach McDermott and Brandon Beane. They are going nowhere. Mark it downs. I'm sure you're correct that the Pegulas are currently "in love with" Coach McDermott and GM Brandon Beane and as of today, they are going nowhere All folks are saying is that, if the team continues to play and behave in a way that makes them a national media laughingstock (vs simply losing), Something will Happen and the Pegulas may just change their mind. Do we need to make a list of all the coaches and GMs, the Pegulas have been "in love with" before, until, well, Something Happened to change how they saw it?
Perry Turtle Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 33 minutes ago, HappyDays said: But he also picked up an extra 1st round pick. He didn't just give up assets. You can think of it as we traded 2 2nd round picks to get Tremaine Edmunds and still got our franchise QB and a #1 CB. The only thing that matters is Allen. If he turns out good Beane will be here a long time, if not he'll be gone in 2 years. They also traded a third (Cleveland's) to move up to draft Edmunds. So to move up in the first to draft Allen and Edmunds, it cost them both seconds and and the first pick in the third. If they drafted their QB in '17 at #10, with every other trade being the same (Watkins, Darby, Taylor), they would have have ended up with 1 first round pick, 2 second round picks and 2 third round picks in '18. If they still traded up to get Edmunds, it still costs them the first pick in the 3rd round, but they still have the 2 second round picks. Not saying that either Allen or Edmunds aren't worth it, what I am pointing out is that the Bills paid a heavy price for them. There are a lot of holes in the current roster that those traded picks could have filled.
34-78-83 Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 6 hours ago, nucci said: there are only a handful of teams that suck every year....why , excluding last year, are we always one of them? Actually, We are "Always" between 7-9 and 8-8. It's "Always" been a patchwork "re-toolling" while trying to maintain on the fly. This is the 1st official rebuild we have done, and in the way that SOOOO many Bills fans on sites such as this have begged for over the years. Now they hate it because they are impatient, uninformed or have an agenda.
BuffaloRush Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I'm sure you're correct that the Pegulas are currently "in love with" Coach McDermott and GM Brandon Beane and as of today, they are going nowhere All folks are saying is that, if the team continues to play and behave in a way that makes them a national media laughingstock (vs simply losing), Something will Happen and the Pegulas may just change their mind. Do we need to make a list of all the coaches and GMs, the Pegulas have been "in love with" before, until, well, Something Happened to change how they saw it? I guess, but my feeling is that The Pegulas were prepped that this was going to be a really bad year. You can tell all the way back to the Spring with McDermott’s “year-to-year” comments. The Pegulas were probably expecting a very bad year, so I’m sure this comes as no surprise. I have heard that Terry is conscious of his reputation in the NFL and NHL and doesn’t want to be known as the guy who fires everyobe. Also I am pretty sure he gave McDermott quite a long leash when he signed here. Translation....these two are going nowhere
HappyDays Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 1 hour ago, SoTier said: When you have huge immediate needs on the OL, you can use that $7.6 million in dead cap space to sign a better FA than Russell Bodine or Marshall Newhouse. They could have tried to sign Mike Pouncey, former Pro Bowl center, for $5 million. Too.Stupid.To.Be.True. But then we wouldn't have been able to get Edmunds which would have left a hole at MLB. You're playing whack a mole. They were never going to fill every spot in one offseason once 2 starters on the line retired. They're rebuilding. They didn't want to spend too much money in free agency. Next year they can afford a couple impact players.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 1 hour ago, PeterDude said: Hmm, that's not the best response to a valid criticism of the FO lol. What valid criticism, that the FO should have drafted Mahomes and kept Watkins? That's a nit. Every NFL FO wins some and loses some personnel decisions. Dak Prescott looked all-world with a great supporting cast 2 years ago, so let's wait a few games before annointing that decision as the Bills-breaker choice of the decade. It's the aggregate sum of personnel decisions that will sink or swim Beane and the Bills on his watch. It's not whether they kept Watkins or traded him, or took Mahomes or traded down; it's all the other decisions they made or didn't make at the same time. "If Ifs and Buts were Candies and Nuts we'd All have a Merry Christmas" is simply a more succinct way of putting it.
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