Sadly, McDermott is the wrong guy to develop his own guys

[starrymessenger]

36 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

to be fair to Beane, JuJu is in an explosive offense with Big Ben, and has A. Brown on the other side of him, and two capable TE's, and the best O-line in football.  Kupp is good, but also has a lot going for him.  Not sure how much better either are with the Bills.   

 

They are better than Zay. Both of them.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Domdab99 said:

I love how OP and so many other posters just sssume they know what is what was going on in the minds of the FO.

 

That's just the point. I don't. I'd love to ask them. All we are left to do is judge the outcomes of their thoughts.

[starrymessenger]

2 hours ago, The Bills Blog said:

Yes, but here's the thing: is Bridgewater a Christian?

 

A very reliable anonymous source told McCoach that Bridgewater was a Muslim from Africa.

[jrober38]

So far there is nothing that suggests Sean McDermott can evaluate quarterbacks. 

 

He forced Peterman on the field last year and it was a disaster, and he put Peterman on the field again this year and traded away the only veteran QB presence on the roster so we could get back a 5th round pick. 

 

Now we're stuck in a situation where Peterman is the laughing stock of the NFL, and Josh Allen is going to be forced onto the field with what's probably the worst supporting cast in the NFL. Allen is going to get sacked a ton because he obviously holds the ball too long, and his mechanics and fundamentals that he worked so hard to fix this offseason will be completely shot to hell over the next 3 weeks. 

 

This team is going to lose a lot of games this year, and at some point people will begin to criticize Allen, and criticize this regime for picking a guy 7th overall who everyone said was going to be a bust. Most QBs aren't able to overcome major struggles like that without their confidence dropping. Derek Carr who two years ago looked like a future franchise QB has regressed badly due to his confidence being shaken. Even Matt Ryan has seen his play decline dramatically.

 

Hard to imagine a rookie QB overcoming that issue. 

[John from Riverside]

I think it is too soon to tell

 

He didnt have a QB to groom in his first year because he went with the incombant vet

 

Nathan Peterman?   The 5th round pick?  You have to have TALENT to groom before you can make a determination.

 

Josh Allen is the starter and will be unless he leaves the field do to something unfortunate......evalate McD on this after this year.

 

 

[Iverwig]

5 hours ago, Steptide said:

I'm sure it's been said by people here since Allen was named starter, but part of me thinks McDermott wanted to start Peterman this entire season and "develop" Allen. McDermott didn't seem super excited about starting Allen, so I'm starting to wonder if it came from the top 

 

Except it is clear to everyone Peterman is not an NFL QB.  If that is the case and he didn't want to start Allen why haven't they signed another QB.  There is no way we can go back to Peterman with the way he has performed in the regular season.  As much as many on here complained about EJ at this point I would take him over Peterman.  With the lack of experience and skill for the QB position there is no excuse for Peterman to still be on this roster.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

38 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

 

They are better than Zay. Both of them.

 

Agreed - They absolutely are.  JuJu is slower, but he has shown the ability to get open more consistently than Zay - and CATCH the ball.  Kupp is a niche player, but he's already one of the better players in that niche in the NFL.  Doesn't mean Zay can't turn it around... but so far they have vastly out performed him.

[Alphadawg7]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

See I challenge that assertion - and this is not me trying to be smart after the event I challenged it before Baltimore. He had a terrific first drive in game 1 against an uber vanilla cover 2 Carolina defense and after that he didn't really impress me at all. He completed a few balls - which he struggled to do on Sunday - but he didn't look a radically improved player to me.

 

I’ve been saying this all preseason, he didn’t show us anything and yet people would just yell “80%” and ignore all the relevant in-game information that screamed the stat line was fools gold.  

 

After that one good drive against partial starters game 1, he threw an interception on the 2nd play of the next drive.  

 

First pass in game 2 was a dropped pick 6 against third stringers not on a roster right now.  His TD pass to Nick was broken coverage that my mom could have thrown, yet his throw was so weak that instead of having an untouched walk in TD, Nick had to wait for the pass and had to break a tackle because of it to still score.

 

His 3rd game he threw a lot of fluttery balls and his only TD was a dump off that Croom made a great play to run after the catch into a TD.

 

His stats were so misleading without context.  NP can’t use at least 30% of the field effectively because of his weak arm and even worse if you add in he can’t go deep without putting a ton of air on the ball giving DBs time to close on the ball.  That makes it impossible to succeed in the NFL.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I’ve been saying this all preseason, he didn’t show us anything and yet people would just yell “80%” and ignore all the relevant in-game information that screamed the stat line was fools gold.  

 

After that one good drive against partial starters game 1, he threw an interception on the 2nd play of the next drive.  

 

First pass in game 2 was a dropped pick 6 against third stringers not on a roster right now.  His TD pass to Nick was broken coverage that my mom could have thrown, yet his throw was so weak that instead of having an untouched walk in TD, Nick had to wait for the pass and had to break a tackle because of it to still score.

 

His 3rd game he threw a lot of fluttery balls and his only TD was a dump off that Croom made a great play to run after the catch into a TD.

 

His stats were so misleading without context.  NP can’t use at least 30% of the field effectively because of his weak arm and even worse if you add in he can’t go deep without putting a ton of air on the ball giving DBs time to close on the ball.  That makes it impossible to succeed in the NFL.

 

He's struggled under pressure so badly, and struggles when his first read isn't there.  He doesn't read the field quick enough, and doesnt have the arm strength or speed to buy time and make plays.  He's done.  Bring in a vet at this point... coach them up, and dump peterman in 2019.

[ctk232]

9 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Can't really disagree with you.

 

I think McDermott needs to defer all QB decisions and trust to Dabol and we should hope Dabol is the genius McCoy claimed him to be.

 

The decision to trade McCarron wouldn't have disturbed me very much if Allen were named starter because, to me, that would have been a coach pumping up both of his young QBs: Allen obviously as the starter but Peterman would be given at least some confidence not having to look over his shoulder at another backup.

 

Trading McCarron and starting Peterman says that McDermott so obviously just can't evaluate QBs.

 

So, yes, that's a bit scary 

1. All about deferring to Daboll. I'm growing tired of seeing DC's rise to HC levels and assume offensive authorities and decision making. To a degree, HC should be involved in most if not all personnel/roster decisions, but I would love to see McD defer more control of the offense to Daboll or someone who at least has grown on that side of the ball. To me, this would show tremendous leadership, and actually give us an idea of what our offensive future will look like.

 

2. Trading McCarron made most sense if the team was set on not keeping 3 QBs. Reason being, Beane wanted capital and we all knew Allen was making the roster. Leaving Peterman and McCarron, one of those would clearly demand more on the trading block, and doubly, save us more space against the cap. Given Nate's performance, he wouldn't eat up much cap space as QB2. 

 

2a. Tangentially, I don't think McBeane thought Peterman honestly gave us the best chance at winning this year, or was the QB of the future. They saw a guy in the offseason and preseason who played as though he could get this team 4-6, maybe even 7 wins, but ultimately would land them a fairly high pick in next year's draft. I doubt it was ever their intention to make another playoff run this year given the dead cap and old af roster, and Peterman gave them the one year solution at a cheap price while they could let Allen develop and see time on field where they saw fit. After the dumpster fire of an opener, their plans were derailed and forced the hand to start Allen. Either way, let's hope Allen comes out of this season more confident than he entered it, and we go and get this kid some OL and WR help in the offseason. 

 

[Lurker]

The hot takes keep on coming....

[Alphadawg7]

49 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

so it doesn't matter how much the two options suck?

 

I agree the issue was never finding an upgrade on Tyrod. I was ahead of the curve on that bus I'd have done it a year earlier and accepted you are gonna take a little pain with someone making more mistakes than TT.

 

But I don't agree that it simply doesn't matter that McCarron was so pathetic he couldn't beat out Peterman and that Peterman is, well, terrible. McCarron was not "the best guy they could afford." He couldn't beat out Nathan freaking Peterman. If Allen comes in off the bat and plays well he bails McDermott and Beane out - the same way Tyrod did when he came back into the starting lineup and helped the team make the playoffs. But for me to say it simply doesn't matter that our brain trust keeps making disastrous Quarterback calls and has an infatuation with a man who among many categories is the worst to ever play in the league...... yea.... that matters. And the Bills only have themselves to blame if Allen comes in and gets trashed by pass rushers.

 

My personnal opinion:

 

They knew AJM was probably a better choice to start week 1.  The decision to trade AJM was rooted in 2 factors:

 

1.  This is Allen’s team and neither QB had any long term potential here, so they were essentially both expendable.  They were not wanting to carry 3 QBs, someone has to go between Allen and AJM.

 

2.  Peterman has ZERO trade value.  No one who watched Peterman play that really knows what they are doing when evaluating a QB was going to believe Peterman has any value.  Evidence galore he doesn’t have the tools to succeed.  On the other hand AJM was still tradeable and that was main factor in why he was traded and Peterman stayed.  

 

The decision to start NP was more about having Allen sit then it was that they believe NP Can be a starter.

 

So I personally believe people are over reacting to the NP start innhow they are trashing McD.  The decision to me was circumstantial and not so much a poor job of evaluation.  At the end of the day, Peterman did the most he could with his reps in preseason and AJM didn’t rise to the occasion, so the descripency appeared minimal and thus they took the draft asset.

 

And if I am Beane and could do it all over again, I would still trade AJM and take the asset because neither AJM or NP matter, it’s Allens team.

[LABILLBACKER]

The hard part is you can't draft a top 10 qb and expect to also draft or acquire 4-5 quality olineman that same year. We pulled the trigger on Allen and I'm happy about. But the frightening part now is how are these scrub olineman going to keep him alive. Obviously we'll be drafting or signing multiple OL guys this spring.  But will it be too late? Aikman hung on for a year but Carr couldn't. Where will Josh fall in this.

[dubs]

4 hours ago, rodneykm said:

I love how people know exactly how good of a a coach McDermott is going to be after a year. Why aren't you guys on the scout team or on a coaching staff somewhere? 

 

Hahaha. Exactly. At this point I just come here to laugh. So many experts and mind readers here. Amazing NFL teams havent swooped in to hire all these experts!

 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 hour ago, Domdab99 said:

I love how OP and so many other posters just sssume they know what is what was going on in the minds of the FO.

 

I've said it before, it's not that. It's that the FO did what they didn't like and because they disagree, they assume the FO was wrong. Once you make that step, all bets are off for logical conversation.

 

[jrober38]

45 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I think it is too soon to tell

 

He didnt have a QB to groom in his first year because he went with the incombant vet

 

Nathan Peterman?   The 5th round pick?  You have to have TALENT to groom before you can make a determination.

 

Josh Allen is the starter and will be unless he leaves the field do to something unfortunate......evalate McD on this after this year.

 

 

 

I think it's a major problem that McDermott genuinely thought Peterman was an upgrade over Tyrod last year. 

 

That was as big a swing and a miss you'll see from an NFL Head Coach. 

[GunnerBill]

18 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

My personnal opinion:

 

They knew AJM was probably a better choice to start week 1.  The decision to trade AJM was rooted in 2 factors:

 

1.  This is Allen’s team and neither QB had any long term potential here, so they were essentially both expendable.  They were not wanting to carry 3 QBs, someone has to go between Allen and AJM.

 

2.  Peterman has ZERO trade value.  No one who watched Peterman play that really knows what they are doing when evaluating a QB was going to believe Peterman has any value.  Evidence galore he doesn’t have the tools to succeed.  On the other hand AJM was still tradeable and that was main factor in why he was traded and Peterman stayed.  

 

The decision to start NP was more about having Allen sit then it was that they believe NP Can be a starter.

 

So I personally believe people are over reacting to the NP start innhow they are trashing McD.  The decision to me was circumstantial and not so much a poor job of evaluation.  At the end of the day, Peterman did the most he could with his reps in preseason and AJM didn’t rise to the occasion, so the descripency appeared minimal and thus they took the draft asset.

 

And if I am Beane and could do it all over again, I would still trade AJM and take the asset because neither AJM or NP matter, it’s Allens team.

 

I have no problem with trading AJ. None. I'd have taken that deal too. My problems with the way this has gone date back much further in the offseason. 

[Da webster guy]

6 hours ago, todd said:

 

Ridiculous. New offense, roster turnover, one game into the second year of a coaching regime, and you've decided he can't develop a QB? Seriously, that's just insane. 

 

And we spend the least amount of money in salary than any other team in the league.  By a lot.  In addition, we are killing over $50M in dead money this year, the average is about $15 million and the next closest team to us is Dallas which is $27M.     

 

Don't judge McD on developing anyone yet, the guy hasn't even started his second season for god's sake.   We can't do anything this year except develop our qb and try to have some fun along the way.  It's a tough pill to swallow short term but that's what we're doing and there's only one way to do it which is gamble on a qb and hope he pans out, then try to have your cap in shape so when you're ready to make your run it's still within the qb's 5 year rookie deal (and Edmunds) and you can pay some big free agents.

 

Next year we have all of our picks plus an extra 4th (Ragland trade) 5th (Mccarron) and a 7th (kevon Seymour).   

 

 

[John from Riverside]

52 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

I think it's a major problem that McDermott genuinely thought Peterman was an upgrade over Tyrod last year. 

 

That was as big a swing and a miss you'll see from an NFL Head Coach. 

And he promptly corrected it the following game

 

You get plenty of NFL HC's that through ego will not reverse their decisions once they have made a decision like that.

 

By the way.....our offense was playing putrid at that time so lets lot just discuss this in a vacuum.......Tyrod obviously did not fit what his OC was trying to get done offensively.....Peterman was the other QB on the roster....and you cannot get a street free agent ready in enough time to play that game.

 

If you want to make a case that peterman should not even be on the roster and we should have went another direction for veteran qb....I cant really argue with that....only that McD had very little to work with at that time.

 

That was then....this is now.....HIS QB is under center (why ppl think Peterman is a McD qb and Josh Allen is not baffles me...they are BOTH his selected qbs)

[Agent 91]

7 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

The preseason isn’t a great indicator of a QB’s progress (or lack thereof in Nate’s case).  As you said, teams play conservatively in coverage and then try to wrap up and tackle. They don’t break hard on balls to avoid big collisions. They don’t reveal any exotic looks designed to confuse the QB because they don’t want tape on it before the regular season. They rest guys that have the slightest bumps and replace them with backups. The best players play the least snaps. Nate is fine if you want to play a rythym passing game against a team that isn’t trying to disrupt your rythym.

 

That’s the problem though. When the game matters teams know that if they can disrupt his timing he has no chance. The play that was the best indicator was when the DL dropped into the passing lane and then dropped the INT. I think he got picked again on the next play. The DBs got right up in the receivers faces daring Peterman to make a play beyond them. They cranked up the pressure to throw off his timing and get him uncomfortable in the pocket. EXACTLY what people thought would happen, happened. It will happen again if he is ever thrust back into the lineup. That’s why he can’t play. He is just too easy to defend. The fact that we could see that but McDermott couldn’t is terrifying.

Which is the exact rationale I have as to why I refuse to say Allen looked better than Peterman last week. After the 3 points we put up Baltimore called off the dogs and went into preservation mode. I'm not saying "he was bad", but I dont think last week was the performance we can look at when trying to figure out what we have in Allen.