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oldmanfan All Pro

oldmanfan

Posted
Posted
  On 9/15/2018 at 11:52 AM, PlayoffsPlease said:

You should realize you have cause and effect totally backwards.   Coaches that are successful are retained.  It is the success that leads to the continuity, not the other way around. 

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Incorrect.  You have to give good coaches time to get things set in place.  You think Cleveland doesn't regret keeping Belichick now?

 

I see your point though, and would say that identifying a guy that will be a successful HC in the NFL (or pretty much any pro sports team) is about as difficult as picking the right QB.  It is very difficult to figure out what coordinators have what it takes to make that next step up.  Some excellent coordinators top out at that level and flame out as HC. Ryan was a perfect example.  I was very skeptical when Terry hired him, because I never felt he was a good HC, while he was a great DC.  Terry quickly figured out his mistake in that case.

 

It comes down to having to have synchrony between the coaching staff and front office on a style of play, so you aren't changing schemes every three years or so, and then have to jettison certain players because they don't fit, and so on.  You jus keep spinning your wheels in that case.  

  On 9/15/2018 at 11:53 AM, SoTier said:

 

The most NFL successful teams don't hire inexperience HCs, give them control of personnel, and then hire inexperienced GMs without experience in managing personnel to do their bidding.

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Baltimore hired Harbaugh with no HC experience, and when Ozzie took over he had never been a GM.  Just as one example.

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4merper4mer
4merper4mer

What if we start 1-5, 2-4, 3-3, 4-2 or 5-1?  The Steelers and Browns have proven we can start 0-5-1, 0-4-2, 0-3-3, 0-2-4, 0-1-5, 1-4-1, 1-3-2, 1-2-3, 1-1-4, 2-3-1, 2-2-2, 2-1-3, 3-2-1, 3-1-2, or 4-1-1

LeGOATski
LeGOATski

FIRE JUAN CASTILLO.   DOOOOOOOOOO IIIIIIITTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   ??????

greeneblitz
greeneblitz

Nothing, it's probably going to be a bad season, everyone knows this including ownership I'm sure and "bench Allen"??? Him getting experience should be the whole point of the season.

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Gigs Rookie

Gigs

Posted
Posted
  On 9/15/2018 at 11:37 AM, oldmanfan said:

The Pats have had one HC in Belichick through their entire run.  They have had Scarrnecchia coaching their O line for years.  When guys get hired away because of their success they promote from within.  Nice try.

 

The most successful teams decide of their philosophy, have the front office and coaches in synch n that philosophy so they draft the right players, look at the right free agents, etc.  Steelers, Packers, Pats, Ravens.  Let Beane and McD do their jobs.  We'll find out in a few years if their philosophy works.  It did last year.

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The Pats are a team of musical chairs. And keeping 2 coaches and a QB, then trading or firing everyone else isn’t continuity. You’re right about the plan, which is superior to whatever lame talentless plan McBeane has, but even you supported my point that continuity means nothing in today’s NFL. It’s about talent and game planning, which the Pats have. 

 

Also last year’s team was a Whaley produced team with McDermott running it. They got worse when they traded away their best players towards the end of the season, and lucked into the playoffs off a desperation 4th down in a completely different game. I like the mentality McDermott brings to the locker room because comaraderie means more than continuity. However, he’s a softy. He will prop up goodie two shoes like “faith man” Peterman even tho everyone and his mother knew he sucked eggs. That’s not a good thing. I am starting to see McD as a Dick Jauron type, where DJ wanted those “high motor” “lunchpale” types like Chris Kelsay. I don’t want to see that again, but I am. I am seeing them trade away top talent like Dareus because he is the opposite of a “faith man” like Peterman. 

 

I know many pro McBeanes will flame me, whatever, it doesn’t change what is going on. Find me a winner who is as wholesome and clean as Peterman is. There’s a reason guys like him suck. There’s a reason even the best “faith men” can’t win; like Philip Rivers. No edge = No wins. You need that big head entitlement to be a winner. You have to take what’s yours...not fight a battle against evil or something like you’re David or something lame like that.

 

Namath, Brady, Favre, Mannings, Roethlisburger, honestly you could keep naming guys who were HOF good and always outnumber a list of Tebow’s and Petermans with their power being men of “faith.” You have to grab the NFL by the Lombardi; when you’re a superstar they let you do it. 

1st Ammendment NoMas Veteran

1st Ammendment NoMas

Posted
Posted

It's not how we start, it's how we finish this year. If the team shows improvement, especially Allen, then the impression is that "the process" is moving forward according to plan. 0-6 with a 4-12 finish or 0-6 with a 6-10 finish would be considered a success. The team had overcome adversity, survived cap hell and laid a foundation for the future and secured a top 5-10 pick.

 

Now 0-16, 1-15, 2-14, 3-13 could raise a few questions, but nothing would be considered until after the 2019 season. With a top 3 pick and 80m in spending if that team does not get to 8-8 or better,  Pegula may give McBeane 2020 as a last year to prove it. Bottom line is that it rides on Allen's shoulders. If he proves to be the next Jim Kelly, we can be set for 7-10+ years.

 

  On 9/15/2018 at 12:03 PM, Gigs said:

The Pats are a team of musical chairs. And keeping 2 coaches and a QB, then trading or firing everyone else isn’t continuity. You’re right about the plan, which is superior to whatever lame talentless plan McBeane has, but even you supported my point that continuity means nothing in today’s NFL. It’s about talent and game planning, which the Pats have. 

 

Also last year’s team was a Whaley produced team with McDermott running it. They got worse when they traded away their best players towards the end of the season, and lucked into the playoffs off a desperation 4th down in a completely different game. I like the mentality McDermott brings to the locker room because comaraderie means more than continuity. However, he’s a softy. He will prop up goodie two shoes like “faith man” Peterman even tho everyone and his mother knew he sucked eggs. That’s not a good thing. I am starting to see McD as a Dick Jauron type, where DJ wanted those “high motor” “lunchpale” types like Chris Kelsay. I don’t want to see that again, but I am. I am seeing them trade away top talent like Dareus because he is the opposite of a “faith man” like Peterman. 

 

I know many pro McBeanes will flame me, whatever, it doesn’t change what is going on. Find me a winner who is as wholesome and clean as Peterman is. There’s a reason guys like him suck. There’s a reason even the best “faith men” can’t win; like Philip Rivers. No edge = No wins. You need that big head entitlement to be a winner. You have to take what’s yours...not fight a battle against evil or something like you’re David or something lame like that.

 

Namath, Brady, Favre, Mannings, Roethlisburger, honestly you could keep naming guys who were HOF good and always outnumber a list of Tebow’s and Petermans with their power being men of “faith.” You have to grab the NFL by the Lombardi; when you’re a superstar they let you do it. 

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Don't tell Jim Kelley that.   But admittedly he was a bit of a cocky SOB when he got here.  And the Pats don't have any marginally better talent outside QB.  Having the GOAT elevates everyone whether they are a "lunchpail". "faith man" "convict" or "JAG".  Don't tell me Dorsett, Hogan and Burkhead are HOF's that drive fear into a Defense.  Gronk is the weapon, everyone else is JAG.



 

oldmanfan All Pro

oldmanfan

Posted
Posted
  On 9/15/2018 at 12:03 PM, Gigs said:

The Pats are a team of musical chairs. And keeping 2 coaches and a QB, then trading or firing everyone else isn’t continuity. You’re right about the plan, which is superior to whatever lame talentless plan McBeane has, but even you supported my point that continuity means nothing in today’s NFL. It’s about talent and game planning, which the Pats have. 

 

Also last year’s team was a Whaley produced team with McDermott running it. They got worse when they traded away their best players towards the end of the season, and lucked into the playoffs off a desperation 4th down in a completely different game. I like the mentality McDermott brings to the locker room because comaraderie means more than continuity. However, he’s a softy. He will prop up goodie two shoes like “faith man” Peterman even tho everyone and his mother knew he sucked eggs. That’s not a good thing. I am starting to see McD as a Dick Jauron type, where DJ wanted those “high motor” “lunchpale” types like Chris Kelsay. I don’t want to see that again, but I am. I am seeing them trade away top talent like Dareus because he is the opposite of a “faith man” like Peterman. 

 

I know many pro McBeanes will flame me, whatever, it doesn’t change what is going on. Find me a winner who is as wholesome and clean as Peterman is. There’s a reason guys like him suck. There’s a reason even the best “faith men” can’t win; like Philip Rivers. No edge = No wins. You need that big head entitlement to be a winner. You have to take what’s yours...not fight a battle against evil or something like you’re David or something lame like that.

 

Namath, Brady, Favre, Mannings, Roethlisburger, honestly you could keep naming guys who were HOF good and always outnumber a list of Tebow’s and Petermans with their power being men of “faith.” You have to grab the NFL by the Lombardi; when you’re a superstar they let you do it. 

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You clearly have no understanding of how the Pat's work or of how successful organizations become so.

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fansince88 Veteran

fansince88

Posted
Posted
  On 9/15/2018 at 11:23 AM, Gigs said:

Haha, yeah. The pegulas to me seem really easy to sway or charm, and Terry always has a soft spot for people. I really feel they could go 0-16 and not until they appear to suck next year will they finally do something. Maybe. 

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Perhaps the ones easy to sway is not the ownership but the fans. I dont see them wanting to fire anyone right now but the fans want people gone. Its a joke IMHO.

  On 9/15/2018 at 10:47 AM, LeGOATski said:

FIRE JUAN CASTILLO.

 

DOOOOOOOOOO IIIIIIITTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

??????

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Ok, we don't like him now? Im loosing track of who we like and dont like. A full breakdown would be great if you could

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Pine Barrens Mafia Hall of Famer

Pine Barrens Mafia

Posted
Posted
  On 9/15/2018 at 1:06 PM, fansince88 said:

Perhaps the ones easy to sway is not the ownership but the fans. I dont see them wanting to fire anyone right now but the fans want people gone. Its a joke IMHO.

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This guy gets it.

 

There was a term that used to be used here to describe the fan base that would now get one a ban for usage. I can PM it to you if you'd like.

 

MJS Hall of Famer

MJS

Posted
Posted

These are the hard games and the ones we probably should have lost anyway. The easier games come in the second half. I could easily see us having a putrid record in the first half and then winning a bunch of games in our second half.

 

I would prefer to not see Allen leave the field no matter what happens. Give him a Peyton Manning rookie year.

MJS Hall of Famer

MJS

Posted
Posted
  On 9/15/2018 at 1:06 PM, fansince88 said:

Ok, we don't like him now? Im loosing track of who we like and dont like. A full breakdown would be great if you could

Expand  

 

I got you covered. Right now we don't like:

- Anyone. Fire them all. They're the worst.

 

Once we win our first game, we'll like:

- Everyone. We have the best staff and will win the Superbowl.

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fansince88 Veteran

fansince88

Posted
Posted
  On 9/15/2018 at 12:03 PM, Gigs said:

The Pats are a team of musical chairs. And keeping 2 coaches and a QB, then trading or firing everyone else isn’t continuity. You’re right about the plan, which is superior to whatever lame talentless plan McBeane has, but even you supported my point that continuity means nothing in today’s NFL. It’s about talent and game planning, which the Pats have. 

 

Also last year’s team was a Whaley produced team with McDermott running it. They got worse when they traded away their best players towards the end of the season, and lucked into the playoffs off a desperation 4th down in a completely different game. I like the mentality McDermott brings to the locker room because comaraderie means more than continuity. However, he’s a softy. He will prop up goodie two shoes like “faith man” Peterman even tho everyone and his mother knew he sucked eggs. That’s not a good thing. I am starting to see McD as a Dick Jauron type, where DJ wanted those “high motor” “lunchpale” types like Chris Kelsay. I don’t want to see that again, but I am. I am seeing them trade away top talent like Dareus because he is the opposite of a “faith man” like Peterman. 

 

I know many pro McBeanes will flame me, whatever, it doesn’t change what is going on. Find me a winner who is as wholesome and clean as Peterman is. There’s a reason guys like him suck. There’s a reason even the best “faith men” can’t win; like Philip Rivers. No edge = No wins. You need that big head entitlement to be a winner. You have to take what’s yours...not fight a battle against evil or something like you’re David or something lame like that.

 

Namath, Brady, Favre, Mannings, Roethlisburger, honestly you could keep naming guys who were HOF good and always outnumber a list of Tebow’s and Petermans with their power being men of “faith.” You have to grab the NFL by the Lombardi; when you’re a superstar they let you do it. 

Expand  

As a "faith man" myself I have to ask you, Do you really have a problem with the lack of play or the beliefs of the individuals mentioned. Your post is pretty telling but I will give you the benefit of the doubt and let you explain.  There are lots of other "faith men" on the team that you did not mention that play well. 

  On 9/15/2018 at 1:14 PM, MJS said:

 

I got you covered. Right now we don't like:

- Anyone. Fire them all. They're the worst.

 

Once we win our first game, we'll like:

- Everyone. We have the best staff and will win the Superbowl.

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Best answer of the day

  On 9/15/2018 at 1:11 PM, LeGOATski said:

Now?

 

Where have you been?

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Well, last year we got the DC right but the OC wrong. That is until the losing streak. Then we liked him again.  I suppose that changed this year.

 

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Pine Barrens Mafia Hall of Famer

Pine Barrens Mafia

Posted
Posted
  On 9/15/2018 at 1:17 PM, fansince88 said:

As a "faith man" myself I have to ask you, Do you really have a problem with the lack of play or the beliefs of the individuals mentioned. Your post is pretty telling but I will give you the benefit of the doubt and let you explain.  There are lots of other "faith men" on the team that you did not mention that play well.

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hah, you handled that a whole lot more civilly than I would have. kudos to you.

 

 

LeGOATski Hall of Famer

LeGOATski

Posted
Posted
  On 9/15/2018 at 1:17 PM, fansince88 said:

Well, last year we got the DC right but the OC wrong. That is until the losing streak. Then we liked him again.  I suppose that changed this year.

 

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Idk what you're saying, but we've been hating Juan Castillo (the OL coach) since he was hired.

 

Welcome aboard.

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fansince88 Veteran

fansince88

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 9/15/2018 at 1:22 PM, LeGOATski said:

Idk what you're saying, but we've been hating Juan Castillo (the OL coach) since he was hired.

 

Welcome aboard.

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When did he move to O? I have to start a post. Be right back. LOL Im Thing Fraizer

Edited by fansince88
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