BringBackOrton Posted September 17, 2018 Author Posted September 17, 2018 2 hours ago, BBills88 said: Marrone went to a situation where the Jags have 6 1st rounders on defense. And a bunch of cap money. Mc Dermott is rebuilding. There were times when Marrone teams in Buffalo we out matched. There should be no comparisons. Fun fact, in McD’s first year, we had “Tre, Shaq, Jerry, Dareus, Darby, Ragland” on defense. 4 first rounders and 2 second rounders.
rodneykm Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 Just now, BringBackOrton said: Fun fact, in McD’s first year, we had “Tre, Shaq, Jerry, Dareus, Darby, Ragland” on defense. 4 first rounders and 2 second rounders. Shaq, Darby and Dareus weren't McDermotts picks if I recall correctly.
BringBackOrton Posted September 17, 2018 Author Posted September 17, 2018 (edited) Just now, rodneykm said: Shaq, Darby and Dareus weren't McDermotts picks if I recall correctly. Neither were most of the 1st rounders Marrone had. Edited September 17, 2018 by BringBackOrton
rodneykm Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said: Neither were most of the 1st rounders Marrone had. Would you say Marrone's 1st rounders were better than McDermotts?
Lfod Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, PeterDude said: It's hard to trust the coaches McDermott has surrounded Allen with. If Allen develops it's almost like he has to figure it out himself, that sounds like a complete opposite approach to say what Mahomes went/is going through. I think Peterman starting is a testament to the staff wanting to take it slow and develop Josh knowing the offense is just not good enough for a rookie to develop. It's a hard truth to swallow. It was nice seeing Josh throw a touchdown pass. I would have liked to see him start with a better foundation around him but that is not happening now. Edited September 17, 2018 by Lfod 1
rodneykm Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Lfod said: It was nice seeing Josh throw a touchdown pass. I would have liked to see him start with a better foundation around him but that is not happening now. This is exactly what I believe the staff wanted all along. They know next year, with all the cap space, we'll be able to greatly improve our offensive line and WR's. Doing this will give Josh the tools he needs to succeed. This year was always going to be a down year and I'm ok with that. I like what they are trying to accomplish.
Trogdor Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 (edited) 14 hours ago, Returntoglory said: They also inherited a horrid salary cap situation Not one decent pick up from Beane. All he does is add to the dead cap. 30 minutes ago, rodneykm said: This is exactly what I believe the staff wanted all along. They know next year, with all the cap space, we'll be able to greatly improve our offensive line and WR's. Doing this will give Josh the tools he needs to succeed. This year was always going to be a down year and I'm ok with that. I like what they are trying to accomplish. I'm terrified of this regime with money. They can't evaluate at all. Since Whaley left, there hasn't been a single positive addition of pro personnel. Also, look at the FA pool. There are no good Olinemen to add. 1 hour ago, PeterDude said: From what I can tell, it is a big part of his decision making process. I think that is a problem when it comes to building a winning team. There was a post that got closed in the off-season that pointed this out perfectly. The first or second thing McD pointed out about every addition was their faith. It's clearly a high priority, but maybe we put too much stock in a guy that wasn't even a top 5 DC? The Pegulas royaled screwed this team by not allowing the GM to pick his coach. Edited September 17, 2018 by Trogdor
dave mcbride Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 2 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said: I've said it a hundred times that I don't blame Marrone for leaving. No good HC would work with Russ and Whaley pulling the strings. If the Pegula's would have cleaned house and fired everyone from the failed Wilson era I believe Marrone would still be the HC right now. I agree, and don't really understand the "traitor" charge. Marrone made a power play and lost. He was going into the last year of his contract too, and there was no way they were going to extend it given the failed power play. The power play wasn't stupid either; he thought that Manuel was terrible and Whaley was continuing to push Manuel on him. He didn't want to live with that situation.
Bing Bong Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 1 minute ago, rodneykm said: My point is the assumption, and thats exactly what it is, that his primary focus is on high character guys is not really backed by much more than a few comments here and there. That's true. I fully believe he compromises at times. But I also think he gives up on entitled talent too early (in some cases, let's both agree we're not talking in absolutes) because he's not willing to make the effort to motivate somebody that doesn't make it easy on him. He sure had a motivated roster last year. It was impressive and I thoroughly enjoyed that playoff team. They showed up every week believing they would win, and had confidence. Hyde, Poyer, White, and Gaines were my favorite players. They were dancing, having fun, playing their hearts out, and doing everything they could to win. And he did a bang up job with a depleted roster. I'm actually all for seeing McDermott operate without Beane, with a GM that gives him a chance to compete. Remember how pissed he was about the tanking talk going into last year? Loved it. But his job is virtually impossible right now, so I'm not going to roast him. I suppose I'm really speaking about Beane. I think we combine the 2 way too much. Wanting high character guys is fine, I totally understand that. NEEDING high character guys to win is poor coaching in that you are limited in the NFL talent pool. But I don't know what's a result of Beane dumping players, or McDermott telling Beane players need to go. I want to see a Beaneless McDermott more than anything. But my biggest gripe with McDermott is the Peterman infatuation. It was bizarre, baffling. The national media was incredibly confused (deservedly so IMO). I don't care if Beane, Daboll, that last OC, the quarterback coach, the ball boy is talking into his ear to play Peterman.. but it's ultimately his decision and it was incredibly stupid. That said he's a defensive guy and if we let him focus on defense and have a capable OC make the big boy decisions on offense (think McVay letting Wade Phillips run the show on D), he could be a great coach in better circumstances.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 (edited) 16 hours ago, Cripple Creek said: I'd say that Marrone and Hackett have grown into a good HC/OC combo. Was it that way in Buffalo? No, but they have evolved. young Hackett versus old Hackett no? Also (as I mentioned) the Jags offense wasn't good until they brought Coughlin aboard Edited September 17, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan
BillsMafia13 Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Trogdor said: Not one decent pick up from Beane. All he does is add to the dead cap. I'm terrified of this regime with money. They can't evaluate at all. Since Whaley left, there hasn't been a single positive addition of pro personnel. Also, look at the FA pool. There are no good Olinemen to add. There was a post that got closed in the off-season that pointed this out perfectly. The first or second thing McD pointed out about every addition was their faith. It's clearly a high priority, but maybe we put too much stock in a guy that wasn't even a top 5 DC? The Pegulas royaled screwed this team by not allowing the GM to pick his coach. I havent paid much attention to the interviews after a signing. Have mcderms really been putting that much weight in to faith when hes signing/evaluating talent?
Bing Bong Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 1 hour ago, rodneykm said: This is exactly what I believe the staff wanted all along. They know next year, with all the cap space, we'll be able to greatly improve our offensive line and WR's. Doing this will give Josh the tools he needs to succeed. This year was always going to be a down year and I'm ok with that. I like what they are trying to accomplish. I vehemently disagree that "this year was always going to be a down year". Explain to me why a playoff team the year prior goes into the next year expecting to suck like it's a given and there's nothing that team could do about it. All we needed was a game manager quarterback, and some work on the offense (sign a FA WR, draft one not in the 6th round!). Instead we paid for Vontae Davis, Phillip Gaines, a Panthers rotational player in Star Lotuleilei (dude played 30-40% of snaps). We didn't keep EJ Gaines. We literally drafted NO day one offensive starters. If that is your offseason, and the only 2 quarterbacks on your roster are Josh Allen and Nathan Peterman, then yes, by that point I knew it this was going to be a "down year" (that's a VERY heavy understatement). Tell me why in March, the staff decided "this is going to be a down year, we are going to SUCK it's inevitable. Let's waste our tremendous contract values in the secondary for a year or 2, cause those guys didn't have anything to do with making the playoffs". That is the most loser approach to GM-ing - managing a roster. What if the staff said "Wow, we really exceeded expectations that year, we played winning football by managing field position, and using our tremendous strength in secondary to the best of our advantage. Going forward, let's get our quarterback, let's get someone comparable to Tyrod's level of game management (apparently TBD thinks that's not very hard! We coulda gotten anybody!) if he's not ready, let's sign a FA O-Lineman or WR we can start, let's not use our round 3 pick on Harrison Phillips and aim for another day one WR or O-Lineman starter, and see if our improved offense can have this team do even better the next year, given it's limitations last year. All of this could add up to a better year than before! We still need to make sure weget a replacement for Kyle Williams, but that facet of our defense was mitigated by our secondary strength. We can draft a Harrison Phillips type next year. We can improve our record and continue to accomplish our long term vision. It's sad. I called ourselves a poor man's version of the Jags. From the questionable quarterback play to the great secondary. And we chose not to pursue what gave us success last year. Instead we chose to suck, like beyond the point of reasonable expectations of sucking. When Beane's genius 5 year plan finally unfolds guess what happens to Tre White's, Poyer's, and Hyde's contracts? We're going to lose them. This strength of the secondary, and the value of the contracts provides us a window that we're just going to ignore. If this is "exactly what the staff wanted all along" I want them out of here in a hot minute, because we clearly can't give Josh Allen "the tools he needs to succeed" in one off-season. He's about 9 offensive tools short. The staff wanted us to be a laughing stock in the league "all along". Cool. I'd prefer a GM that tries. The Chiefs, the Bengals GMs (think any team with a GM that isn't incompetent) don't tear down their roster and purposely suck. They keep adding pieces, AND GET BETTER. It's easy to say you need 4 years of sucking to rebuild. It's a little more difficult to make the playoffs and.. ya know.. try to win and make the playoffs next year. But hey, that's what good GMs do.
BringBackOrton Posted September 17, 2018 Author Posted September 17, 2018 16 hours ago, Cripple Creek said: I'd say that Marrone and Hackett have grown into a good HC/OC combo. Was it that way in Buffalo? No, but they have evolved. Well maybe the difference was guy who is out of the league playing QB vs. Bortles.
Bing Bong Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 2 hours ago, Chuck Wagon said: Just like Boldin, who is an extremely well respected guy around the league. Saw this regime up close and got the heck out of town. Richie is Richie, but in the last 13 months there have been 3 long time NFL vets who quit on this team. Yes, this bothers me. Vets don't sign up for teams starting Peterman and gutting their roster. The ones currently on the team tend to retire when they see Beane's grand process unfolding and telling them "you're going to suck this year no matter how hard you try.. because I have a vision in a few years that doesn't involve you" I'd get out of that team as fast as possible. I worry Tre White is showing up every Sunday and not putting in his full effort because it doesn't matter. These guys are competitors. If your GM tells you he's tanking for no good reason (in the NFL) and you're going to suck all year, AND you made the playoffs last year, you'd be very disillusioned with your team. I honestly wonder if McDermott is frustrated with the situation, I think he probably is but will never admit it.
rodneykm Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 2 hours ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said: Tell me why in March, the staff decided "this is going to be a down year, we are going to SUCK it's inevitable. Let's waste our tremendous contract values in the secondary for a year or 2, cause those guys didn't have anything to do with making the playoffs". That is the most loser approach to GM-ing - managing a roster. They are resetting bad contacts and getting rid of problem child players. It was inevitable they'd be a down year. We've had a solid string of 20 in a row or so.
Bing Bong Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 1 minute ago, rodneykm said: They are resetting bad contacts and getting rid of problem child players. It was inevitable they'd be a down year. We've had a solid string of 20 in a row or so. Swap me the Star contract for some guys on offense, and we wouldn't suck so much. We did have money in free agency
rodneykm Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 2 hours ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said: All we needed was a game manager quarterback, and some work on the offense (sign a FA WR, draft one not in the 6th round!). Instead we paid for Vontae Davis, Phillip Gaines, a Panthers rotational player in Star Lotuleilei (dude played 30-40% of snaps). We didn't keep EJ Gaines. We literally drafted NO day one offensive starters. WIth the roster last year, our ceiling was exactly what happened. A first round exit. Look if you want to be stuck in the mud another 15 years, maybe we should go with your line of thinking. Tweak a roster that was barely playoff material just so we can win 9 games this year. Personally, I'm willing to be patient. 1
Alphadawg7 Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 (edited) 18 hours ago, Scott7975 said: I liked Marrone. I thought he was a good coach here and too many people dogged him. Hackett called a hell of a game too. Hackett? Really? I get the Marrone comment, I liked him too until he quit. But Hackett was literally the worst OC I had ever seen while he was with the Bills. Guy was a complete moron and out smarted himself time after time. 3rd and 1 would throw deep...3rd and 9 would run a draw or short pass. Guy was a moron and couldn't call his way out of a paper bag while he was here. NOTE: Doesn't mean he didn't learn and get better since, only commenting on the quality of job he did with the Bills, he was utterly the OC I have hated the most in my lifetime. Edited September 17, 2018 by Alphadawg7
QCity Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 5 minutes ago, rodneykm said: WIth the roster last year, our ceiling was exactly what happened. A first round exit. Look if you want to be stuck in the mud another 15 years, maybe we should go with your line of thinking. Tweak a roster that was barely playoff material just so we can win 9 games this year. Personally, I'm willing to be patient. Well said. Hey, anyone remember when Doug punted from the Jets 32 yard line?
Scott7975 Posted September 17, 2018 Posted September 17, 2018 16 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Hackett? Really? I get the Marrone comment, I liked him too until he quit. But Hackett was literally the worst OC I had ever seen while he was with the Bills. Guy was a complete moron and out smarted himself time after time. 3rd and 1 would throw deep...3rd and 9 would run a draw or short pass. Guy was a moron and couldn't call his way out of a paper bag while he was here. NOTE: Doesn't mean he didn't learn and get better since, only commenting on the quality of job he did with the Bills, he was utterly the OC I have hated the most in my lifetime. I meant that he called a hell of a game against the Pats yesterday.
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