Sadly, McDermott is the wrong guy to develop his own guys

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

As I said above they should bring in a guy like Anderson now.  They perhaps could have gotten a guy like him vs. McCarron.  Not sure it would have made a whole lot of difference.

 

They could have got Teddy Bridgewater or Sam Bradford or Josh McCown or Case Keenum.  They didn't have to wait until the vet QB carousel stopped spinning and take the last man standing.

 

Or they could have drafted one of the more "ready to start" QBs in the draft (though I always think shoot in the draft for the guy you think will be the best and if that genuinely was Allen in their opinion then fair enough even if I don't agree).

 

Then coming out of the draft knowing what they were left with - the last vet standing and the project from the draft - they could have at that point gone and got someone like Moore or Anderson who has started more than 5 NFL games as an insurance policy.

 

Anyone who is even barely capable as an NFL QB would make a huge difference from Peterman. This staff have overvalued his worth since the moment they wasted a 5th round pick on him. 

[rodneykm]

I love how people know exactly how good of a a coach McDermott is going to be after a year. Why aren't you guys on the scout team or on a coaching staff somewhere? 

[GreggTX]

Sadly, people don't understand that we're rebuilding and couldn't fill all the holes in the roster in a single offseason. I agree they didn't have the team ready last Sunday, but if they show any progress before December that would be a positive.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 hour ago, todd said:

 

Ridiculous. New offense, roster turnover, one game into the second year of a coaching regime, and you've decided he can't develop a QB? Seriously, that's just insane. 

 

I think what's going on with this board is something along the lines of the following:

 

"They didn't do what I wanted them to do, so therefore they must not know what they're doing."

 

[oldmanfan]

21 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They could have got Teddy Bridgewater or Sam Bradford or Josh McCown or Case Keenum.  They didn't have to wait until the vet QB carousel stopped spinning and take the last man standing.

 

Or they could have drafted one of the more "ready to start" QBs in the draft (though I always think shoot in the draft for the guy you think will be the best and if that genuinely was Allen in their opinion then fair enough even if I don't agree).

 

Then coming out of the draft knowing what they were left with - the last vet standing and the project from the draft - they could have at that point gone and got someone like Moore or Anderson who has started more than 5 NFL games as an insurance policy.

 

Anyone who is even barely capable as an NFL QB would make a huge difference from Peterman. This staff have overvalued his worth since the moment they wasted a 5th round pick on him. 

That presupposes the Jets we're going to trade McCown or Teddy, they could have freed up another 10-20 million in cap space for Keenum or Bradford.  Beane was pretty clear he wanted to get his QB in a draft with a number of prospects.  I was a Rosen guy myself but I'm warming up to the idea of Allen.

9 minutes ago, rodneykm said:

I love how people know exactly how good of a a coach McDermott is going to be after a year. Why aren't you guys on the scout team or on a coaching staff somewhere? 

It is worth note that the coach in question was the coach of a playoff team last year.

[Bob in STL]

I’m thinking we give them a second game before making such assertions.  Maybe even a second season. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Bob in STL said:

I’m thinking we give them a second game before making such assertions.  Maybe even a second season. 

 

STOP WITH YOUR REASONABLE TAKES WE CAN'T HAVE THAT HERE.

 

[Mark80]

Don't really understand how hard this is to comprehend.

 

AJ McCarron ain't crap.  He's been in the league a whopping 4 years before this year, playing sparingly.  What gives him the credentials to be such a great veteran presence to guide young QBs?  Does just being in the league for 4 years qualify you for that?  He was so good that no other teams wanted him really and we got him for the huge sum of $5M per year.  Impressive.

 

Peterman is a practice and Pre-Season superstar.  Last season Tyrod was terrible.  I'm sorry, he was.  I don't care if he didn't throw any picks.  You know what else he didn't throw?  Touch downs!  Peterman looked good in practice so they gave him a shot because they saw the obvious, Tyrod wasn't going to cut it.  It was a disaster, so they went back to Tyrod as our best option.  Then this season, it was blatantly obvious that he was the best of the bunch in the pre-season games.  How could you not roll with him based on that performance?  How could you keep the room by saying it was an open QB competition, but then you chose Allen over Peterman even though he was clearly better on the field in games?  Peterman got another shot, blew it again and was replaced, most likely for good this time.  Peterman earned the chance, didn't deliver.  Now we move on to Allen and see what we got, maybe a bit before they are 100% comfortable doing so, but the realization that Peterman just doesn't get it in "real" speed came quick and the decision to change was decisive. 

 

It's really not that complicated at all folks. 

[chris heff]

1 hour ago, todd said:

 

Ridiculous. New offense, roster turnover, one game into the second year of a coaching regime, and you've decided he can't develop a QB? Seriously, that's just insane. 

What would indicate that these guys have a clue? If the plan was to draft QB of the future why trade Taylor? Taylor could have held the place and mentored Allen certainly as well as McCarron. At least sign someone that has started more than five games. Then they doubled down by deciding that going with Peterman and Allen was fine. Then they tripled down by starting Peterman. He is almost as much a rookie as Allen, two NFL starts. Now they are out of options. There are people on this site that would have done better.

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

That presupposes the Jets we're going to trade McCown or Teddy, they could have freed up another 10-20 million in cap space for Keenum or Bradford.

 

 

No it doesn't. All 4 were FAs. McCown re-signed with the Jets in the legal tampering period, Bridgewater signed there too. All 4 were "on the market" but we waited it out and signed the guy with 5 starts. I agree McCarron was cheaper but to quote a line from the classic British sitcom Fawlty Towers "and the reason he's cheap is that he's no bloody good."

[Wayne Cubed]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No it doesn't. All 4 were FAs. McCown re-signed with the Jets in the legal tampering period, Bridgewater signed there too. All 4 were "on the market" but we waited it out and signed the guy with 5 starts. I agree McCarron was cheaper but to quote a line from the classic British sitcom Fawlty Towers "and the reason he's cheap is that he's no bloody good."

 

Yea and it was said at the time that all these guys were too expensive for what the Bills wanted to pay. 

[GG]

39 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They could have got Teddy Bridgewater or Sam Bradford or Josh McCown or Case Keenum.  They didn't have to wait until the vet QB carousel stopped spinning and take the last man standing.

 

Or they could have drafted one of the more "ready to start" QBs in the draft (though I always think shoot in the draft for the guy you think will be the best and if that genuinely was Allen in their opinion then fair enough even if I don't agree).

 

Then coming out of the draft knowing what they were left with - the last vet standing and the project from the draft - they could have at that point gone and got someone like Moore or Anderson who has started more than 5 NFL games as an insurance policy.

 

Anyone who is even barely capable as an NFL QB would make a huge difference from Peterman. This staff have overvalued his worth since the moment they wasted a 5th round pick on him. 

 

Out of all those options, I think the last one is the most realistic.  McCown wasn't leaving the Jets.  We don't know how much the Bills were in the bidding in the first stage of QB FA, but looking at the contracts those guys signed, it was clear that the Bills were out of the running soon.

 

I had no problem with going into camp with McCarron as the back up.  I do have a problem with only Peterman in that role now.

[GunnerBill]

I have no problem with people saying "I understand why the Bills made the choices they did even if they are not working out too well with hindsight." It is the "what other choice did they have?" narrative that riles me. More than maybe any other free agency period for Quarterbacks in recent history there WERE choices.

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I have no problem with people saying "I understand why the Bills made the choices they did even if they are not working out too well with hindsight." It is the "what other choice did they have?" narrative that riles me. More than maybe any other free agency period for Quarterbacks in recent history there WERE choices.

I get your point.  I think it was primarily cap issues that were involved. 

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I get your point.  I think it was primarily cap issues that were involved. 

 

And I get that..... but unless the guys they did spend their $$s on up their game hindsight will not be kind to the decisions they made.

[BigBuff423]

I find it interesting everyone - AFTER ONE FREAKING WEEK - is ready to throw in the towel on how this team, i.e. McDermott, develops talent and in this thread's specific case, QB. I don't know why it's so hard for fans to understand what has actually happened when you take the intent of Beane and McD with what happened in the Off-season to know this season was essentially a virtual guarantee to be a rough one, and they knew it. Tyrod Taylor is not Josh McCown or some other wily Vet who would have been content to mentor the new QB savior of the Buffalo Bills. He wanted to start and he wanted some room to show he could continue to start as a QB for years to come, that wasn't happening in Buffalo. They had him for one more year on a $16 million deal for ONE year. That means, they would have had to either pay him again or let him go. Some of you people that are complaining about not keeping him, with one year left on a deal, are the same that would be complaining that the Bills didn't at least get a ham sandwich for him. Well, they did much better than that because what they got in return led to Edmunds - who some had going in the top 10, the Bills got at 16.

 

Additionally, Beane and McD planned to strip away all of the poor contracts doled out by Whaley and they knew it was going to be hard for the first two years, in order to Draft their guys, sign the talent they believed fit the team and left the driftwood of the dead Cap money float away. Furthermore, they were also getting rid of guys (although I didn't and still don't like the Darby trade) who they didn't feel met their expectations of team first mentality. 

 

Then you have the retirement of Wood which came unexpectedly, and yes it was early in the Off-season but if you couldn't tell these guys had a plan and they were NOT deviating from that plan. Then, when they thought Richie was still in the fold for one more year, he abruptly "retires" because he didn't like the renegotiated deal. That's two big pieces that were originally unanticipated. Again, they could have responded but what were they to do? They could have tried to throw money at a guy like Nate Solder or Norwell, but they were bound and determined to set themselves free from Cap hell. And guess what....they have. They're sucking it up this year to make the long-term better. 

 

In the interim, they Drafted their future in Allen and Edmunds and still came away with Horrible Harry which may very well be the steal of the Draft and a guy like Teller who might start on the Offensive line next year, not bad for a 5th round pick. But we forget, none of these guys would be here (except maybe Harrison Phillips) if it weren't for the other trades to get them in position to make these moves. 

 

It sucks to watch a poor Offensive line be truly ineffective and the hodge-podge mix of WRs and Clay who has never come close to his contract run routes. But that said, if we were to reverse the two years: last year this total tear-down and looking ugly and this year we slipped into the playoffs, would fans be so impatient? I don't think so....last year was great, and I'm glad that damn monkey got sitting our backs got his throat slit, but I think any reasonable fan knew this was a 2 to 3 year rebuild. They're doing what they can to win now - i.e. bringing in Kerley as a the slot guy, and Star and Trent, in a way that doesn't over extend themselves and we're still JUST ONE GAME into the season. Who knows how this goes. But saying that McD and the team can't develop talent, seems to ignore how much they got out of Tre, Poyer, and Hyde last year or how Milano went from being a late round pick to a strong starter by year's end or how Dawkins was a 2nd round pick that afforded the team the ability to trade Glenn to move up and get Allen. 

 

I'm not saying I've agreed with ever decision or that I know for sure they can develop a QB or even have the mind for Offense that's needed. What I am saying is that it's WAAAAAY too early to make that kind of conclusion, especially when McD and his staff and Beane and his staff have already made the playoffs in their first year (regardless of how, they still had to be in a position to do that at the end of the year when no one, not even us fans, gave them a chance). 

 

Peterman was a poor choice, but McD had to be a man of his word and say that whomever earned that right, would get it. Then, Allen struggled in the Bengals game and Peterman - up to that point - was just lights out. Over 80% completion rate, 1 INT that bounced of Ivory's hands, multiple TDs and moving the Offense up and down the field. What happened? Well, I suppose we know definitively without question Nate is just not a Sunday QB, he's a great practice and scrimmage QB. I have a feeling, Allen will be the opposite and when the lights come on, the pressure bears down and the yards and games count, he'll shine. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's time to find out. 

[GunnerBill]

I am not throwing the towel in on McDermott or Beane. Safe to say I am higher on the former than the latter at the moment though.

[GG]

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I have no problem with people saying "I understand why the Bills made the choices they did even if they are not working out too well with hindsight." It is the "what other choice did they have?" narrative that riles me. More than maybe any other free agency period for Quarterbacks in recent history there WERE choices.

 

Realistically they didn't have too many choices in FA.  It was clear that they were looking for a bridge QB, so Keenum and Cousins were out.  They weren't trading for Smith.  That left Bradford who went for a crazy number given his injury history.  McCarron was the remaining safe choice.

 

Jets were in a totally different spot because they already had McCown and they knew they were picking a good prospect high up.  Bills were still sitting with the 12th & 22nd picks. 

[oldmanfan]

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And I get that..... but unless the guys they did spend their $$s on up their game hindsight will not be kind to the decisions they made.

Absolutely.  But also let's remember they have a multiyear plan to get this done, right? 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, GG said:

 

Realistically they didn't have too many choices in FA.  It was clear that they were looking for a bridge QB, so Keenum and Cousins were out.  They weren't trading for Smith.  That left Bradford who went for a crazy number given his injury history.  McCarron was the remaining safe choice.

 

Jets were in a totally different spot because they already had McCown and they knew they were picking a good prospect high up.  Bills were still sitting with the 12th & 22nd picks. 

 

McCown was a FA. The Jets had to re-sign him. And McCarron wasn't the safe choice. He was the cheap choice. A guy who has 5 pretty uninspiring starts in the league was never the safe choice. Keenum signed a bridge deal in Denver by the way. They had choices. Their decision was to spend as little on a FA vet QB as possible and McCarron was the cheapest choice. Cheapest, not safest.