Joe B.: Bills Sacrificing Miserable Season For Long-Term Growth

[formerlyofCtown]

5 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

Then Why is Ducasse playing?

Why did Holmes and Kerley make the team NOT Coleman and Reiley?

Why is Mills and or Newhouse playing?

Why wasnt McCoy Dealt?

Why was cap space used on players that wont be here when rebuild over? 

 

 

This is the latest spin after they have been embarassed for two weeks. 

 

So what happened to win now win in the future did that go out the door with 47-3?

As I said in another thread I think the ability to win now went out the window with Wood retiring and Richie losing his mind.  They are still trying to be competitive but that is difficult with 50 mil in dead Cap.

[BuffaloRush]

5 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

We have a 100 mill in cap space, how much would he actually take up?? And a 5th is still terrible, at minimum should have been a 2nd for a player of his ability.

 

 

 

Again, you don’t understand the salary cap.  Marcel had an inflated contract. Couple that with the fact that his play over the past few years has been average.  Do you really think teams Were clamoring for an overpaid, underperforming DT?    There weren’t.  In fact, many were shocked that Beane was actually able to deal him

[oldmanfan]

They're ripping the band aid off quickly rather than slowly. I liked what I saw from Allen; no deer in the headlights look.  Foster and Jones made plays.  Edmunds had a tough day but a learning experience.  No one will throw at White.  Milano looked pretty good.  So they have young pieces to build around.

 

That said, McD and Beane have challenges.  Short term, McD has to figure out why his team comes out so far behind the 8 ball.  Is it his coordinators?  Especially Frazier?  What about Castillo?  Does he need to change anyone?  Do they need to bring in another backup QB to help Allen?  They need to scour other rosters to get some more DBs.  And linemen perhaps?  How long do you go with guys on the interior of the O line that are struggling like they're struggling?

 

Long term they have a plan.  I'm OK with the plan.  They have their QB, MLB, star CB, safeites, LT.  But the success of their plan will depend on just how good they are at picking the right guys in the draft and FA.  Draft they look pretty good so far, FA not as much.  But they were limited by cap space to go after top FAs. 

 

Like any organization they'll rise and fall by these decisions.

[Fadingpain]

14 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

They're ripping the band aid off quickly rather than slowly. I liked what I saw from Allen; no deer in the headlights look.  Foster and Jones made plays.  Edmunds had a tough day but a learning experience.  No one will throw at White.  Milano looked pretty good.  So they have young pieces to build around.

 

That said, McD and Beane have challenges.  Short term, McD has to figure out why his team comes out so far behind the 8 ball.  Is it his coordinators?  Especially Frazier?  What about Castillo?  Does he need to change anyone?  Do they need to bring in another backup QB to help Allen?  They need to scour other rosters to get some more DBs.  And linemen perhaps?  How long do you go with guys on the interior of the O line that are struggling like they're struggling?

 

Long term they have a plan.  I'm OK with the plan.  They have their QB, MLB, star CB, safeites, LT.  But the success of their plan will depend on just how good they are at picking the right guys in the draft and FA.  Draft they look pretty good so far, FA not as much.  But they were limited by cap space to go after top FAs. 

 

Like any organization they'll rise and fall by these decisions.

Yes, perfectly lucid as he threw the ball behind, in front of, and over the heads of his receivers, two seconds late.

 

[oldmanfan]

3 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

Yes, perfectly lucid as he threw the ball behind, in front of, and over the heads of his receivers, two seconds late.

 

Quit being an ass.  It was his first game.  He did make mistakes but not because he looked scared.  Like all young QBs the fame needs to slow down.  

 

You're just being a jerk to be a jerk now.

[JÂy RÛßeÒ]

It all falls on the talent people now, both pro (free agents) and college (draft).

[vincec]

I'm glad to read that everything is all going according to plan. ?

 

Strange that McDermott didn't seem to happy about it at the post game press conference, everything going so well and all.

[Coach Tuesday]

I don't believe Joe B.'s statement that the owners signed up for this - I'm betting they did NOT.

[oldmanfan]

Last year the HC and GM said they were not going to sacrifice short term for long term, and they were right.  They got to the playoffs.  This season should be no different.  But they have to address some gaping issues, including the O line interior and why they got off to such a terrible start on D in both games.  They have some young guys like Edmunds who need to learn I get that, but then at least be aggressive with your D calls.  Try and take the game to the other team instead of the other way around. 

 

It will be really interesting to see if McD calls the defensive signals the entire game next week.

[SoTier]

8 hours ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

What are you going to do when this pays off and we have constant success? Wither away?

 

When will that be?  2050????

[vincec]

1 minute ago, SoTier said:

 

When will that be?  2050????

Patience! It takes 5 years for an expansion team like the Bills to make it to the playoffs. And doesn't count the 2 years that the Bills are spending turning into an expansion team in the first place.

Edited September 17, 2018 by vincec

[Mrbojanglezs]

9 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

Then Why is Ducasse playing?

Why did Holmes and Kerley make the team NOT Coleman and Reiley?

Why is Mills and or Newhouse playing?

Why wasnt McCoy Dealt?

Why was cap space used on players that wont be here when rebuild over? 

 

 

This is the latest spin after they have been embarassed for two weeks. 

 

So what happened to win now win in the future did that go out the door with 47-3?

 

why do we have one of the oldest rosters in the league?

[BigBuff423]

9 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

Then Why is Ducasse playing?

Why did Holmes and Kerley make the team NOT Coleman and Reiley?

Why is Mills and or Newhouse playing?

Why wasnt McCoy Dealt?

Why was cap space used on players that wont be here when rebuild over? 

 

 

This is the latest spin after they have been embarassed for two weeks. 

 

So what happened to win now win in the future did that go out the door with 47-3?

 

Ducasse graded out better than most fans thought at the second half of last year. And he is a Vet, when you're starting your Rookie QB, you're hoping a Vet can do enough to not get your QB killed. That said, it's time to start Teller at LG and move Ducasse back to RG, because Miller has been even worse.

 

Holmes and Kerley were the right FA options based on how Beane and McD did not want to commit big money to this year or in the years to come.

 

Mills has continued to see his way through two FO and Coaching changes and it boggles my mind. I can only imagine it's again due to wanting some experience over McDermott, but I am also on board with the change now and let the chips fall where they may.

 

I honestly thought McCoy would be dealt during the Off-season given how deep the RB position was in the Draft. In multiple threads I intimated such by saying things like, "I wouldn't be surprised if..." and discuss a trade of McCoy. I was lambasted for suggesting such a thing, but I really thought the Bills wanted to get the core QB / RB for the Offense moving forward. That said, it appears RB will be a position of priority next Draft, as it should be. But, I also think when they say, "win now, win in the future", they knew McCoy gave them the best hope to help a Rook and to move the Offense which helps them stay competitive on Offense - or at least that was the plan (I think?). 

 

I'm not sure about your Cap space question as they're cutting roughly $50 million in driftwood dead Cap THIS year, freeing themselves up for the years to come, beginning with more than $70 in Cap space for 2019. I'm sure you have players in mind, but I just don't know which one(s) you're referring to. 

Edited September 17, 2018 by BigBuff423

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

Ducasse graded out better than most fans thought at the second half of last year. And he is a Vet, when you're starting your Rookie QB, you're hoping a Vet can do enough to not get your QB killed. That said, it's time to start Teller at LG and move Ducasse back to RG, because Miller has been even worse.

 

Holmes and Kerley were the right FA options based on how Beane and McD did not want to commit big money to this year or in the years to come.

 

Mills has continued to see his way through two FO and Coaching changes and it boggles my mind. I can only imagine it's again due to wanting some experience over McDermott, but I am also on board with the change now and let the chips fall where they may.

 

I honestly thought McCoy would be dealt during the Off-season given how deep the RB position was in the Draft. In multiple threads I intimated such by saying things like, "I wouldn't be surprised if..." and discuss a trade of McCoy. I was lambasted for suggesting such a thing, but I really thought the Bills wanted to get the core QB / RB for the Offense moving forward. That said, it appears RB will be a position of priority next Draft, as it should be. But, I also think when they say, "win now, win in the future", they knew McCoy gave them the best hope to help a Rook and to move the Offense which helps them stay competitive on Offense - or at least that was the plan (I think?). 

 

I'm not sure about your Cap space question as they're cutting roughly $50 million in driftwood dead Cap THIS year, freeing themselves up for the years to come, beginning with more than $70 in Cap space for 2019. I'm sure you have players in mind, but I just don't know which one(s) you're referring to. 

 

Again HOW Do ANY of these moves equate to a planned being bad and youth Movement that is the latest Process Propaganda Spin. 

 

And seeing we want to use PFF grades to defend Ducasse WHY do you give 50M to a horrible graded DT that has been trending downward since being a rookie if there is this planned youth development year?

Edited September 17, 2018 by MAJBobby

[BigBuff423]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

 

Again HOW Do ANY of these moves equate to a planned being bad and youth Movement that is the latest Process Propaganda Spin 

 

They Drafted their believed franchise QB....that used a lot of Draft capital but nothing that gave up 2019 or beyond. They have 9 or 10 Draft picks upcoming, and have a bunch of FA money for next year. They're playing Allen, Edmunds, and Horrible Harry and Taron Johnson - picks in rounds 1 through 4, and Teller looks like a promising player in the 5th round. Neal is on STs and Robert Foster - the UDFA - is suiting up on game day. Last year's picks, Dawkins, Tre, Zay, Milano are all playing important roles for them - albeit Zay is struggling and this year is healthy, but all of the WRs have been pretty bad thus far. Croom is young as well. 

 

I'm not sure what's so hard to understand in that they can't trot out Rookies at EVERY position, so considering how many Rookies and 2nd year players are actually starting or playing a larger role, I don't know what more you can expect. You can't fix every position in one year, not even in two years - UNLESS YOU SPEND A BUNCH OF FA MONEY - which they were NOT going to do in 2018. They were committed to getting dead money off the books, clearing out the space and building contracts they way they believed sustained long-term success. 

[CEN-CAL17]

9 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Actually Wyatt Teller looked pretty darn good in pre season

Teller will start the last few games, you can bet on that. Even Ike may get a game or two. By week 15 the Bills will probably be 2-12. Allen will be more comfortable, VLad will still be terrible, so why not.

 

I expect Teller to start at LG next year. I’d expect the Bills draft a LT to compete with Dawkins, draft/sign a C. Ike may be our swing tackle next year.

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

They Drafted their believed franchise QB....that used a lot of Draft capital but nothing that gave up 2019 or beyond. They have 9 or 10 Draft picks upcoming, and have a bunch of FA money for next year. They're playing Allen, Edmunds, and Horrible Harry and Taron Johnson - picks in rounds 1 through 4, and Teller looks like a promising player in the 5th round. Neal is on STs and Robert Foster - the UDFA - is suiting up on game day. Last year's picks, Dawkins, Tre, Zay, Milano are all playing important roles for them - albeit Zay is struggling and this year is healthy, but all of the WRs have been pretty bad thus far. Croom is young as well. 

 

I'm not sure what's so hard to understand in that they can't trot out Rookies at EVERY position, so considering how many Rookies and 2nd year players are actually starting or playing a larger role, I don't know what more you can expect. You can't fix every position in one year, not even in two years - UNLESS YOU SPEND A BUNCH OF FA MONEY - which they were NOT going to do in 2018. They were committed to getting dead money off the books, clearing out the space and building contracts they way they believed sustained long-term success. 

 

Again so How does Kerley and Holmes fit this plan movement. They contradict their propaganda with this roster decisions. But hey blind faith is good too. 

 

Speaking of UFA so do you want Beane spending that money. Look at HIS offseason this year. That inspires right?

[oldmanfan]

5 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Again so How does Kerley and Holmes fit this plan movement. They contradict their propaganda with this roster decisions. But hey blind faith is good too. 

 

Speaking of UFA so do you want Beane spending that money. Look at HIS offseason this year. That inspires right?

They are not completely tearing it down and rebuilding.  They said last year they have short term and long term goals.  They do this year as well.  They can't get rid of every veteran, and it doesn't mean every young kid plays before a vet is they think the vet is better.  This year will be a longer year because e they have a rookie QB that is learning, and a rookie MLB that is learning.  Plus they need to improve their lines (and there I would say the young guys like Teller should get their shot sooner vs. later).

 

You are so busy trying to make snarky comments you don't actually read. They have a lot of work to do, as I've outlined in other posts this morning.  And their plan will necessitate good personnel decisions.  As does the plan of every other team in the league.

[May Day 10]

I take Joe B's word on almost anything.  IMO, he is the hardest worker in the Buffalo media pool and does not pull punches, nor unnecessarily bag on players/management.  He is fair.

 

 

Reading that backed me from the ledge a bit.

 

 

Its pretty clear that current Bills management is iron clad until the 2020 season starts at a minimum.  Might as well see this through.  2018 is likely shot, but Allen didnt look to far out of class, and has 14 games to improve, and we see extensive reinforcements in 2019 and 2020.

 

Edited September 17, 2018 by May Day 10

[MAJBobby]

Ok Now a little counter points maybe

 

6 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

From what I’ve gathered, my opinion is -

 

Watkins was entitled, selfish and a loner in buffalo (some of that by his own admission) and has caused some issues in the locker room. I believe they also knew he would price himself out of buffalo. So they took a 2nd round pick for him. 

What would be better right now Watkins on his cost controlled 5th year option or KB on his 5th year option.  So we cant talk long term deals yet because this is what we would be talking about IF McD picked his option up.  Didn't now look at the talent level.  Also let me ask this what would cause problems in the locker room (though no real reports of this) not even showing ANY semblance of care and heart (Benjamin) or Giving it all on Sunday (Watkins).  So KB is ok and a better option (that will price himself out of Buffalo) because he is from Carolina (gave a 3rd round pick for him).

6 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

Darby was struggling with zone coverage concepts and didn’t really fit the scheme. He’s a man cover CB. He was also said to not be buying in and supposedly disliked McDermott. 

And this Darby was struggling and didnt fit the scheme was decided all on what 3 weeks.  Yet there are players Like Peterman and McDermott that have SUCKED for over a year and are still on this team.  Wouldnt a nice and effective COST CONTROLLED Rookie Contract Corner look real nice on the other side of Trey.  Now about buying in, so How does that work with players that QUIT on the team like (Davis, Boldin, Robinson) do they buy in? And again this was all found out with Darby about NOT buying in within 3 weeks.

6 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

Dareus was lazy, late to meetings and was one more failed test away from a 1yr suspension. He caused issues for the Bills for years and this new regime was having none of it. He was also said not to be buying in. 

Dareus I can somewhat understand.  However would be be better on this team right now instead of paying him NOT to be on this team.  So you could question this move as well specially for what they got for him.

6 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

You cant put Gilmore on this new regime. Whaley had 2 years to get him signed and didn’t. He drew a hard line in the sand as to what he would pay (reported to be around $11.5M) and Gilmore was unwilling to accept it. Gilmore also wanted to go to a team where he would get to play on prime time TV. Why would the Bills shell out $14M + (likely would have had to beat NE’s $13.5M per) for a guy who didn’t truly want to be here? 

Of course you can, they had a chance to re-sign him.  Didn't but that would have been ok if you didnt trade out the OTHER young CB.  Another Roster management blunder. So I could be OK not paying GIlmore top end CB money if Darby was here for now two years on a rookie deal evaluating and development of youth like is being talked about as all part of the process in the recent spin.

6 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

Glenn was traded in order for Buffalo to be able to land their QB -something you and everyone else said was a huge priority for years. 

He was also traded in order to let his younger replacement develop. You can not assume that Glenn or Dawkins can play the right side. Marrone tried Glenn on the right and he struggled badly. McD tried Dawkins at RT (he may have tried Glenn there too iirc) and he struggled big time. He was outplayed at RT by Jordan Mills...

Asking a linemen to play the opposite side is tough. I once heard an o linemen say “it’s like wiping with the opposite hand” (lol). You need to be able to do everything backwards. 

You also have to factor in Glenn’s injury and time missed. Dawkins did very well in his place. 

I get that Glenn was "needed for Allen" Though he really wasnt, now if you go look at my posts on Glenn, i was ok with that trade.  Got the right value and could understand that which FIT this current spin.

6 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

Maybe they should have given Glenn or Dawkins more time at RT. But I’m not sure how they go up and get Josh Allen without trading Glenn. We definitely wouldn’t have Edmunds, and maybe we wouldn’t have our 1st this year (which would be a disaster...).

Easy that could have been just another 2nd round pick because that is what the Glenn trade brought you in value.

6 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

Robert Woods didn’t seem to want to re-sign in Buffalo. It was reported long before McDermott was hired thathe Bills were not even negotiating with him. He wanted to go home to California, and did just that. I would have loved for Woods to stay. 

How could anyone say Woods didnt want to sign if they never approached him?

 

6 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

Brown didnt really fit the scheme. McD needs his MLB to be able to play sideline to sideline with speed and cover the pass. They drafted his replacement and are letting him develop on the field. 

Sure lot of Scheme Fit moves ala Rex and Character moves ala Dicky J.  and Creating Holes to fill them, remember that has happened every year of the drought as well.  Instead of killing talent to fit a scheme wouldnt it be better to have a coach that can maximize the talent in his scheme.  Now I can understand Brown as well because he was a UFA and that is when it would be smart to get rid of NON Scheme fits, and NOT take on a **** load of dead cap.

6 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

That’s my opinion on how I see those moves, anyway...

 And Just to be clear, I am not trying to say that I agree with every move they’ve made. Far from it. I worry that they put too much emphasis on character and not enough on talent. But I can see the plan. Only time will tell if it works out. 

Like the other one is Taylor, if this rebuild was part of the process why was he re-signed last year? but Cut this year for McCarron and his 10M?  So what I am saying is their moves this past offseason Contradict this newfound development talk.  And get sick off all the passing given to this regime for Saddling THEMSELVES with this talent void and deadcap issue.