Joe B.: Bills Sacrificing Miserable Season For Long-Term Growth

[Perry Turtle]

17 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

The goal last year was to bottom out, since that didn't happen it's going to be a long year but our rookie QB is getting hands on training probably a season earlier than the team wanted and so far there has been ups and downs but I like what I'm seeing so far. I expect a top 10 pick and it will help us in the long run, OT/WR should be the top targets when the pick is up. 

The only reason to bottom-out is to draft a QB.  Other than that, the offensive and defensive lines can be filled out in the middle picks of a round.

 

McDermott could have had his franchise QB by drafting Mahomes or Watson at 10.  He probably could have even traded back into the first round to grab white.

 

Everything else could have stayed the same and the Bills could have filled out the roster this draft with one less first rounder (which would have been fine, as they already had their QB) and two more 2nd rounders.

 

There was no need to bottom-out, the draft fell to the Bills last year, and instead of drafting an NFL-quality QB prospect, they passed it up and mad three extra deals, which cost them additional assets to draft Allen.

 

That's the problem with Beane and McDermott; they over-complicated everything.  They want you to believe that they're playing chess while everyone else is playing checkers.

 

 

 

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Frazier, Crossman and Castillo are all huge liabilities to the future of this team. Teller should replace a cut Miller immediately. Stop wasting roster spots with mediocre special teasers who have little other skills to offer. Cut Peterman and sign a vet as we pray JA survives the season.  I have absolutely no problem accepting a rebuild year this year and even next year. But at least get a head start on sifting through some of these bad players. You can't convince me that Brandon Reilly wouldn't have been a better young possession receiver to keep over the likes of Holmes, Streator and Kerley. Stop being stupid Sean and figure it out. 

 

Agree. I have no issue in a rebuild year either. But freaking do it then. And not half ass it trying to scrape 5 wins. 

 

Cut Holmes - sign Rielly or Gentry of Bears PS 

Cut Miller - Start Teller 

Play McDermott

Get rid of the ST players and raid PS 

 

if you are going to try and sell that after the fact your roster moves better reflect it because they sure didnt before the season 

3 minutes ago, Batman1876 said:

They don’t contradict it at all. It’s also not a new definition. 

 

Again show me OBD definition of the Process until you can show me that and how it is the same after 47-3 it is just a new spin that your roster moves contradicted and continue to contract 

10 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Frazier, Crossman and Castillo are all huge liabilities to the future of this team. Teller should replace a cut Miller immediately. Stop wasting roster spots with mediocre special teasers who have little other skills to offer. Cut Peterman and sign a vet as we pray JA survives the season.  I have absolutely no problem accepting a rebuild year this year and even next year. But at least get a head start on sifting through some of these bad players. You can't convince me that Brandon Reilly wouldn't have been a better young possession receiver to keep over the likes of Holmes, Streator and Kerley. Stop being stupid Sean and figure it out. 

 

I would also add Culley to that coachin list. 

[Batman1876]

7 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Agree. I have no issue in a rebuild year either. But freaking do it then. And not half ass it trying to scrape 5 wins. 

 

Cut Holmes - sign Rielly or Gentry of Bears PS 

Cut Miller - Start Teller 

Play McDermott

Get rid of the ST players and raid PS 

 

if you are going to try and sell that after the fact your roster moves better reflect it because they sure didnt before the season 

 

Again show me OBD definition of the Process until you can show me that and how it is the same after 47-3 it is just a new spin that your roster moves contradicted and continue to contract 

 

I would also add Culley to that coachin list. 

The process was laid out when they made moves to get a QB and absorb dead cap this year. You have your own definition of what that should look like this year. The roster moves they made did reflect their goals you just think that reflection should look different. The future of this team does not include the older players, they are here to fill out the roster and provide leadership. This team has a ton of young guys who hopefully should learn something from the old guys, that is the contribution of those more experienced vets. 

[Ol Dirty B]

1 hour ago, reddogblitz said:

 

hawks plan was better. The went 7-9 the 2 years before they took off. They then in one off season signed Matt Flynn, kept incumbant Tarvaris , and drafted Russell.

 

build up your team so that when you get a good QB you plug him in and you're off to the races. Saints did a similar thing before getting Brees.

 

bills decided to gut the team of talent and then throw in a rookie project QB. Interesting. I hope it works.

 

This is what Whaley was doing and the board still is all over him for it.

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, Batman1876 said:

The process was laid out when they made moves to get a QB and absorb dead cap this year. You have your own definition of what that should look like this year. The roster moves they made did reflect their goals you just think that reflection should look different. The future of this team does not include the older players, they are here to fill out the roster and provide leadership. This team has a ton of young guys who hopefully should learn something from the old guys, that is the contribution of those more experienced vets. 

 

So what leadership have Davis and Kerley provided again?  Or what about Lacy? Mills and Miller? The 8 ST only players?

Edited September 17, 2018 by MAJBobby

[BillsFan4]

Here is my opinion on the discussions in this thread:

 

It’s pretty rare for a coach or GM to come out and straight up say “this is a lost season due to a rebuild” before the season even starts. 

 

But...  Deciding to take ALL that dead cap money this year instead of spreading it out, and dumping their starting QB from last season should have been a pretty big clue for everyone that this was going to be a rebuild year. 

 

A GM doesn’t decide to willingly take all of the dead cap money this year and dump his starting QB for 2 rookies if he expects to be competing for something. 

 

 

 

The plan seems pretty clear to me:

 

- get rid of guys who were not buying in, and begin the desperately needed culture change at one bills drive. 

 

- clean up the cap this year, so we are in good shape next year and beyond. 

 

- develop our rookie QB

 

- develop our rookie MLB

 

- develop other young players, like some of the WRs, TEs, S (Neal), CB (Johnson, White), our punter, our LT etc. 

 

 

 

 

As to why why there are not young players starting at every position -

 

You can only draft so many guys per season, so they weren’t able to plug every hole they wanted. But they have some young players at key areas, and I’m sure there will be more next season. 

 

McDermott has also said that the player who earns the starting job will play.

He is not going to just give starting jobs to every young player.

He wants them to push themselves, work hard and earn it. I believe that is a key part of their development. What would it teach a young player if he were just handed a starting job he didn’t earn? What type of precedent would that set? 

 

Plus, how would it go over in the locker room if McD said “hey, I know you all saw that (player x) earned it but I’m going to start this rookie because he’s a few years younger”?   

 

 

And as to why they didn’t just dump every veteran (like Kyle, Shady, Lorenzo etc) - 

 

They want good veterans showing these young guys the right way to do things. They want them around to help get the young guys accustomed to the NFL. They want them around to continue establishing the culture change. 

 

And theyre not not going to force Kyle out just to get younger. He is a franchise cornerstone and has earned the right to retire from the Bills on his own terms. Fans would have absolutely lost their minds if they had forced Kyle out to start some young guy in his place. 

 

Plus, just because they are rebuilding doesn’t mean they HAVE TO get rid of every single veteran. Why should they get rid of McCoy when they haven’t drafted his replacement yet? 

 

 

 

[TwistofFate]

I would feel 100 times better McDermott just came out and said, we're raw, inexperienced and bad. 

 

We are in a rebuilding phase, we expect to win, but it's next to impossible with what we currently have on the roster due to the lack of experience and youth both on the roster and in the coaching staff. 

 

We are building long term, but rest assured that we are also doing everything we possibly can to produce wins now. 

 

This is going to be a long painful season, but we are looking for the dividens to payoff next season and beyond....its going to get ugly, just remember, trust the process. 

 

I think I would be OK with that. 

[Fadingpain]

1 minute ago, TwistofFate said:

I would feel 100 times better McDermott just came out and said, we're raw, inexperienced and bad. 

 

We are in a rebuilding phase, we expect to win, but it's next to impossible with what we currently have on the roster due to the lack of experience and youth both on the roster and in the coaching staff. 

 

We are building long term, but rest assured that we are also doing everything we possibly can to produce wins now. 

 

This is going to be a long painful season, but we are looking for the dividens to payoff next season and beyond....its going to get ugly, just remember, trust the process. 

 

I think I would be OK with that. 

McD doesn't do honesty or truth.

 

He engages solely in Coachspeak.

 

It makes listening to almost everything he says in a public venue a waste of time.

 

 

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

Here is my opinion on the discussions in this thread:

 

It’s pretty rare for a coach or GM to come out and straight up say “this is a lost season due to a rebuild” before the season even starts. 

 

But...  Deciding to take ALL that dead cap money this year instead of spreading it out, and dumping their starting QB from last season should have been a pretty big clue for everyone that this was going to be a rebuild year. 

 

A GM doesn’t decide to willingly take all of the dead cap money this year and dump his starting QB for 2 rookies if he expects to be competing for something. 

 

 

 

The plan seems pretty clear to me:

 

- get rid of guys who were not buying in, and begin the desperately needed culture change at one bills drive. 

 

- clean up the cap this year, so we are in good shape next year and beyond. 

 

- develop our rookie QB

 

- develop our rookie MLB

 

- develop other young players, like some of the WRs, TEs, S (Neal), CB (Johnson, White), our punter, our LT etc. 

 

 

 

 

As to why why there are not young players starting at every position -

 

You can only draft so many guys per season, so they weren’t able to plug every hole they wanted. But they have some young players at key areas, and I’m sure there will be more next season. 

 

McDermott has also said that the player who earns the starting job will play.

He is not going to just give starting jobs to every young player.

He wants them to push themselves, work hard and earn it. I believe that is a key part of their development. What would it teach a young player if he were just handed a starting job he didn’t earn? What type of precedent would that set? 

 

Plus, how would it go over in the locker room if McD said “hey, I know you all saw that (player x) earned it but I’m going to start this rookie because he’s a few years younger”?   

 

 

And as to why they didn’t just dump every veteran (like Kyle, Shady, Lorenzo etc) - 

 

They want good veterans showing these young guys the right way to do things. They want them around to help get the young guys accustomed to the NFL. They want them around to continue establishing the culture change. 

 

And theyre not not going to force Kyle out just to get younger. He is a franchise cornerstone and has earned the right to retire from the Bills on his own terms. Fans would have absolutely lost their minds if they had forced Kyle out to start some young guy in his place. 

 

Plus, just because they are rebuilding doesn’t mean they HAVE TO get rid of every single veteran. Why should they get rid of McCoy when they haven’t drafted his replacement yet? 

 

 

 

 

I get Kyle, Lorax (leadership) 

 

Do not get Davis, Holmes, Kerley

 

I also dont get the roster spaces taken up by Veteren ST only players instead of a younger guy that could grown into something else (Dicky J built rosters like that). 

 

Now going on the why get rid of someone when they didnt draft their replacement yet. 

 

Same can be said for Watkins, Darby, Dareus, Gilmore, Glenn (need two OTs), Woods, Brown. So it happens all the time and all over the league so that doesnt really fly. 

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, Peter said:

 

How many games are we going to win this year?

 

At least 8, if you're asking for my opinion.

[ColoradoBills]

The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot, in a crisis, shrink.................

 

 

[TwistofFate]

4 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

McD doesn't do honesty or truth.

 

He engages solely in Coachspeak.

 

It makes listening to almost everything he says in a public venue a waste of time.

 

 

It aggravates me to no end.   Just give me the raw honest truth.   I can handle it, I promise.   I'll respect you more because of it as well. 

 

Coach speak is why fans lose faith and turn on coaches when the team is struggling.  

[Peter]

44 minutes ago, Domdab99 said:

 

Yeah, firing the priest is why we suck now

 

 

Firing the priest that Rex hired was gratuitous and seemingly paranoid.

 

As for why we suck now, there are other reasons for that . . . but karma is a b**tch. Firing a priest under these circumstances is never a good look.

 

 

41 minutes ago, Domdab99 said:

 

They, and Bodine and Murphy are stop gaps. Vets who can at least play while the rookies get up to speed. Yeah, David bailed. Bad signing. Star is actually doing exactly what he's being paid to do. 

 

 

 

The whole thing looks to be stop gaps while we twist in the wind and watch this crap and they figure out what they are doing while invoking the "process.".

 

7 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

At least 8, if you're asking for my opinion.

 

If you really believe that, I recommend going to Vegas.

 

Personally, I would take the under right now.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Peter

[BillsFan4]

28 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

I get Kyle, Lorax (leadership) 

 

Do not get Davis, Holmes, Kerley

 

I also dont get the roster spaces taken up by Veteren ST only players instead of a younger guy that could grown into something else (Dicky J built rosters like that). 

 

Now going on the why get rid of someone when they didnt draft their replacement yet. 

 

Same can be said for Watkins, Darby, Dareus, Gilmore, Glenn (need two OTs), Woods, Brown. So it happens all the time and all over the league so that doesnt really fly. 

 

From what I’ve gathered, my opinion is -

 

Watkins was entitled, selfish and a loner in buffalo (some of that by his own admission) and has caused some issues in the locker room. I believe they also knew he would price himself out of buffalo. So they took a 2nd round pick for him. 

 

Darby was struggling with zone coverage concepts and didn’t really fit the scheme. He’s a man cover CB. He was also said to not be buying in and supposedly disliked McDermott. 

 

Dareus was lazy, late to meetings and was one more failed test away from a 1yr suspension. He caused issues for the Bills for years and this new regime was having none of it. He was also said not to be buying in. 

 

You cant put Gilmore on this new regime. Whaley had 2 years to get him signed and didn’t. He drew a hard line in the sand as to what he would pay (reported to be around $11.5M) and Gilmore was unwilling to accept it. 

Gilmore also wanted to go to a team where he would get to play on prime time TV. Why would the Bills shell out $14M + (likely would have had to beat NE’s $13.5M per) for a guy who didn’t truly want to be here? 

 

Glenn was traded in order for Buffalo to be able to land their QB -something you and everyone else said was a huge priority for years. 

He was also traded in order to let his younger replacement develop. 

You can not assume that Glenn or Dawkins can play the right side. Marrone tried Glenn on the right and he struggled badly. McD tried Dawkins at RT (he may have tried Glenn there too iirc) and he struggled big time. He was outplayed at RT by Jordan Mills...

Asking a linemen to play the opposite side is tough. I once heard an o linemen say “it’s like wiping with the opposite hand” (lol). You need to be able to do everything backwards. 

You also have to factor in Glenn’s injury and time missed. Dawkins did very well in his place. 

Maybe they should have given Glenn or Dawkins more time at RT. But I’m not sure how they go up and get Josh Allen without trading Glenn. We definitely wouldn’t have Edmunds, and maybe we wouldn’t have our 1st this year (which would be a disaster...). 

 

Robert Woods didn’t seem to want to re-sign in Buffalo. It was reported long before McDermott was hired thathe Bills were not even negotiating with him. He wanted to go home to California, and did just that. I would have loved for Woods to stay. 

 

Brown didnt really fit the scheme. McD needs his MLB to be able to play sideline to sideline with speed and cover the pass. They drafted his replacement and are letting him develop on the field. 

 

 

That’s my opinion on how I see those moves, anyway...

 And Just to be clear, I am not trying to say that I agree with every move they’ve made. Far from it. I worry that they put too much emphasis on character and not enough on talent. But I can see the plan. Only time will tell if it works out. 

Edited September 17, 2018 by BillsFan4

[transplantbillsfan]

 

39 minutes ago, Peter said:

If you really believe that, I recommend going to Vegas.

 

Personally, I would take the under right now.

 

I don't gamble.

 

Yes, I really believe that.

 

People need to simmer down.

 

The NFL is so damn week to week it's insane. McDermott has this team heading in the right direction. But sometimes for every 2 steps forward, you have to take 1 step back before moving forward another couple steps.

[yungmack]

1 hour ago, Batman1876 said:

They said it all along with their actions. 

 

Dig out the team from Whaley’s cap issues. Convert the old roster into draft picks. Get a rookie QB. absorb all the losses from those changes and trades before 2019. Adddraft picks and free agents in 2019 to improve.  

Roughly 40 of the 50 million was created by Beanie and Cecil.

[#34fan]

3 hours ago, Idandria said:

 

And p.s. we made the playoffs last year.

 

True.

 

Thank you Marvin Lewis!

[dabills21]

1 hour ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

From what I’ve gathered, my opinion is -

 

Watkins was entitled, selfish and a loner in buffalo (some of that by his own admission) and has caused some issues in the locker room. I believe they also knew he would price himself out of buffalo. So they took a 2nd round pick for him. 

 

Darby was struggling with zone coverage concepts and didn’t really fit the scheme. He’s a man cover CB. He was also said to not be buying in and supposedly disliked McDermott. 

 

Dareus was lazy, late to meetings and was one more failed test away from a 1yr suspension. He caused issues for the Bills for years and this new regime was having none of it. He was also said not to be buying in. 

 

You cant put Gilmore on this new regime. Whaley had 2 years to get him signed and didn’t. He drew a hard line in the sand as to what he would pay (reported to be around $11.5M) and Gilmore was unwilling to accept it. 

Gilmore also wanted to go to a team where he would get to play on prime time TV. Why would the Bills shell out $14M + (likely would have had to beat NE’s $13.5M per) for a guy who didn’t truly want to be here? 

 

Glenn was traded in order for Buffalo to be able to land their QB -something you and everyone else said was a huge priority for years. 

He was also traded in order to let his younger replacement develop. 

You can not assume that Glenn or Dawkins can play the right side. Marrone tried Glenn on the right and he struggled badly. McD tried Dawkins at RT (he may have tried Glenn there too iirc) and he struggled big time. He was outplayed at RT by Jordan Mills...

Asking a linemen to play the opposite side is tough. I once heard an o linemen say “it’s like wiping with the opposite hand” (lol). You need to be able to do everything backwards. 

You also have to factor in Glenn’s injury and time missed. Dawkins did very well in his place. 

Maybe they should have given Glenn or Dawkins more time at RT. But I’m not sure how they go up and get Josh Allen without trading Glenn. We definitely wouldn’t have Edmunds, and maybe we wouldn’t have our 1st this year (which would be a disaster...). 

 

Robert Woods didn’t seem to want to re-sign in Buffalo. It was reported long before McDermott was hired thathe Bills were not even negotiating with him. He wanted to go home to California, and did just that. I would have loved for Woods to stay. 

 

Brown didnt really fit the scheme. McD needs his MLB to be able to play sideline to sideline with speed and cover the pass. They drafted his replacement and are letting him develop on the field. 

 

 

That’s my opinion on how I see those moves, anyway...

 And Just to be clear, I am not trying to say that I agree with every move they’ve made. Far from it. I worry that they put too much emphasis on character and not enough on talent. But I can see the plan. Only time will tell if it works out. 

Excellent post!  

 

I can also see the plan that Beane/McDermott are deploying, and it should also be clear to every fan as they've been transparent with their thought of building a long term winner. But it takes time.

 

Like it or not, Patience is key.  Jury is still out if this overhaul will work, but i have faith.  Past mismanagement of the team and what Beane/McDermott inherited all need to be taken into consideration

[GETTOTHE50]

Yes this year sucks.

 

But we actually have a competent QB for once that stands tall in the pocket and is fun to watch. 

 

It’s still the deflators division whether we like it or not. Build up the team so when he’s done, we take over right away and don’t look back.

 

Brady is playing on a game per game basis. He can retire at any instant with his age. 

 

 

 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

5 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

I'll believe it when I see it bud. In which case I'll still be here. ??

 

Damn.