Sadly, McDermott is the wrong guy to develop his own guys

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

7 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

He opens up everything for his teams offense.

 

 

 

 

 

#elitedecoy

 

the greatest TSW meme of all time

 

[hondo in seattle]

21 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

To your first paragraph, wrong.

 

The Bills and Whaley drafted OK,

not bad, but not good either. The new regime decided to jettison A LOT of those young, solid NFL draft picks, because of culture or process or whatever you want to call it. 

 

And no. They weren't in cap hell. They didn't have a ton of cap room, but cap hell? Not even close.

 

These are just more excuses to justify the crap roster that the Bills currently have. What good is cap space when FA is basically slim pickings due to just about EVERY team having sufficient cap space and having the ability to resign their own good players? 

 

Beane and McDermott are "up against" that because they CHOSE to be up against It.

 

It doesn't take 5 years to build a winner. McBeane went with this approach and there's no telling if that will work. Hell, I doubt they even make it there. 

 

 

Your telling me they had no other way to trade up then trade Cordy Glenn? 

 

I'd rather them trade off all those draft picks they had to trade up then a proven commodity on the OL like Glenn.

 

 

The Bills drafted okay.    I don't where to begin with that statement.   Whaley was pretty good at identifying FA talent.  He was poor at the draft.

 

Cap Hell.  I said we're currently in draft hell (partly due to Beane jettisoning some of Whaley's players/contracts).  It's simply a fact.  We have far more dead money this year ($53 million) than any team in the NFL.  We pay less this year ($126 million) than any team in the NFL on current player salaries.   Based on payroll, we have the worst roster in the NFL.  We simply don't have enough money this year to field a competitive football team.

 

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space/

 

There's no doubt Beane has made mistakes and Cordy may have been one of them.  Even good personnel guys make mistakes.  Hell, Bill Walsh famously told Marv Levy he needed to draft Trent Edwards.  

 

But what we want to know is if Beane's overall team-building strategy will work.  And it's obvious both from his interviews and his actions that he's trying to spend cap space wisely by first jettisoning the overpaid players.  And he's trying to acquire draft picks because he has faith in his ability to draft well.  

Whether his efforts succeed in the end remains to be seen.  It's still early in the process.  But Beane is not a short-term guy.  None of his actions so far suggested that he was aiming to make 2018 a good year.  He's looking at 2019 and beyond.  

[quinnearlysghost88]

8 hours ago, BigDingus said:

So I've waited until the new week to start any threads. Didn't want to come on and say "told you so," as I've been posting about our line, QB group, and glaring issues all off season but was dismissed time & time again as just being negative. 

But there's one thing I've been optimistic about, that I knew in the back of my head was just the homer in me...Our organization's ability to develop a QB. I believed this coaching staff would finally do right, and end our ineptitiude since Jim Kelly. Evidence points to the contrary however, and it's definitely a huge concern.

This staff just last week was confident & had faith in Peterman as the starter. They watched him for a full NFL season, and another off season, and believed this guy was a worthy NFL QB. Half way through game 1, they already pulled him and threw the rookie in who they clearly didn't want to start. Now he's the starter going in to game 2 because it's "what's best for the franchise" (he only made that point clear a million times). But how can we have faith he has any idea what's best for the franchise? Not even 5 days ago Peterman was what he thought was best for the franchise. Last season he thought benching Taylor, then yanking his replacement (again in 1 half) & throwing Taylor back in was what was best! He thought signing McCarron, then trading him & running with 2 inexperienced QB's as our group was what was best for the franchise. 

Yeah, why would we ever need McCarron when we got these 2 studs here locking down the fort? You already exhausted & killed any hope one of your 2 options was ever going to succeed, and with 15 games left you're already down to your last hope....the raw, project, "potential," QB who fights to hit 50% of his passes in high school & college, against Mountain West competition, and hasn't done anything in his football career, and now is asked to suddenly do things he's NEVER been able to do but against the best competition in the world!!?

I like McDermott. I think he's a good coach. I think he's a good leader. But he's shown he's already thrown up too many red flags to say he knows how to develop a QB properly, or even knows how to identify a good QB in the first place. Having a veteran on the team for the rookie to learn from & to lead your young group would've been the most obvious, easy thing to do to at least help learn the ropes & to mentor these guys, but we didn't even do that! 

All this while setting these 2 guys up with what's likely to be the worst offense in the NFL... A line that fans wanted to pretend would somehow just become good with the loss of its best players (great logic), and by having one of the most mediocre WR corps around...these 2 QB's are setup to fail no matter what they do. And with this schedule? Ravens, Chargers, Vikings to start the season? Yeah, don't worry...those defenses will surely be nice warmups for these guys

And yes, a QB getting smashed to oblivion can ruin their career & shot at ever becoming decent. David Carr was shell shocked, and took a record amount of sacks his rookie year. Allen isn't going to fare much better, and it's not his fault. The guy can't help but do what the coaches tell him, and he can't develop in conditions that aren't conducive to his success. He wasn't close to pro ready, and now he's being thrown to the wolves. Way to go McBeane... I didn't expect a winning season. I didn't expect a playoff repeat. But I DID expect you to handle this situation with respect to the position & process, rather than attempting to systematically make every bad decision that has historically ruined QB's careers.

 

They were confident in Peterman starting because he had some of the best preseason numbers in the nfl and because they didn’t want to throw Allen to the wolves. Also Mccaron laid an egg. Not much choice beyond that. 

[oldmanfan]

11 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

As would I John.

 

I just think they holding on to a top LT like Glenn and trading up for Allen could've easily been accomplished by giving up other assets such as draft picks which they obviously had available. 

They want draft picks because they want to build primarily through the draft.  With what they did last year they were able to get the two premier guys they wanted, including the guy they see as their franchise QB and their defensive leader for years to come.  And even using the picks they had to in order to get them, they still have ten picks next year and a ton of cash for the FA market.

 

Here's what you would have done if they had traded a bunch of picks instead of Glenn.  You'd blast them for giving up so many picks and not building through the draft.

18 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

And Dareus was a top 5 DT in the NFL at one point in his NFL career. Maybe top 3. And he's playing well in Jacksonville. 

 

Watkins talent is undeniable. He opens up everything for his teams offense. His numbers have been inconsistent(which doesn't nearly tell the whole story) but obviously teams think very high of him considering the contract he just got from one of the more successful coaches in the league. 

 

 

 

 

I still would have liked them to keep Watkins.  But it's undeniable that for the past year he's essentially been a decoy. 

[zow2]

I sat inside M&T Bank stadium with a relative from Baltimore who is a big Ravens fan.  He was literally dumbfounded by the Bills.  He kept asking me, did these guys even have a training camp? Did the coaches prepare them for anything at all?  From the QB, receivers, O-line, DB's, Punter...literally every unit he said looked like they've never practiced.  And I couldn't argue with him.  McD needs to make a huge coaching "comeback" because I'm really starting to lose faith in this guy and the staff he's assembled,,,and the decisions he has made along with Beane.

[RyanC883]

4 hours ago, bills11 said:

I agree with you completely ..I meant from McDermott's perspective. I wasn't impressed with Peterman at all this offseason..but the organization felt good enough about him to not sign an experienced signal caller . That's the alarming part . Not to mention the lack of production from Zay jones ...with juju and Cooper kupp picked many picks after him you start to question Beane...

 

to be fair to Beane, JuJu is in an explosive offense with Big Ben, and has A. Brown on the other side of him, and two capable TE's, and the best O-line in football.  Kupp is good, but also has a lot going for him.  Not sure how much better either are with the Bills.   

[Trogdor]

1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Let's set the stage:  The Bills have the fewest number of homegrown players in the league.  In other words, we haven't drafted well in the past.  And this year we're in Cap Hell because of bad signings in the past.  In fact, we're spending less on current player salaries than any team in the NFL.   So we have virtually no talent we've drafted ourselves and we can't afford to pay for FAs.  That's what Beane  and McD are up against.  This season they have a team will little talent.   Their plan is to improve the cap situation so they can sign better FAs and draft better than the previous regime.  It's going to take time.  

 

So in this past free agency, we dumped TT to get his salary off our books and get some draft capital.  

 

We also signed AJ - the best vet FA QB would could afford.  We still had Peterman.  And we drafted Allen - a guy who many scouts and former NFL QBs believe has a lot of upside despite your misgivings.

 

Peterman - surprisingly - outplayed the other guys in preseason and won the QB competition.  AJ disappointed in camp, got  hurt, and was traded away for more draft capital.  

 

Coaches tend to publicly say they have faith in their players because players play better when they have the confidence of their coaches.  It's a well known psychological phenomenon called the Pygmalion Effect.  You have no idea what McD privately thought of Peterman.  Given what we saw of Peterman last year, I seriously doubt that McD ever considered Peterman a franchise QB.  I suspect he considered Peterman a placeholder until Allen developed a better ability to read NFL defenses.  

 

But when Peterman faced a real NFL defensive scheme playing at regular season speed, he couldn't approximate his preseason success.  So Allen's getting the starting nod earlier in the season than maybe expected or ideal.   But most Bills fans and observers expected Allen to start at some point this year anyway.  

 

I'm not sure how this series of events lead you to conclude McD doesn't know how to develop QBs?  Dallas threw Aikman to the wolves his first year.  And speaking of Carrs, Oakland threw Derek Carr to the wolves and it didn't ruin him.  Putting a rookie behind a bad line on a bad team doesn't necessarily ruin him.  It depends on the resiliency of the the QB.  I'm not even convinced that David Carr was "ruined" by his rookie year - he just might not have been quite good enough for the NFL.  

 

No one can look at this roster or Week 1's result and be happy.  But nothing leads me to the conclusion that McD doesn't know how to develop a QB.  

I can't agree with this. There are a lot of Bills draft picks performing in the league right now. The failure has been both sticking to a scheme and retaining players. How many talented guys were a casualty of the 4-3 to 3-4 to 4-3? Someone already pointed out that Bridgewater was actually cheaper than AJ. I would also say that the jury is still out on Derek Carr. He had a fantastic two year run, but hasn't looked as dominant lately. Hits and injuries will wear anyone down.  

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, Trogdor said:

I can't agree with this. There are a lot of Bills draft picks performing in the league right now. The failure has been both sticking to a scheme and retaining players. How many talented guys were a casualty of the 4-3 to 3-4 to 4-3? Someone already pointed out that Bridgewater was actually cheaper than AJ. I would also say that the jury is still out on Derek Carr. He had a fantastic two year run, but hasn't looked as dominant lately. Hits and injuries will wear anyone down.  

I agree, which is why the takes on firing the current HC and GM based on one game are ridiculous.  We need continuity.

[BillsVet]

The big concern with McCoach and Beane is that they (more the former) prioritized defense in an offensive driven league during the first 2 years rebuilding. It's not surprising, but a flawed strategy that many DCs who become HCs follow. 

 

In 2 off-seasons  Buffalo has, on defense, signed Hyde, Poyer, Lotulelei, Murphy, and V. Davis as free agents. They've used high picks on T. White, Edmunds, and Phillips while inheriting Kyle Williams, Jerry Hughes, and Lorenzo Alexander.

 

Their additions on offense are limited to Allen, Dawkins, Z. Jones, and Benjamin.  After the departures of Incognito and Wood, the holdovers on offense from the RR years are McCoy and Charles Clay.

 

It's not surprising that a DC turned HC wants to rebuild the defense first.  It's just not a good strategy.

 

  

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, GG said:

I guess we have different interpretations on the flexibility that Beane had in March. 

 

For a team that currently has $7 million in cap space, allocating $20 million to a bridge QB would be more reckless because that would mean cutting the roster much more.

 

We spent it on a corner who was a healthy scratch, a running back who was 3rd in the rotation and a DE who was injured all pre-season and limped around all game instead.

[Trogdor]

44 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

It is. They traded up for a wr, drafted Dareus in easily the best draft of the past 10 years. They were ludicrously BAD at drafting.

 

Dareus was the most dominant DT in the NFL by the numbers before Rex. Outside of a QB, the one glaring need the year they drafted Sammy was a WR. It's poor hindsight when you don't consider the teams at that time. 

[Golden*Wheels]

Everybody gets some wrong. And I was prepared for what this year might/probably will become (A throwaway, record wise).

 

But the whole Peterman process (Drafting him period, thinking he was ready last year, thinking he was ready this year) does have me worried so far as their general QB-evaluation skills go, since the same guys also just chose the future of the franchise. Peterman stinks, stinks too badly to even be a PLACEHOLDER qb. It's their job to know that before I do. They blew it. Here's hoping they got it right with Josh.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

 I disagree with you and Gunner's characterization of the qb situation. The both of you are portraying it as a gross miscalculation in investing in a qb (Peterman) when it was nothing of the sort. From a consequential standpoint It really didn't matter whether McCarron or Peterman won the starting job because both of them were going to have the same role as being placeholders for Allen. The issue was always when was Josh going to be ready? So the team got steamrolled in the first game. The positive that can be taken way from that ugly first game is that it accelerated the time table for Allen. The real critical question is will starting him so quickly hurt or help his development?

 

But it does..... because Peterman was never, ever, ever, in a million years going to be capable of that. Why? Because he is not an NFL level talent. He just isn't. Never was, never will be.  So it matters because:

 

A) It has undoubtedly changed the calculation from "when is Allen ready?" to "Allen is our only viable option." I'd have started Allen day 1 because I always felt he was our only viable option. But the Bills obviously had some sort of timetable in mind and that is out of the water because of the rather regrettable way they approach competition for their first round pick in March and April.

 

B) It really worries me that our brain trust couldn't see what should have been obvious. I'd love to get McDermott, Beane and Dabol in a room away from the cameras and the microphones and ask them what they saw. Because if these guys really think Nathan Peterman can play in this league it is a significant worry about their evaluation skills.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

5 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

Answer: see Houston Texans in 2017

Are you suggesting the rookie (Allen) will come in and make things look much better like Watson did?

 

1. 2017 Texans were a much better team all around then the 2018 Bills.

2. 2017 Watson was likely much more ready to play in the NFL then 2018 Allen.

 

[vorpma]

Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah!

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Excellent post BigDingus. None of us should have any faith in McDermott's or even Beane's ability to evaluate the QB position. I know Beane did not draft Peterman but he could have cut him at any time since he arrived here or brought in a legitimate veteran that Peterman would not have started over at anytime.

 

Making things even more problematic is that we took the QB that on paper needs to be coached up the most. These coaches likely would have been better off with a more pro ready prospect like Rosen. 

 

All we can do at this point is hope for the best for Allen.

[Fadingpain]

Oh God.  When Allen struggles, this place will be talking about how he was "ruined" nonstop.

 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

55 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I don't think Beane & McD ever considered Peterman an upgrade over TT.  That wasn't the point.   Ditching TT gave us picks and salary cap relief.  Peterman ended up with the role we expected AJ to fill: a low cost snap-receiver until Allen (or a future acquisition) steps up to be the QB we really want.  

 

so it doesn't matter how much the two options suck?

 

I agree the issue was never finding an upgrade on Tyrod. I was ahead of the curve on that bus I'd have done it a year earlier and accepted you are gonna take a little pain with someone making more mistakes than TT.

 

But I don't agree that it simply doesn't matter that McCarron was so pathetic he couldn't beat out Peterman and that Peterman is, well, terrible. McCarron was not "the best guy they could afford." He couldn't beat out Nathan freaking Peterman. If Allen comes in off the bat and plays well he bails McDermott and Beane out - the same way Tyrod did when he came back into the starting lineup and helped the team make the playoffs. But for me to say it simply doesn't matter that our brain trust keeps making disastrous Quarterback calls and has an infatuation with a man who among many categories is the worst to ever play in the league...... yea.... that matters. And the Bills only have themselves to blame if Allen comes in and gets trashed by pass rushers.

[Domdab99]

I love how OP and so many other posters just sssume they know what is what was going on in the minds of the FO.

[Shaw66]

Peterman was not the clear winner. SI says it was close and by August the Bills had decided Allen would be the starter soon. The Bengals game gave them pause, so they went with Peterman.  

 

They didn't think Peterman was the savior. They just hoped he could buy them a little time.  Turned out he bought them a little less time than they hoped.